Olympia Wash. cop shoots 2 unarmed men in chest for shoplifting beer at safeway

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
How did they emerge. Not enough info to say either way, and it's possible the cop should be tried, but either way I won't shed a tear over criminals. It's the innocent people we should focus on.

Eh, maybe. I'm not sure beer theft rises to "kill em all", especially with teens. I grant you, "here, eat this skateboard" is not acceptable, however, a skateboard is a one-user weapon, so unless both of them were on you I'm not sure how you justify it.

That said, I could easily see ways it could go either way, so with no video, who can say? I can't clearly envision a scenario wherein someone comes out of the woods waving a skateboard and runs some distance to you slashing away with the board of death, you plug them, then another one comes out and you have to shoot them too, and have no options on either one. But I wasn't there.

However, I myself have done petty mischief that was misinterpreted by the local gendarmerie, and rather than hang around to explain, I unassed the area along with all my troublemaking friends. And in the midst of the departure, "Stop or I'll shoot" was stated, and he sort of pointed his sidearm my way, and I decided he likely was being more pro-forma than literal and resumed my unassing of the AO at top speed, which for me isn't all that fast.

So he likely had time to get a nice shot off, as I was going up the stairs he had a nice sightline and being big and short-legged, I'm sure I gave him a nice target for the last few steps.

Luckily for me, he didn't see the need to actually plug me. And truthfully, what he likely assumed was a bag of narcotics was a big ziplock with our watches, keys and wallets we were trying to keep dry. Not that it would have checked up most Phenix City cops. Fate must have delivered me a nice one.

That to say, not everyone running from cops deserves being shot.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I believe they threw the beer at employees making it assault.

But not battery, unless they hit them with it.

originally posted by: Bedlam

Eh, maybe. I'm not sure beer theft rises to "kill em all", especially with teens. I grant you, "here, eat this skateboard" is not acceptable, however, a skateboard is a one-user weapon, so unless both of them were on you I'm not sure how you justify it.

I stated the cop very well may be in the wrong.

That said, I could easily see ways it could go either way, so with no video, who can say? I can't clearly envision a scenario wherein someone comes out of the woods waving a skateboard and runs some distance to you slashing away with the board of death, you plug them, then another one comes out and you have to shoot them too, and have no options on either one. But I wasn't there.

Yes not enough info.

However, I myself have done petty mischief that was misinterpreted by the local gendarmerie, and rather than hang around to explain, I unassed the area along with all my troublemaking friends. And in the midst of the departure, "Stop or I'll shoot" was stated, and he sort of pointed his sidearm my way, and I decided he likely was being more pro-forma than literal and resumed my unassing of the AO at top speed, which for me isn't all that fast.

So he likely had time to get a nice shot off, as I was going up the stairs he had a nice sightline and being big and short-legged, I'm sure I gave him a nice target for the last few steps.

Luckily for me, he didn't see the need to actually plug me. And truthfully, what he likely assumed was a bag of narcotics was a big ziplock with our watches, keys and wallets we were trying to keep dry. Not that it would have checked up most Phenix City cops. Fate must have delivered me a nice one.

That to say, not everyone running from cops deserves being shot.

Glad you were not shot. I agree, they don't. But I am still not going to waste my time crying over criminals, especially when there are enough cases of innocent people people hurt/killed by police.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I believe they threw the beer at employees making it assault.

But not battery, unless they hit them with it.

Haha yes. ADW is a felony though, not misdemeanor.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I believe they threw the beer at employees making it assault.

But not battery, unless they hit them with it.

Haha yes. ADW is a felony though, not misdemeanor.

It would only rise to being a deadly weapon if it was something like malt liquor, or Milwaukee's Best, Bud Light or something similar.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I believe they threw the beer at employees making it assault.

But not battery, unless they hit them with it.

Haha yes. ADW is a felony though, not misdemeanor.

It would only rise to being a deadly weapon if it was something like malt liquor, or Milwaukee's Best, Bud Light or something similar.

If it was bud light and any got in their mouths then that is attempted murder possibly.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

If it was bud light and any got in their mouths then that is attempted murder possibly.

Colt 45, works every time.

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: rossacus

You went wrong by thinking that armed robbery means you have to use a weapon.

You don't.

All you have to do is threaten to use it.

"Empty your drawer in a bag or I will use this skateboard to bash your face in." Congrats, there's your armed robbery charge. That's "charge" and not "conviction" since any lawyer will argue about that point all day long.

Are you intentionally trying to derail the thread? Why are you so stuck on the definition of terms? It is what it is. Whether you agree with it or not is immaterial, unless you happen to be a legislator or a SCOTUS Justice. Why are you now trying to go off about armed robbery?

Please highlight where your continued derailment about armed robbery pertains to the OP. Or start your own thread about legal definitions.

I can't believe that you think the problem and argument is whether the suspect was armed or not; the US supreme court ruled "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others." This case abolished the Fleeing felon rule where a fleeing felon who posed no immediate threat to society (e.g., a burglar) could be shot if he/she refused to halt.

