Alien conflicts

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: PlanetXisHERE
There is actually overwhelming evidence that aliens are visiting.

Yet the people making that claim are unable to produce this "overwhelming evidence"! Instead of evidence we get crap like:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

etc.

Why should those who know of alien visitation give you special treatment? We already have our proof from years and mountains of evidence, and most importantly, having the aptitude to understand and process that information.

Then you come along and make demands like you are the prince of enlightenment who must be satisfied in order to validate what others already have discovered. I'm afraid it is you who are left pushing the shopping cart full of dull thoughts and empty dreams.

Dump that cargo and give yourself a boost into truth by throwing away all that old indoctrination. It will never grant you anything except a big black void.

Don't take anyone's word for anything the way you do now. You have accepted the words coming from the side of indoctrination.

Those who know the truth right now have already dumped that old worthless cargo of disinformation, and have moved ahead by doing their own research which does not need to demand proof from anyone, but rather by looking and understanding from a neutral corner and starting all investigation and research from that new perspective, have gained the truth and at the same time have become "deprogrammed" from the PTB who have spent billions of dollars to keep you fettered to their shackles.

a reply to: JadeStar

And PLEASE and kindly let this be THE LAST TIME you, Scdfa or any other true believers on ATS accuse me of...

You stop accusing me of being a "believer". My knowledge comes through first hand direct contact with aliens.

I know aliens are here as a fact. I discuss this topic from a position of knowing, and it is you who argue for your "belief", that aliens are not here.

But this is the big flaw you reveal, when you say "no one knows". That's simply incorrect, anyone who has encountered aliens does in fact know they are really here.
But you can't admit that.

I doubt you can even admit that IF the aliens are here abducting people, THEN those people would KNOW aliens are here.
But that would be the case.

And that is the case.

I know aliens are really here. Me, and maybe a million people or more. You are guessing that aliens are not here. I'm not guessing. We come to this topic with vastly different levels of information.
You can choose to not "believe" it. More accurately, you can choose to not accept it.
But nothing you can do can ever change that, aliens are here, and abducting people.

Actually, you lost this argument before you were born. You lost it before I was born, and I'm old.

a reply to: Scdfa

You stop accusing me of being a "believer". My knowledge comes through first hand direct contact with aliens.

I know aliens are here as a fact. I discuss this topic from a position of knowing, and it is you who argue for your "belief", that aliens are not here.

To be fair to JadeStar, although you enjoy the certainty of your experience, not everyone has had a similar experience. For those of us who haven't, we have to suspend judgement. For many people, the absence of the experience leads them to conclude that 'no,' there are no aliens. That's not my conclusion at all, but it is how most people think.

Each of those opposing viewpoints rests on personal experience with neither holding any more subjective weight than the other. Does that make sense and is it a reasonable way of understanding the conflict between each side?

There may not always be a way around the conflict, but being more pleasant to each other makes the discussion more constructive. Although in saying that, it's been a long-held habit of the field to take distinct sides and then fling mud at all the others! Even when mud isn't flung, there's no escaping the fact that ufology has always been splintered into groups and they haven't always gotten along.

Vallee and Clark used to go at each other. NICAP and APRO squabbled. CSICOP bickered with anything 'woo.' It's inherent in the field and yet the best guys like Mike Swords, Sturrock, Vallee etc whistle along quietly without any arguing.

Personally, I enjoy reading many of your posts and especially the ones where you've made a good argument. Nevertheless I haven't seen or met any aliens and therefore have to suspend judgement on those who assert that they have. Isn't it fair and reasonable to hold doubts? I guess it's the way in which we express them that makes all the difference.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: JadeStar

Additionally, I have discussed and debated it with Stanton T. Friedman recently. He sent me 3 autographed books (one autographed by Betty Hill's niece, Kathleen Marden) as a result of our private email discussions:

I am glad you were able to engage him in a real discussion. Did you destroy him

.

I'll just say I was raised to respect and listen to (and hopefully learn something from) my elders, even if I disagree with them.

That said, there were a few things he and I agreed on and he joked about one my my mentors, Sara Seager saying she never met any scientist interested in UFOs and he replying "well you're talking with one."

While discussing Kepler I noted that Kepler was first proposed in the 1980s by William Borucki and it was rejected a total of 5 times before it was approved, developed, built and launched. He thanked me for that, he didn't know that and he told me that he might use in his "Science Was Wrong" lecture.

