Looks like Ireland's referendum on gay marriage is a Yes.

a reply to: boymonkey74


If it weren't for the Irish ATS would not even exist, and in saying that this decision does not surprise me in the least - nor should it anyone in any way affiliated with anyone or anything Irish.

For instance, my wife was born in Dublin and she constantly says to me of the Irish's impact on the planets culture and how much they have made their mark in every country since recorded history - "well someones got to go there and do all the bloody work".

She is the only human I am genuinely afraid of.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Happy news! And to quote Friedman:

"I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us!!"
LOL

Well done Ireland!

Ah its a great day for Ireland


A vote for the people by the people

Im so proud to be Irish

Part of my job some years ago involved daily communication talking to customers in Ireland. I have to say, it appears most following the Catholic religion there do so in a non practicing way and due to tradition than strong belief.

I am for gay people getting married and equality though not sure if there is any real point in forcing it in any religious sense.

Typically the Christian church (and most other religions) frown upon homosexuality, it is written in it's 'constitution' so attempts at changing that seems a bit backwards. Forcing 'acceptance' from religion isn't true acceptance and I don't believe in telling people how to think or feel.

Before any hordes of ''discrimination'' opinion shovers appear spouting their vitriol, don't bother, go read the words I wrote in this comment again instead of presuming.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: boymonkey74

I think that historically the main problem has been the Catholic Church. The recent outrage over the clergy raping children, has allowed many Irish people to see beyond the Church's influence and come to a more modern stance on many things.

This is happening world wide.

P

I don't think that's the cause, I think it's just natural social evolution.
People seem to imagine we're stuck in a static opinion on things, when we're really not. Opinions and attitudes change all the time, of course, and over the last couple of decades attitudes and opinions have moved on massively.

You'll also notice that there is a very clear generational divide on all of these issues. The older generations hate change and they want to cling to their backward views and force society to stick to what they know. The younger generations want to move things forward and create movement in the right direction, and they are coming out in their droves to make these things happen.

Much of this social progress has been driven by information, the development of the Internet and the ability for billions of people to now see new opinions and attitudes has led to a massive decline in religious belief, and a massive increase in the desire for equality and democracy the world over. We've seen similar things in the push for democracy in other countries, leading to revolutions - predominantly driven by the young, Internet-connected generations.

Religion is on the decline thanks to the Internet and the wealth of information young people now have access to.

Gone are the days when a preacher could dictate his opinions as fact to a closed community in a rural village. People can just go on-line and see a variety of views and opinions, and the most reasonable and logical arguments will always win out in the end.

No one can genuinely ague against what is just and fair, and that's why we're going to see an Internet-led global revolution in the coming decades as more and more young people around the world fight for their rights, and the rights of their fellow citizens.

The most important things we can all do in the coming years is support the spread of the free Internet, and punish nations who go against the demands of their populations when they demand change.

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: gosseyn

... or it may have been as simple as a country holding a referendum to get the peoples opinion on a contentious matter.

In this case, the people rightly agreed that under the law, marriage should be available to any consenting adults, regardless of gender.

No, no... you're right... "They" are controlling everything!... it's a huge conspiracy to let gays marry, thusly undermining the social norms of society, leading to a breakdown in morals and increasing crime, so the powers that apparently run countries can instigate even greater measures of control, causing civil unrest and religious disharmony, creating an atmosphere of war, all to fuel their aim of transcendence through black arts, using the energy of the deaths of millions through suffering and war!!! It's all been planned!!!... Mwahaahaaa...

Much more likely.

I dont think that is what he was saying at all. You just had a knee jerk reaction.

I 100 percent support marriage equality and have seen the torture first hand of family having to live as second class citizens. But,...in a way what he said is right. Its not unusual for the powers that be to let people have half wins and to placate the masses.

In the US it isnt constitutional to have marriage inequality and i assume that is what the supreme court will rule. Its also religeous intollerance seeing as not every culture or religeon defines marriage the same as abrahamic faiths. It shouldnt need to come to a popular vote to give someone their civil rights.

It will be a good day when the gay community completely desolves and they are just looked at as everyother person. No special clothes or pins or haircuts, flags or banners. Its a result of fighting for your rights and needing to stand up for yourself and others. However it also is a trap. Your in the "gay" group or the latino group or black group. All of those circumstances use phrases like gay rights, black rights, latino rights etc and have laws and movements towards them. In reality they are all the same human rights. Chalking them into their racial or sex oriented boxes is not full progress. Full progress is when my kids dont even know those boxes exist, meaning everyone has the same rights. Putting us in the boxes just keeps us divided into groups.

Its much easier for politicians to deal with groups they can count on having certain beliefs. If we are all individuals then it becomes much harder to pander.

The first step is to get basic human rights. The next step is the hard one that often fails. That is true acceptence and assimilation. I have taught my children there is no gay, or black, or latino, or white issues. That there are human rights issues and there are traps within those issues that want to make sure we all stay in our defined gender/racial/sexual orientation. But real change is seeing someone as the person they are not what box they have been assigned.

