Regarding Those Bright Spots on Ceres. . . WE WERE WRONG!

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: smurfy

True but the source is reflective regardless...

Reflective ice?
Reflective minerals?

...or maybe even reflective pieces of ancient spacecraft/reflective artificial structure of Ceres

Solar Collectors?

K~

a reply to: smurfy

Thank you But it is definitely reflective rather than shining with its own light source then? I wish I had a bigger screen to look at it with.

Maybe a big spacecraft dropped a bunch of chaffs after being intercepted...

No really weird I'm so curious what it could be...

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: smurfy

True but the source is reflective regardless...

Yes, that is exactly what we have been told as of now NASA can confirm it's a reflection, that's mostly what they thought to begin with, and with all the related speculations, (except maybe volcano/s) but again that's my point, they know more now, but speculate less, to the degree of saying they don't know what it is, or possibly ice? To me that's odd.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Thanks for the info Soylent, but if we're calling a spade a spade here, you, me and 99% of this website knows full well that if those bright spots are anything other than naturally occurring phenomena like ice geysers, frozen CO2 or just very reflective rocks...we'd never hear about it, and certainly not from NASA on anything approaching an official announcement.

SO really, the closer the probe gets and starts to send the hires images, is probably when we are told it's ice.

It's a little early yet to play the closed-minded reality-defiant "get-out-of-reality-free" card, don't you think?

See www.bbc.com... for even better views.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: smurfy

True but the source is reflective regardless...

Yes, that is exactly what we have been told as of now NASA can confirm it's a reflection, that's mostly what they thought to begin with, and with all the related speculations, (except maybe volcano/s) but again that's my point, they know more now, but speculate less, to the degree of saying they don't know what it is, or possibly ice? To me that's odd.

I'm not sure what you find odd. The preliminary observations seemed to indicate something reflective. Early guesses of what that "something" was ranged from ice to salts to a plume/geyser of water-ice. The plume hypothesis came from an early observation that it seemed to be in front of the crater rim, and also from the idea that Ceres could be offgassing, similar to what a comet does.

It seems now that it may not be a plume, but the Dawn spacecraft still isn't close enough to get a hi-resolution enough image (or other high-definition data collection) to help them determine what else it could be. So while the "plume" explanation seems unlikely, the other early potential explanations of ice, mineral salts, or other reflective mineral are still on the table.

This first orbit (which just ended on May 9) is still a very high orbit. There will be a lower orbit in June, but the really low orbits don't occur until later in the year -- the lowest orbit being achieved in December.

But other than the "plume" explanation becoming unlikely, nothing else has really changed. The other potential explanations discussed before are still in play, and probably will be until Dawn gets a closer look.

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Thanks for the info Soylent, but if we're calling a spade a spade here, you, me and 99% of this website knows full well that if those bright spots are anything other than naturally occurring phenomena like ice geysers, frozen CO2 or just very reflective rocks...we'd never hear about it, and certainly not from NASA on anything approaching an official announcement.

SO really, the closer the probe gets and starts to send the hires images, is probably when we are told it's ice.

It's a little early yet to play the closed-minded reality-defiant "get-out-of-reality-free" card, don't you think?

See www.bbc.com... for even better views.

It's never too early, Jim. NEVER!!!

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: smurfy

True but the source is reflective regardless...

Reflective ice?
Reflective minerals?

...or maybe even reflective pieces of ancient spacecraft/reflective artificial structure of Ceres

I would love it were something utterly unknown!

But I am betting on something very unique, but to an alien hunter boring...

"Dawn scientists can now conclude that the intense brightness of these spots is due to the reflection of sunlight by highly reflective material on the surface, possibly ice," said Chris Russell, who is the principal investigator on the mission.

originally posted by: Ross 54
A reflective, and light-colored surface, like ice, should register as colder than its surroundings. It would reflect more and absorb less solar energy than dark surfaces; basic physics. We're told that the bright spots are, in fact, the same temperature as their darker surroundings.