We mostly discussed science stuff avenues of research, interstellar travel concepts, and stuff which wasn't specific to most UFO cases. We talked mostly science with UFOs as a backdrop.

It actually restores some of my lost faith in him. That's good news.

He's a sharp thinker and a pretty good speaker/debater and i very much appreciated the autograph books he sent me. I think he was heartened and intrigued that someone my age had an interest in the subject while being firmly rooted in the scientific skeptic camp.

And of course, If I disagreed with you on some aspects of the Hill case, that wouldn't make us mortal enemies either resulting in you saying I shouldn't conceive or something, would it?

Of course. Just ask you know who....

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Why should those who know of alien visitation give you special treatment? We already have our proof from years and mountains of evidence, and most importantly, having the aptitude to understand and process that information.

I do see that all of you share one trait in particular.

originally posted by: JadeStar

The sad thing about David Jacobs was his creepy sessions with his "patients". A chastity belt? Really?

The last thing these victims of abuse needed was to be abused by those to whom they turned for help, but that's just what they got.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Each of those opposing viewpoints rests on personal experience with neither holding any more subjective weight than the other. Does that make sense and is it a reasonable way of understanding the conflict between each side?

It certainly makes sense to me. One thing I have really learned to appreciate is the wide variety of personal experiences. We all have experiences. My experiences tell me that pretty much anything can be conjured up by our minds. It doesn't mean that everything is but only that its impossible to distinguish. Unfortunately there is no way to compare subjective experiences between people. How do I know what someone else experienced? Maybe they did contact ET. Maybe what I experienced wasn't sleep paralysis. Maybe I really did travel back in time to save Janis? Maybe I did see Satan. Maybe I am Satan for saying this. Who knows.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

Each of those opposing viewpoints rests on personal experience with neither holding any more subjective weight than the other. Does that make sense and is it a reasonable way of understanding the conflict between each side?

The ability [or lack thereof] to distinguish between the subjective and the objective is where the conflict seems to occur.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Then you come along and make demands like you are the prince of enlightenment who must be satisfied in order to validate what others already have discovered. I'm afraid it is you who are left pushing the shopping cart full of dull thoughts and empty dreams.

It really is getting to the point where there is no "safe place" to have open minded discussions. The "projection" is really strong in your camp. That's for sure.

originally posted by: Unity_99
They work together, sometimes opposite sides/teams but aware of the other side, however in some cases opposite teams working together, because they all have access, the dark side alone doesnt have rights, so there are others involved who also have what may or may not be real rights. You'd have to wake up and truly remember if they do or not and if they're on your side or not.

Quoting myself here, pardon this please, but the reason is, because the way I wrote it, is basically the way it is. As an experiencer, when you're waking up, you would notice there are many sides accessing, some trying to put you back in your pen, threats even, and some waking you up, up and out of here. In one of the cases where i was attempting to RV a friends abductions that he knew were happening, he'd wake up with wounds and pulled wires out of him, and had sitings and missing time, but I got pulled and witnessed his abduction, and the host of that craft was really annoyed I was there. Moon based negative greys, the kind that control this matrix, herd humanity into their plans. I just bowed over and over, not as a subject but in a very polite dignified Japanese way and he seemed to like that kind of politeness and told me my attitude was right. Then I was told that my friend had many others involved in his case including his "family".

Its the way it really is.

a reply to: Unity_99

I just bowed over and over, not as a subject but in a very polite dignified Japanese way and he seemed to like that kind of politeness and told me my attitude was right.

I honestly don't know what to make of your experiences but I really appreciate that you share them. That's a really interesting detail. Thanks for sharing.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Hey. Is that Janis in the avatar?

Who's the guy?

Remove for thread drift...

a reply to: Unity_99


Still no pics yet unity are we EVER going to see something to back up your claims of seeing ufo's on a REGULAR basis

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Unity_99


Still no pics yet unity are we EVER going to see something to back up your claims of seeing ufo's on a REGULAR basis

At least there's no condescension and vitriol to her posts, which counts for a lot in my book.

a reply to: JadeStar

Here's the deal, throughout the years billions of people (number pulled out my ass and assuming cumulative) have claimed to have had sightings, experiences, ect. There has been trace evidence, there has been photo's that have been unexplainable as hoaxes, there have been credible witnesses within the masses of people out there making these claims. There are UFO related issues that remain a mystery.