Robert C. Ankony, "Sociological and Criminological Theory: Brief of Theorists, Theories, and Terms," CFM Research, July 2012, page 37

Besides, Should a "suspect' be executed at all when they are not posing threat of grave danger to others or the officer? Aren't our police trained to defend themselves and to subdue others? Is the use of deadly force the first choice of LE and should it be?

Think of how absurd it sounds for someone to say they actually thought they were going to be murdered with a skateboard. How lame.

I can't believe you got any of that out of an explanation of the definition of terms. What you have essentially just done is look at the definition of "pancakes" and then gone on a rant about how it means something about Neptune's atmosphere. Nothing I said can be construed as "yep, cop was justified in shooting these two dudes."

Well don't expect too much protest Olympia is really an out of the way place and as I recall the weather scuks this time of the year. Maybe they should move the riots to LA lots more to do and see there in the off hours.

2 More aggressive thugs off the streets.

First they will wipe black people and when white turn comes on it will be done in a day.

But why don't they shoot people in arms or legs?

Like if u have gun, shoot in head. If you have knife shoot in leg, I doubt anyone can do any harm with knife with bullets in legs.

Any shooting someone in chest for swinging a skateboard don't hold a water to me. There was something more or officer want to kill them.

originally posted by: saadad
First they will wipe black people and when white turn comes on it will be done in a day.

But why don't they shoot people in arms or legs?

You don't do that. That's a TV or movie thing. If it gets down to shootin', you are going to have an adrenaline rush the likes of which you have likely never had. The best thing is to go for center mass, if you are going to shoot. Shooting guns out of hands, knee capping, and what not could only be done by some ice-blooded Spock sort of guy.

I have no issue with center mass shots, my question is whether there wasn't something else to do, but in this case, I'm not sure how it played out. Too many variables.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Your title is misleading, I would not describe them as unarmed.

Well all they had were skateboards.

A pencil can be used as a weapon.

Well anyone that shoots someone because they are scared of a pencil is a gigantic pussy.

mate I've seen someone stabbed in the throat with a pencil, it's not pretty, it's nasty, it's messy, it sounds loud and bad when the victim is choking on thier blood. the worse thing is you dont know it's happened until it has.
So i would bet my bottom dollar mate if i was about to stab you in the throat with a nicely sharpened HB and you had a 9mml, you would use it, I sure as hell would on you in fact I would double tap!

Can't they afford tasers in WA?

originally posted by: saadad
First they will wipe black people and when white turn comes on it will be done in a day.

But why don't they shoot people in arms or legs?

Like if u have gun, shoot in head. If you have knife shoot in leg, I doubt anyone can do any harm with knife with bullets in legs.

Any shooting someone in chest for swinging a skateboard don't hold a water to me. There was something more or officer want to kill them.

Stop using movies as your barometer for life. Real world shooting doesn't work that way. In fact, there's at least one thread here on that very topic.

originally posted by: Cuervo
So far, is the cop the only person claiming he was attacked with a skateboard? Do any witnesses or dashcams back this up?

I mean... if this doesn't go to trial, does that mean you can shoot any two random skaters in a park without witnesses and not be indicted?

That's the point...we all need to wait for some decent evidence before jumping to conclusions.

As for your last question: No. When someone is assaulting someone with their fists and they get shot and killed (within the law) in self defense by the victim of the fist assault, that doesn't mean that we can just shoot random people with fists without witnesses and not be indicted (well, depending on the evidence, of course, but in general, no).

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Your title is misleading, I would not describe them as unarmed.

Well all they had were skateboards.

A pencil can be used as a weapon.

Well anyone that shoots someone because they are scared of a pencil is a gigantic pussy.

Pencils are all fun and games until someone loses a eye.

Tell me would you have shot Joe Pesci in this scene if you had a gun?

If you take the position that this was from a movie. You are also taking the position that it's never happened in the real world.

Not a good example lol, because if Joe Pesci had a pencil and I had a gun I would holster my gun and beat his little ass to a bloody pulp and let him keep his damm pencil.

a reply to: rossacus

At this point if you have arms as in right arm/ left arm attached to your shoulders the police consider you 'armed'.
That is how fast and loose they are with their description of being an armed threat.

a reply to: VforVendettea

Ask the man from this article if a skateboard is a weapon... though, I don't think he'll be able to answer. His jaw looks to be wired shut.

Suspects Sought After Man Badly Beaten by Skateboarders at Santa Clarita Park

Jacob was struck in the head and face multiple times by assailant(s) wielding skateboards, investigators said.

He suffered a fractured jaw, requiring multiple surgeries, the release stated.

When I read this in the news, I could not hold a laugh, why? because now it seems that police can still shot as long as they don't kill, that will be the trend now a days.

Suspicion of trying to steal, follow by the pursue of the perpetrators that while they were not armed with deadly weapons like a gun, the officer acted on instinct and felt that a skateboard was good enough reason to shot because he felt his life was in danger.

Sorry but is sound like the officer was full of crap, but is ok, nobody died.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Your title is misleading, I would not describe them as unarmed.

Well all they had were skateboards.

Allow me to stab you in the neck with one, then we'll talk.