WWII 'Alternate' Scenarios...

Hi Everyone,

Saw an interesting article today about 10 possible different turns World War 2 could have taken,

Here

Its an interesting read and quite mind blowing to think what may have been!

How realistic or even possible, is another matter...

a reply to: ukmicky1980

If Hitler had secured england before turning on Russia....

Or if the Japanese hadn't attacked pearl harbor.

If mousseline wasn't a complete idiot.

I can think of a lot of different scenarios.

One of the biggest though is the battle of Stalingrad.

If Hitler had let his army just go past it they would have probably taken Moscow and ended the Russian threat before winter hit.

SnF

a reply to: ukmicky1980

If Germany won the war they'd rule Europe and if Germany didn't win the war they'd end up ruling Europe.

a reply to: ukmicky1980

In Henry Turtledove the War that came Early it shows what happens when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938 with military power rather than through peaceful annexation.

The Point of divergence is that Conrad Heinlein leader of the Sudetenland Germans was assassinated causing Hitler to use that as an excuse to attack Czechoslovakia militarily.

From what I remember here what would have happened:

Czechoslovakia would fight back and France and Britain would have been involved reluctantly.

The Soviet Union gave out air support to the Czechoslovak forces.

Czechoslovakia eventually fell and was attached to the Third Reich.

Meanwhile strangely Poland join the side of the Germans in response to Soviet incursions causing the Eastern Front to start much earlier. (Actually before 1939 Germany and Poland have an alliance treaty)

With France and Britain at war with Germany due to the German invasion of Czechoslovakia, it opened up the Western Front at the same time.

With the Spanish Civil War still raging on, it got sucked up to the larger European conflict and Spanish Nationalist forces invaded Gibraltar while France supported the Republicans with supplies and air support.

Because the war started in 1938 German forces was not as strong as it was had it invaded Poland in 1939.

France wasn't completely taken over by Germany due to the war becoming another repeat of World War 1 since Germany ended up fighting two fronts at the same time and Germany's advances got bogged down.

Because of this disaster the July Plot happened much earlier in 1941 because some of the German Generals were fed up by Hitler's disastrous war. However the plot failed and Hitler purged them. As the war rages on another July Plot happened. This time not only does Hitler purges the conspirators but also purged those suspected of being involved even if they are innocent.

There's more but read the book series the War that came Early by Henry Turtledove if you want to understand it.

originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: ukmicky1980

If Germany won the war they'd rule Europe and
if Germany didn't win the war they'd end up ruling Europe.

The difference is the creation of the State of Israel
and war reparations that continue to this day.

Germany continues to build Dolphin class boats for Israel, with the next one due to arrive in 2015 and the last one in 2019. The first three arrived in 1998-2000. The second three Dolphins cost about $650 million each, with Germany picking up a third of the cost on two of them. The first two Dolphins were paid for by Germany, as was most of the cost of the third one. This is more of German reparations for World War II atrocities against Jews.
www.strategypage.com...

more

Germany and Israel have significant and long-standing military cooperation. From 1959 to 1967 the Federal Republic of Germany was a significant supplier of military equipment and arms to Israel.[19] However, after 1965, when West Germany backed out of an agreement to sell tanks to Israel, the United States filled the order by selling 210 M48 Patton tanks. The Merkava 4, uses a German MTU MB 873 Ka-501 air-cooled diesel V12 engine produced under license. Germany has supplied Israel with Dolphin class submarines while Germany utilizes the Israeli-designed Spike Anti-Tank Missile. In 2008, it was revealed that Germany and Israel had been jointly developing a nuclear warning system, dubbed Operation Bluebird, in secret.
en.wikipedia.org...

As far as I can tell, this all traces back to The Balfour Declaration
which was when the British adopted the Rothchild agenda.

"Chaim Weizmann became Britain’s leading advocate of Zionism and played a crucial role in bringing about the Balfour Declaration. Together with Walter Rothschild... these few men managed to gain support of a slight majorty of British Jews as well as critical persons in the British government (for the creation of the State of Israel."
The Balfour Declaration - mepc.org...

"The initial draft of the declaration, contained in a letter sent by Rothschild to Balfour, referred to the principle "that Palestine should be reconstituted as the National Home of the Jewish people.".... The draft was circulated and during October the government received replies from various representatives of the Jewish community. Lord Rothschild took exception to the new proviso on the basis that it presupposed the possibility of a danger to non-Zionists, which he denied.' "
- en.wikipedia.org...

How about "not persecuting the Jews".

