Unworthy victims: Western wars have killed four million Muslims since 1990

I'm not sure where they get their numbers from...

This site has been counting for a very long time.

Body Count

I think the people of the west have been manipulated by government and mainstream media into believing there's nothing wrong in what our military have done.
The people in Africa and the Middle East must hate us.

I don't know how they have got away with it. I'm sure if Russia or China would have invaded and occupied these countries, the United Nations would be in uproar.
I think the mainstream media have been just as guilty in this continuing act of terrorism against Muslims as the U.S. And its allies.

I think most people believe Iraq and Afghanistan had something to do with 9/11 and they just accept that our military are going into all these countries to go after al Qaeda and Isis.

'War is foreign policy by other means' no idea who coined that phrase, but I think it's apt. as for how many have died, there will never be an accurate count.
Numbers, a quote from Uncle Joe " one death is a tragedy, a million is just a number"
'Uncle Joe' ? what Americans called Josef Stalin in the early 1940's, the guy who signed off on 20,000,000 deaths of his own people.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Don't expect majority of Americans to care though.

Mindless immoral drones.

So lets find out if Karma exist...

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

Last month, the Washington DC-based Physicians for Social Responsibility (PRS) released a landmark study concluding that the death toll from 10 years of the “War on Terror” since the 9/11 attacks is at least 1.3 million, and could be as high as 2 million.

The 97-page report by the Nobel Peace Prize-winning doctors’ group is the first to tally up the total number of civilian casualties from US-led counter-terrorism interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Just thinking, the U.S. should have named it ''War of Terror'', more accurate imo. Here's a brief synopsis on the 2 main countries:

Iraq

This means that in Iraq alone, the US-led war from 1991 to 2003 killed 1.9 million Iraqis; then from 2003 onwards around 1 million: totalling just under 3 million Iraqis dead over two decades.

Afghanistan

In a 2001 National Academy of Sciences report, Forced Migration and Mortality, leading epidemiologist Steven Hansch, a director of Relief International, noted that total excess mortality in Afghanistan due to the indirect impacts of war through the 1990s could be anywhere between 200,000 and 2 million. The Soviet Union, of course, also bore responsibility for its role in devastating civilian infrastructure, thus paving the way for these deaths.

Altogether, this suggests that the total Afghan death toll due to the direct and indirect impacts of US-led intervention since the early nineties until now could be as high 3-5 million.

In regards to this report, you also shouldn't expect to see it plastered all over your 5 corporate owned media outlets:

The 97-page report by the Nobel Peace Prize-winning doctors’ group is the first to tally up the total number of civilian casualties from US-led counter-terrorism interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Yet it has been almost completely blacked out by the English-language media, despite being the first effort by a world-leading public health organisation to produce a scientifically robust calculation of the number of people killed by the US-UK-led “war on terror”.

I tend to agree with the final point of the article:

Much of this death has been justified in the context of fighting tyranny and terrorism. Yet thanks to the silence of the wider media, most people have no idea of the true scale of protracted terror wrought in their name by US and UK tyranny in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The excuses for starting this ''War on Terror'' were flimsy at best, 9/11 OS is laughable & Iraq was just a comedy sketch using Iraqi civilians as the dead extras. It's a lie & no matter which country of the west you live in, you should be very afraid of what your government is truly capable of, you could be next.

www.middleeasteye.net...

Yup, but to hear the rabid sheeple, Muslims are so violent and "dem terirists" be evil! Why, they hate our freedoms!!!! We are such victims...

There are plenty of ATS threads to this effect.

This is why i can't stand such people. Are terrorists bad? Yes. Should they be stopped? yes. Have western "Christian" majority countries caused FAR more deaths in and oppressed far more more Muslim countries than vice versa? YES BY FAR.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Have the hostile intended targets been seperated from that particular number?

This is a fair point, but even for civilians Iraq War II caused something like 200,000 deaths, which is a lot. Considering that the war had nothing to do with 911 and can be shown to have been executed for questionable reasons, this number becomes the number of war crimes. Remember that a "war of aggression" is an actual war crime.

www.iraqbodycount.org...

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Only 1.3 million? Muslims are much, much better at killing other Muslims. The Iran-Iraq war alone saw over one million killed! Then there's the "civil war" in Yemen, over two thousand killed just this past year. (The conflict has actually been going on for centuries.) Then let's consider DaEsh (IS). They have only just started murdering their fellow Muslims, but what they lack in volume, they more than make up in savagery.