They did have IR results a month ago that showed 'spot one' was much cooler than the surroundings, 'spot 5' had the same temperature as the surroundings. So now we know there are series of 'spots' in the area designated 'spot one' and I suppose could be ice, or the Cryovolcano/s also talked about in the early stages, as below.

Chris Russell, principal investigator for the Dawn mission, then theorized:

"Ceres' bright spot can now be seen to have a companion of lesser brightness, but apparently in the same basin. This may be pointing to a volcano-like origin of the spots, but we will have to wait for better resolution before we can make such geologic interpretations."

So Chris Russell could still be right, even though the, ' companion of lesser brightness' area had the same temperature as the surroundings, and not colder.

a reply to: smurfy

isnt one of the reasons mercury is cooler than venus due to its reflective surface? that and lack of atmosphere?

originally posted by: 3n19m470
a reply to: smurfy

isnt one of the reasons mercury is cooler than venus due to its reflective surface? that and lack of atmosphere?

I would have thought mostly due to much less of an atmosphere, I don't know about Mercury's reflectiveness.

When are the next photos scheduled for release?

a reply to: raikata

It won't achieve its next planned science orbit until June 6 (the Survey Orbit, at 2700 miles), but I'm not sure if they plan to conduct any imaging between now and then, as it spirals down toward that new obit from the original 8400 mile RC3 orbit. The RC3 orbit was completed on May 9th.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: abeverage
a reply to: smurfy

True but the source is reflective regardless...

Yes, that is exactly what we have been told as of now NASA can confirm it's a reflection, that's mostly what they thought to begin with, and with all the related speculations, (except maybe volcano/s) but again that's my point, they know more now, but speculate less, to the degree of saying they don't know what it is, or possibly ice? To me that's odd.

I'm not sure what you find odd. The preliminary observations seemed to indicate something reflective. Early guesses of what that "something" was ranged from ice to salts to a plume/geyser of water-ice. The plume hypothesis came from an early observation that it seemed to be in front of the crater rim, and also from the idea that Ceres could be offgassing, similar to what a comet does.

It seems now that it may not be a plume, but the Dawn spacecraft still isn't close enough to get a hi-resolution enough image (or other high-definition data collection) to help them determine what else it could be. So while the "plume" explanation seems unlikely, the other early potential explanations of ice, mineral salts, or other reflective mineral are still on the table.

This first orbit (which just ended on May 9) is still a very high orbit. There will be a lower orbit in June, but the really low orbits don't occur until later in the year -- the lowest orbit being achieved in December.

But other than the "plume" explanation becoming unlikely, nothing else has really changed. The other potential explanations discussed before are still in play, and probably will be until Dawn gets a closer look.

I do find it odd, it didn't stop them discussing openly and at length in the early stages, even though they said it was speculation. Now we get this latest page, which discusses nothing other that not known or possibly ice. They could, as of now, speculate on why 'spot one' is cooler, I would have found that interesting to hear what they say, I would have thought that you too would find that interesting as they are the experts.

Look at sat picture of earth at night??....

It would be cool if Dawn discovers abandoned structures

a reply to: koperniguz

Abandoned? I hope not. They left a lot of lights on. That's gonna be 1 hefty power bill

It's reported that Dawn will take pictures twice as it spirals in to its next, closer-in orbit, which it is planned to assume on June 6th. If these picture sessions are equally spaced in time, they should occur at about 10 day intervals, on about May 16th and May 26th, with pictures available about 5 days after each of these dates.
The only justification, so far, for assuming the bright spots are reflective appears to be the observation that they dimmed as they turned away from the Sun. This could also be explained as a source of light turning its beam away from Dawn's camera as the planet rotated.
There were also at least two different instances in which the bright spots appeared to shine when there was no sunlight in their area. Elevated mounds and vapor plumes now appear to have been rendered very unlikely explanations for the bright spots. Arguing that such features caught very low angle sunlight from a high vantage point now seems unworkable.

Thank you both again.

Imho, if these spots were artificial in nature they'd have a surrounding infrastructure which we would have spotted by now I believe.