The NAZI persecution of the Jews led to many of the most advanced physicists in Germany leaving for the United States and England while they still could.

Germany had the most advanced theoretical physicists in the world in the late 1920's, their universities were widely regarded as the best schools in the World at the time.

Einstein would have been working for Germany instead of for the US Manhattan Project, and it would have been very likely that Germany would have gotten the atomic bomb years before the United States.

They would have used it on London and Moscow right away. Their rocket program, while very advanced, would have been even more advanced than it was with input from Jewish scientists who fled.

At the end of the war, plans for a transatlantic capable V3 rocket were found. It was these plans that eventually led to the Saturn V program that took astronauts to The Moon.

With a nuclear warhead attached, it would have been likely that New York and Washington would have been hit as soon as they were capable.

Both their Rocket program and Nuclear program would have been way more advanced than the equivalent programs in the USA.

Biggest turning point for the entire war?

Alan Turing realizing that the Germans used "Heil Hitler" in every message that they sent, making Enigma that much easier to crack.

Winston Churchill called Alan Turing "the single individual more responsible for ending the war than any other".

Without "Heil Hitler", the Brits never would have cracked Enigma, and the convoys that saved England never would have gotten through.

a reply to: wasaka

So sorry we gassed and massacred your people now let me build a neat war submarine that has bad ass torpedos. Say wut

The US and Germany secretly Ally.

Germany left to fall and The third Reich is born again under the guise of "freedom and democracy"

Oh, wait....

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Damnit brother, I start growing more inclined to you, then you call us Nazis what gives lol

Well, Sealion was never going to happen. I hate it when people bring it up. The logistics and practical realities made it highly unlikely that they would have succeeded.

EDIT: And a Nazi bomb was impossible. The Nazis rejected the science behind it as "Jewish physics" - which shows that they knew nothing about Albert Einstein.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Damnit brother, I start growing more inclined to you, then you call us Nazis what gives lol

Jesus. I'm not calling Americans Nazi's. Those in control of her media and policy making however...

It was meant for another topic. A cheap jab. My apologies.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Just giving you a hard time brother, rock on the man sucks we agree,

originally posted by: babybunnies
Biggest turning point for the entire war?

Alan Turing realizing that the Germans used "Heil Hitler" in every message that they sent, making Enigma that much easier to crack.

Winston Churchill called Alan Turing "the single individual more responsible for ending the war than any other".

Without "Heil Hitler", the Brits never would have cracked Enigma, and the convoys that saved England never would have gotten through.

Exactly right. www.pbs.org...

If you want to imagine the world in which Alan Turing was never born, then read "The Man in the High Tower." It is an alternate history novel by American writer Philip K. Dick. The novel is set in 1962, fifteen years after the end of a fictional longer Second World War.

What if the Nazis had won? That's the chilling premise of "The Man in the High Castle", based on a novel by Philip K. Dick, which became Amazon's most-watched pilot ever and will now be expanded into a full series to be shown online.
www.cnet.com...

Amazon and Netflix can now cut out the middleman of network television to ask the viewer directly what they want to see, without having to worry about nervous advertisers or other broadcast TV constraints. The only problem, now I have to wait a year to watch the next episode.

a reply to: babybunnies

Einstein would have been working for Germany instead of for the US Manhattan Project, and it would have been very likely that Germany would have gotten the atomic bomb years before the United States.

Britain had the most advanced nuclear research before and during the war. Einstein staying in Germany would have made no difference to the development of the bomb. They where years behind Britain.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: babybunnies

Einstein would have been working for Germany instead of for the US Manhattan Project, and it would have been very likely that Germany would have gotten the atomic bomb years before the United States.

Britain had the most advanced nuclear research before and during the war. Einstein staying in Germany would have made no difference to the development of the bomb. They where years behind Britain.

Tube Alloys! Sadly we needed a lot more money.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes. The secret nuclear project code named " Tube Alloys", which was for the development of plutonium.

The Nazi's where looking to use hydrogen from heavy water.

a reply to: alldaylong

Without America there would have been no bomb, we created gravity, we created God, we created popcorn, wet t shirt contests. Pretty much anything good we are responsibly for creating , we probably inadvertently created light and time. Everything you created was seconded hand and copyed from our genius think tanks and military strategist.

a reply to: DAZ21

Germany didn't win the war they'd end up ruling Europe.

Well they rule it financially. Pity they get to pay for the rest of Europes debt because of generational "Nazi" guilt without the benefit of actual control over the rest of Europe. Imagine another 20-30 European nations displaying German ingenuity in technology. We'd be probably be colonizing Mars by now.