Stop hating Jesus, lets talk about mutual respect.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: tothetenthpower

I've not met a single person who is against religion, that is against Jesus.

Jesus was awesome. What most anti-religious folk wish is that people were more "Christ Like", instead of "Christian".

I'm an atheist, bordering agnostic, and I would never talk down about Jesus.

~Tenth

Why? He is one of the worst literary characters ever conceived. The only thing noble about him was that he could take a lickin'. But his "wisdom", his insight and dogmas were utterly tedious. I'll say it, I hate him.

I give you kudos for your honesty.

I respect your right to believe as you do.

Now do you respect my right to believe as I do? I certainly hope so.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: Ritter327
I greatly respect Jesus. He was clearly a great spiritual master to his followers.....
I think what is not respected is a widespread misconception by many Christians that they are somehow elite and the only ones worthy/capable of a life in God.

I completely disagree that Christians think they are elite and the only ones worthy/capable of a life in God.

We are taught that we all have made mistakes
We are taught that every human makes mistakes
We are taught that we are not perfect
We are taught that it is wrong to think we are perfect

Those are hard core basics of the Christian faith
to realize one is imperfect, has flaws
and will never, ever be perfect

We are taught to strive to love others as ourselves
we are taught to strive to give to the poor
we are taught to strive to care for the downtrodden

If we were not taught these things and believed these things
then we are not Christians because we would not need Jesus

Only the broken, the imperfect, the people who make mistakes and sometimes horrific mistakes in life need Jesus.

The people who think they are perfect, don't need Jesus, only the
unlovely, the strange, the imperfect need Jesus
Jesus challenges us to try and be better, but tells us quite clearly
we will never ever be perfect here on earth, we can only do
our flawed best, and ask for his help in being and doing better.

I will say this, Jesus has a horrible end game.

It's not very forgive thy neighbor and turn the other cheek.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I will say this, Jesus has a horrible end game.

It's not very forgive thy neighbor and turn the other cheek.

Guess not, but if you don't believe in Jesus or Christianity, then why should the end game bother you, it should be a "meh" reaction, who cares, strange to me, but why should I care, a myth doesn't affect me.

He also said, be wise as a serpent, but gentle as a dove.

I am gentle in my life, and a wise serpent (ie snake)
when it comes to defending Christian's right
to be allowed to believe as they wish and
not be marginalized and
treated with bigotry and prejudice for
simply holding an "unpopular set of myths", as many on this thread claim.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Bait and switch is exactly what you're doing!

The Bait & Switch:: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don’t try to respond, simply change the subject. Example..........
Stupid Debating Tricks

Propaganda and Debating Techniques

And, you're doing it again by arguing over it!

What I did was called semantics, not bait and switch.

No, what you did was try to cover every "enemy base" you could stuff into 3 posts, and spew hatred and ad-hominem attacks in an attempt to shame and distract people from criticizing Jesus and Christians.

Christianity IS an ideology. i·de·ol·o·gy
ˌīdēˈäləjē,ˌidēˈäləjē/
noun
1.
a system of ideas and ideals

There you go again, being intellectually dishonest.

]Christianityis an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion, based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament. Christianity is the world's largest religion, with about 2.4 billion adherents, known as Christians en.wikipedia.org...

Just because you don't think religions aren't ideologies doesn't negate the fact that they are.

Right.........That's why you folks can't agree among yourselves what "Christianity" is and means, let alone what Jesus really said or meant.

However, just because I am a Christian doesn't mean
I have to stand by and allow people to ridicule my faith.

So, what do you do? You throw around pejoratives and paint your opponents with such a broad brush that, surely, they will deny your accusations, because nobody can relate to the amount of hatred you're projecting. Your argument is lost in your own rage.

Why did you make this about you, anyway, and why do you think you have to take a stand and defend 2000 years of Christian corruption and lies? Who do you think you are?

You continue to make my point with every post you make, which is that Jesus makes a sucky role model!

a reply to: grandmakdw

I am meh about it.

I don't wish to take away anyone's right to believe in whatever they want.

I would like to see more people deconvert, for many reasons. It is one of the reasons I hang around and post in this particular forum. If I can say something that gets somebody questioning their faith, or help someone realize it's ok to question their faith, more power to them. I realize that perhaps from your perspective, this makes me devilish in a way, the enemy. No doubt I rock a few boats sometimes.

I do not broad-brush all Christians. I absolutely know people are individuals and are not always the same. Please understand it's, for the most part, Christianity I dislike. Individual Christians themselves I'll consider on a person by person basis. Like I do with anyone. I can't help if Christians themselves feel attacked when I argue against their religion or sometimes make lame jokes about it.

It's not meant to be personal.