No matter how you look at it some sort of phenomena IS occurring, whether it's some kind of mass delusion, conspiracy, aliens, or who knows what else. Either all these people are lying, delusional, ect, or for some reason hoaxing is such a common thing people love to do for some reason. Either way, you add it all up, the numbers get kind of crazy.

As such, while it's plausible there's some completely mundane reason for it all, there's enough there that a person is not crazy for speculating that at least some of this giant mass of wtf is possibly true.

So why is it we need to PROVE that aliens are here, before we can speculate on this large mass of info, and whether some it might be true, and if so, what that might mean.

I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable calling every single person who's had these experiences a liar, or delusional.

a reply to: Puppylove

I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable calling every single person who's had these experiences a liar, or delusional.

Yeah, neither am I because quite simply, they aren't. If you looked at some of the links I provided where they took a look at people claiming abductions, they found that none of them were delusional or lying. This is what Jonh Mack discovered and it was confirmed by the studies I linked. There are a wide variety of phenomena that occur amongst normal healthy people. Its really time to move away from the "they must all be delusional" argument because it is completely false. There simply is no way around it. People experience things.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

There are a wide variety of phenomena that occur amongst normal healthy people. Its really time to move away from the "they must all be delusional" argument because it is completely false. There simply is no way around it. People experience things.

Amen and a big testify on that sentiment.

The ongoing debate and discussion has always been limited by the terms of engagement - we can only communicate the concepts and contexts that are available to us.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: JadeStar
Origin of the Species: Rise of the Reptilian Alien Mythos and Its Unlikely Source

I see you link this thread often but I don't think it's a good idea to continue that because it can be seen that member DazDaKing completed dismembered your entire premise there.

Care to point out where exactly said 'dismemberment' occurred? I saw nothing in that members' post(s) that negated that threads' premise....

Everything wrong with that thread was explained in that members last post. That summed it up nicely. Thanks to that member for guiding those unknowledgeable about the mythos down the right path. You should be thankful too.

Assuming that aliens are visiting us, and there are more than one group... yeah. I see no reason to assume they wouldn't have disagreements. Hell, they may even outright hate each other.

a reply to: JadeStar

The 'theories' (because it's what they are ultimately) won't explain a large number of abduction scenarios, specially when there are multiple victims/witnesses/corroborating physical evidence.

Regarding the Hills' experience, if there's something that I really believe is prety weak is precisely the memory describing supposedly a 'star map'. That was recovered under hypnosis, and I don't know how reliable it could be to remember pretty specific details like a drawing on a wall after the memory was apparently 'suppressed', and then picked up by an enthusiastic woman to try to make sense of it.

I'm more interested in the experience itself, in the fact that we have multiple and simultaneus victims that share similar memories, in the fact that the witnesses have lost 2 hours after that 'ship' started to get closer to them, in the aftermath of the events that changed their lives that much that they needed to consult specialist to know what happened to them. All of THAT is really relevant, because it gives weight to the whole experience. It really points to the fact that something external, physical and UNKNOWN happened to them.

The later labour consist into trying to find explanations to what happened. What theories do we have?

-They fell sleep and dreamed... well, the same dream?
-They saw a satellite/meteor and confused it with some sort of ship with tripulants?
-They saw a plane/helicoper?
-They saw something ordinary, whatever it was, and they get confused with the time, and somehow lost 2 hours for being distracted?
-The 'sensations' that something weird happened after the event, that haunted them for years, is explainable... somehow?
-They both allucinated about a ship getting closer and then lost 2 hours because they got disoriented thanks to the... 'shared hallucination'?
-They fabricated the whole experience aboard a ship with 'bald' aliens under hypnosis? (that, incredibly, matches almost perfectly with several other similar cases)

I don't see how many of the above makes any sense, honestly. We're talking about a couple, in perfect health, that knew that road. No, it's obvious to me that something OFF really happened to them. No ordinary explanation can be given.

It involves:

-Something capable to 'erase' memories.
-Something that doesn't fit with any known airplane created by our society.
-Something that leaves an aftermath trauma.

And if we take in consideration what both said about the tripulants:

-Not-Human humanoids.