For instance my son once told me a game was anti gay because the bad guy was gay. I asked him if there are no gay bad guys and he was a little stumped. Sometimes when you are fighting for your life you think everything is a fight but it ultimately dismantels the movement. Like che for instance he changed and became a psychopath because of the fight. The fight changed him into an entirely different person and not for the better.
Enlightement and reason need to constantly be examined or the fight doesnt win what you originally wanted it to.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Typically the Christian church (and most other religions) frown upon homosexuality, it is written in it's 'constitution' so attempts at changing that seems a bit backwards. Forcing 'acceptance' from religion isn't true acceptance and I don't believe in telling people how to think or feel.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
No Christian, Catholic, Muslim or any other person of any other faith is going to be forced to marry someone of the same sex, nor be forced to perform any marriage ceremony.

LGBT people do not want nor expect "acceptance" from the religious bigots, what we demand is that they give up their imagined authority to refuse to "accept" others. It's arrogant in the extreme to even suggest that we need to be "accepted".

No one has the right to presume I need or want their "acceptance", any more than I think I should "accept" the religious nutters and their beliefs.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Part of my job some years ago involved daily communication talking to customers in Ireland. I have to say, it appears most following the Catholic religion there do so in a non practicing way and due to tradition than strong belief.

I am for gay people getting married and equality though not sure if there is any real point in forcing it in any religious sense.

Typically the Christian church (and most other religions) frown upon homosexuality, it is written in it's 'constitution' so attempts at changing that seems a bit backwards. Forcing 'acceptance' from religion isn't true acceptance and I don't believe in telling people how to think or feel.

Before any hordes of ''discrimination'' opinion shovers appear spouting their vitriol, don't bother, go read the words I wrote in this comment again instead of presuming.

Just want to point out and not defend but point out the seemingly antigay stance of many religions is about controlling desire. Sex is often presented by the abrahamic faiths as for procreation and not really pleasure. Its ultimate goal is children. Sex outside of marriage is also frowned apon and it is also for this reason. Back before birth control, controlling your desire was the easiest way to control the ill effects of large populations producing children without fathers. Homosexuality was seen as lustful and sin sex was not for procreation.

Some religeons welcome sex as pleasure and some animism and tribal faiths have same sex marriage to control population, or just because it was natural. In tibet for instance two men can marry one women because the thought of infanticide as population control was unbearable to them. Two me can only produce one baby at a time (i guess twins is the exception) but multiple women and one man can produce multiple babies (which some evangelical minded faiths do to produce more of their religeon). Some Native american culture also had tollerence of homosexuality.

When my son asked me why people are gay i told him for all kinds of reasons. Some people are born that way, some people only see the individual and can love anybody, some people were deeply scarred by the opposite sex at an early age. I grew up with a gay family member so i really was lucky to have that lesson in my life early and not become such an ignorant person.

a reply to: MysterX
WE NEVER WERE STUPID, but when an imperial power takes away your language your culture, makes the playing of traditional music,and reciting of folk tales a crime give jobs and education to protestants ( I have nothing against protestant, or christians Im a pagan) then have millions emigrate or die in a potato famine because the british empire takes away all other crops to feed its army and navy maybe you might come across as stupid, but lets see your race go through all of this and then have people like you think you are stupid just because you never had the chance of an education

a reply to: Rocker2013

As I said, stop reading things out of contexts as an attempt at accusation and attack.

If gay marriages aren't accepted by religion but are in a legal context by non religious means, is there any point in forcing it as a religious issue?

a reply to: luthier

As I said, if religion disagree but marriage is possible by other non religious ways then doesn't it make sense to not try joining a marriage union under a belief system to which you do not agree?

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yes... the message is that these people have a mental disorder!

They should be in Mental Institutions!

Anything else and they would be...

Really don't know why the media keep portraying them as 'Normal' when they are anything but...

Talking from a Psychological standpoint of course.

maybe... just maybe, if the Media stopped reporting this as being Normal, they might go see a Doctor instead of thinking to themselves that they are normal and straight people aren't.

Well done Ireland!

Im very proud of the Irish !

Wow!

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Yes of course.

Obviously, there are people in Ireland who have much more between the ears than some people in this thread do. Popular vote, people. In a CATHOLIC country. That should tell you something important. Maybe Americans should look to the Irish for tips on how to be better christians, eh?

I was concerned about the influence on our (USA) USSC decision on marriage equality.

This is a very positive influence.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: boymonkey74

Yes... the message is that these people have a mental disorder!

They should be in Mental Institutions!

Anything else and they would be...

Really don't know why the media keep portraying them as 'Normal' when they are anything but...

Talking from a Psychological standpoint of course.

maybe... just maybe, if the Media stopped reporting this as being Normal, they might go see a Doctor instead of thinking to themselves that they are normal and straight people aren't.

'Course they're not going to the doctors! They like shagging people of the same sex, why would they go to the doctor to "cure" something they like doing?

Even if they are screwed up in the head, big deal, they're not hurting anyone - and many of them go on to be productive members of society.

I'm glad about them getting the right to marriage, at least they'll stop going on about it.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Rocker2013

As I said, stop reading things out of contexts as an attempt at accusation and attack.

If gay marriages aren't accepted by religion but are in a legal context by non religious means, is there any point in forcing it as a religious issue?

I didn't read anything out of context, you stated in your comment that you believe religious people should not be "forced" to "accept" same sex marriage.

You then added, as a means to preemptively avoid debate on your point, the suggestion that anyone disagreeing with you has misread.

I haven't misunderstood you at all, you said what you said, then you tried to prevent debate by suggesting anyone challenging your point has misunderstood you.