Mind you, I am not defending America's illegal invasion of Iraq, or cowardly use of drones in a misguided policy of waging war by assassination. I am doing what I can to stop that madness. As for you haters, rather than blame everyone else, you need to get your own house in order.

a reply to: pikestaff

'War is foreign policy by other means' no idea who coined that phrase,

Point of information: Carl von Clausewitz.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie, war is just what happens when politicians fail at their jobs.

Eh, that may be true in a few circumstances. But the reality is that the elite simply don't want peace. They want geo-political hegemony at any costs.

Western elite: "Give us control of the Middle East and let us control global resources."

Small, weaker countries: "Sorry that isn't fair and not we cannot do that."

Western leaders and media:" They be terrorists and hate our freedums!!! Let's attack them and regime change them!"

This, is what the reality is.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I also wish to say how it sickens us to see this mess.
UNLIKE those who don't fight ,WE bear the guilt of these oligrarch's choices PERSONALLY all our lives.
Which is why some choose to kill themselves rather than face the horror of what their government has made them do in the name of America.
ALL OF US should BE AMAZED we haven't had a coup.
I THINK we may be over due.

a reply to: DJW001

War is the final and largest error of mankind.
Cavtrooper 7: ATS
5,12,15

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I also wish to say how it sickens us to see this mess.
UNLIKE those who don't fight ,WE bear the guilt of these oligrarch's choices PERSONALLY all our lives.
Which is why some choose to kill themselves rather than face the horror of what their government has made them do in the name of America.
ALL OF US should BE AMAZED we haven't had a coup.
I THINK we may be over due.

Yeah, I used to blame soldiers. But then I realized that most have good intentions and were lied to by the media/government just like the rest of us.

That's why I sincerely hold that contrary to the media's statements, my anti-war stance is truly "supporting the troops." Those who lie to them about the reasons for war and send them to maim or kill or themselves be hurt don't support them. They are using them.

I don't care what the REAL number of Muslims killed by America is. It SHOULD be 0.

originally posted by: andy1972
i have 2 questions -

I'd like to know why you put "Muslims" in the title and not people, as they are people first and Muslims afterward, why not put simply 4 million people?

Secondly, have you done it to make people think they were killed "because" they were Muslim?
Are you trying to say that the USA eliminated them in a religous genocide?

Well, look at the source article called Middle East Eye and the author whose name is Nafeez Ahmed. Of course there will be a skewed slant towards cultural/religion rather than focus as people first. I guess there's different degrees of what's considered religious genocide. This article states 4mil Muslims have been killed out of a worldwide over this time population of @ 1.1 bil. During the Holocaust 6 mil out of a worldwide population of @ 18 mil Jews were killed at the time.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't understand your position, are you suggesting we haven't got any threat to defend against ,AT ALL, from any faction of Islam?
The people I Speak of are rather OBVIOUS in their intent and CLAER evidence show their villiany, TO THEIR OWN AS WELL.
They are CLAMORING for us to return to lead them as well as to fight and die against the Jihadists, so they don't have to as we speak.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Yes I do. There is no reason for us to be in the Middle East. We only make the situation worse when we walk in, wipe out the current crop of American haters, then leave only to have a new crop that is more violent than the last take over.

Until the terrorists in the Middle East can actually mount a continuous assault on US mainland, then I really don't care about them. I'll denounce their actions, but the countries in the area should take care of their own regional problems.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Yes I do. There is no reason for us to be in the Middle East. We only make the situation worse when we walk in, wipe out the current crop of American haters, then leave only to have a new crop that is more violent than the last take over.

Until the terrorists in the Middle East can actually mount a continuous assault on US mainland, then I really don't care about them. I'll denounce their actions, but the countries in the area should take care of their own regional problems.

Yep, the US created the current mess. We were preached to that Saddam and Khadaffi were brutal tyrants who threatened the rest of the world. True, they were tyrants who committed atrocities against their own people. But we made the situation 1000x worse since we decided to police the world and removed them from power. As bad as they were, Iraq and Libya were never the sh!tholes as they are today.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Exactly. Forcibly installing democracy because the government does things to its citizens we disapprove of is only going to breed MASSIVE resistance. We need to promote a PEACEFUL transition to democracy. I know that it is tough with a dictator, but look at China and Cuba. Both countries became Communist and totalitarian but now are slowly starting to become more open to their citizens (they haven't gotten as free as many countries in the west, but they are definitely making progress).

a reply to: UnBreakable

I see you have bought into the lie that the United States was responsible for the Libyan uprising. The United States had turned Qaddaffi into an asset, that's why the Islamists wanted him out.