Edit to add:

As far as religion goes, I feel pretty much the same about all of them.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: grandmakdw

Bait and switch is exactly what you're doing!

The Bait & Switch:: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don’t try to respond, simply change the subject. Example..........
Stupid Debating Tricks

Propaganda and Debating Techniques

And, you're doing it again by arguing over it!

What I did was called semantics, not bait and switch.

No, what you did was try to cover every "enemy base" you could stuff into 3 posts, and spew hatred and ad-hominem attacks in an attempt to shame and distract people from criticizing Jesus and Christians.

Christianity IS an ideology. i·de·ol·o·gy
ˌīdēˈäləjē,ˌidēˈäləjē/
noun
1.
a system of ideas and ideals

There you go again, being intellectually dishonest.

]Christianityis an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion, based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament. Christianity is the world's largest religion, with about 2.4 billion adherents, known as Christians en.wikipedia.org...

Just because you don't think religions aren't ideologies doesn't negate the fact that they are.

Right.........That's why you folks can't agree among yourselves what "Christianity" is and means, let alone what Jesus really said or meant.

However, just because I am a Christian doesn't mean
I have to stand by and allow people to ridicule my faith.

So, what do you do? You throw around pejoratives and paint your opponents with such a broad brush that, surely, they will deny your accusations, because nobody can relate to the amount of hatred you're projecting. Your argument is lost in your own rage.

Why did you make this about you, anyway, and why do you think you have to take a stand and defend 2000 years of corruption and lies? Who do you think you are?

You continue to make my point with every post you make, which is that Jesus makes a sucky role model!

Ok, believe the horrific bigoted prejudiced things you want to about Christians
the words "you folks" is reminiscent of the old south prejudice.

We will agree to disagree

Just don't advocate making someone lose their job or business or go to jail because they think differently than you do.

I think I am a Christian who is unafraid of standing up to the Christophobic and demanding the same respect you give to the LGBT and the poor generational welfare mother.

That you won't ever stop me from doing, I will fight prejudice and ugly bigotry until my last breath.

This Grandma is no whimp and never will be.

Your rage and intellectually challenged responses will never change my mind and I will never change yours.

So adios Bro!

a reply to: grandmakdw

Just don't advocate making someone lose their job or business or go to jail because they think differently than you do.

I don't know....that sounds pretty neo-liberal to me. But, I agree with your sentiment, and I also fought, against all the RFRAs that tried to legislate prejudice, bigotry and persecution.

I will fight prejudice and ugly bigotry until my last breath.

I can't tell if your fighting "for" or "against" those things. With modern Christians, it's unclear.

a reply to: Ritter327

I would disagree with your main theme of the Bible, but I would agree that it is a sub-theme

Look...I grew up atheist. I had family who were Christians. Didn't think much of God. I didn't want to think much of God because I wanted to enjoy my youth and not feel guilty, like anyone would,when you have standards to live by. People who are atheist choose to be for whatever their reasons are. It also doesn't help that humans, not a religion, have manipulated 'religion' to acquire wealth and power. To the point of torturing people and massacring many with religious wars. What most atheists don't realize, is that there are Chrostians who aren't hypocrites. Just not many. The majority are not good examples and blindly following the dictation a of a benefactor aka "leader/politician." But there are some Christians whom don't let the corruption of wealth and power deep into their being and make them hypocrites. But it's YOUR job to notice them. Jesus said you would notice by the 'fruits' they produce. But their honest imperfect mistakes. But by their sincerity and unmarred worship(false beliefs and politics). The rotten fruits are the group of Christians he describes that you WILL notice. But until anyone notices this obscure group of true followers, the agnostic/atheist community will continue to wad them all up (demnominations) into one group. Plus the lgbt community had been so abused by the mainstream extremist Christians that their passion spreads into the atheist/agnostic community and makes a bigger force against religion. But hopefully they will not pull a nazi Germany's and start sending everyone to concentratio, I mean fema camps. Hopefully they will be discerning.

I have no hate for the Jesus character.
He was the most likeable character in an otherwise boring book.

a reply to: Ritter327

I don't hate Jesus--it makes no sense to hate someone I don't even know who lived 2,000 years ago and quite possibly may not have even been the character that he is portrayed to be.

That's not hate.

I do respect the message attributed to him, though...the actual message, not the message of modern religions that follow him.

a reply to: Ritter327

Stop hating Jesus, lets talk about mutual respect.

So what that you think Jesus was just a man.

Ah but you don't believe Jesus existed at all.

If you don't believe in Jesus that is your right, but deep down some of you hate the very name Jesus. Ask yourself why, why do you feel this way.

I don't think a lack of belief in a thing is evidence of hate for said thing.