Next Level BS 47: The Real Reason College is Expensive: Wall Street BS

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Our daughter is in college. High end cost. But what REALLY irks me is the cost of the books. A $300 math book? Really? Comeon. Freak'n college book mafia.

Never buy books unless you are 100% certain you need that book for research purposes after the class is over. In most cases your notes and the internet/other materials (like a library) are sufficient for research. It's cheaper to rent a book than to buy a book and resell it. If you do have to buy a book, buy it used online never get it from the book store. This means paying out of pocket rather than through financial aid but it is very much worth it.

Whenever I've absolutely had to buy a book such as needing the book in class I've rented a digital copy and read it on a computer. It only costs about 25% as much that way.

a reply to: Aazadan

Wow! That's incredibly sad. 30 years of teaching with a PhD ought to get you that at least!

I found this on CNBC today and couldn't believe it! Their numbers have to be way off. Because if this were true then for every 2.6 people I know with a graduate degree 1 should be a millionaire. I know several people with graduate degrees and I think 2 may be millionaires. Maybe.

Road to Riches through Diplomas

I wrote an article about this....

The government made $186 billion dollars off of our young adults in the past ten years from student loans.

Another of their grand plans is to get young adults into debt right off the bat---so they're broke and dependent and part of the system as soon as they reach full maturity.

It is, I believe, the sign of an evil empire when the health and education of your youngest members is no longer important....and when exploiting them, profiting from them, and basically ensuring their futures are going to be hell...yep, that's the sign of an evil empire.

a reply to: Aazadan

An education probably will not make you wealthy, it will make you educated, unless of course you are an MD in private practice. Many people that are successful financially are those that figured out how to milk the cow, so to speak. Many are not educated and hire the educated to do the technical work for them.

originally posted by: misskat1
We should also look at the Book situation. I have found that the Math books are the same just the pages have been rearranged so that a student has to buy a new book.

That is exactly true, I have two separate math books for the same course to prove it.

I had to drop a math class one semester to make room for work, but I took the course two semesters later and had to buy the new textbook.

They literally just rearranged some chapters.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

How often does math, history, etc change? The same books should work year after year, until some new information becomes available then change it. Greed Greed and more Greed.

a reply to: theNLBS

Good topic NLBS. Thanks for researching and posting the thread. Wall Street is a toxic corruptor in this already super-corrupt society. People are waking up though

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

How often does math, history, etc change? The same books should work year after year, until some new information becomes available then change it. Greed Greed and more Greed.

Great freakin' point - that line alone should shut all these idiots up about "the update edition... blah blah blah".

Some topics like software/medicine/others I can't think of right now ARE changing year-by-year. But I went through 4 years of school (took me 6 years of course), and they have you buy a new edition of EVERY.SINGLE.TEXTBOOK in my BUSINESS MAJOR. C'mon, I'm not even talking about supply chain or marketing classes, which could change year by year. I'm talking about "BUSINESS ETHICS", and "PRINCIPLES OF BUSINESS" classes. As you stated LewsTherinThelamon , it is not justified.

It's a racket (as is the YOU.ESS system, as are all the wars, as are many taxes, the list goes on).

originally posted by: FamCore

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

How often does math, history, etc change? The same books should work year after year, until some new information becomes available then change it. Greed Greed and more Greed.

Great freakin' point - that line alone should shut all these idiots up about "the update edition... blah blah blah".

Some topics like software/medicine/others I can't think of right now ARE changing year-by-year. But I went through 4 years of school (took me 6 years of course), and they have you buy a new edition of EVERY.SINGLE.TEXTBOOK in my BUSINESS MAJOR. C'mon, I'm not even talking about supply chain or marketing classes, which could change year by year. I'm talking about "BUSINESS ETHICS", and "PRINCIPLES OF BUSINESS" classes. As you stated LewsTherinThelamon , it is not justified.

It's a racket (as is the YOU.ESS system, as are all the wars, as are many taxes, the list goes on).

I would be extremely wary of buying a book on business ethics from someone who makes you buy a new textbook every single year.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Our daughter is in college. High end cost. But what REALLY irks me is the cost of the books. A $300 math book? Really? Comeon. Freak'n college book mafia.

Hey Fly, its been a long time since I really bothered to log in and post here.

I am back at the university system in Arizona and we have just had some major pricing schemes introduced that have my peers in a tight spot. Myself, like many other students are returning to gain further education and are shocked at how much the prices have risen (except for text books).

You should buy her a ream of paper and maybe "happen" across a digital copy of those text books she needs.

Furthermore, if she is any good at her maths, my fellow students (in a VERY math heavy focus) have been working the business school students as tutors, especially the rich overseas kids from Asia and the Middle East . . . oh and California. If she is able she can make good money (for a student) as a private tutor. The whole adjunct faculty due to "budget woes" has destroyed the quality of assistance for struggling students.

If the math classes are hard, most community colleges have free tutoring programs which from my experience are head and shoulders above what I had available my first run through the system.

Best of luck to you and her.

-FBB

It's just another way to keep people in debt!They start you right away!Unless you're born rich,you struggle all your life to pay back those student loans!Why is there interest?

a reply to: Imightknow

There's no room for anymore trade people they are not making more money that's a lie. I'm a carpenter and the market blows there's tons of competition everywhere and bid prices are where they were in the 80's.

a reply to: Snarl

But what's even worse is that education people do overpay for is still substandard.

I live in Mexico and just to let you know a lot of the textbooks are NOT translated into other languages. Many specialists in higher education have to learn English and buy the English textbooks to pass their classes.

a reply to: Aazadan

haha isn't it funny like that though? Everything is backwards these days - doctors destroy health, bad is good, and even folks who are lactose intolerant can drink milk.

What a trip...

originally posted by: onequestion
There's no room for anymore trade people they are not making more money that's a lie. I'm a carpenter and the market blows there's tons of competition everywhere and bid prices are where they were in the 80's.

I agree there are no more good career choices left anymore, just timing and luck, tied to when a graduate first enters the market in ANY field. But the typical "price of admission" is of course a degree/degrees (even the trades are staring to require degrees or certificates from accredited universities for entry level because there is NO MORE on the job training or apprenticeships).

I will recap what I have explained here on ATS a MILLION TIMES!

Up to the 1940 a person could get just about any job with an 8th grade education, but today you need a BA or Masters for entry level.

Why?

Because the government & big business figured out a long time ago that populations would certainly increase over time, but due to technology advancements, the availability of jobs would not expand to meet that population growth. There is a DEFINITE reason they don’t want people dropping out of high school and then at the same time, encourage those same high school graduates to attend junior college, then a 4 year university and finally a Masters degree or PhD. Government strong-arms this concept because it DECREASES the amount of people looking for full-time employment at the SAME TIME, chasing after jobs in a market that CANNOT provide employment for everyone whom is looking that are able, qualified for and willing to work.

Look at it this way, when people could get a job with an 8th grade education, they went out and did it as soon as possible (opportunity cost). Then jobs got scarcer and the minimum requirement became a high school diploma, adding 4 more years of people NOT Looking for jobs within their cohort. Then jobs got even scarcer and the minimum became a 2 or 4 year college degree, adding an additional 2-4 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Now jobs are really scarce and may require a Masters or PHD, adding an additional 2-7 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort.

Basically due to the way the economy has been structured TODAY, we are looking at young people within their cohort whom are NOT looking for full-time, career type, employment for 6-15 YEARS, beyond K-12, all while they finish more school!!!

This has been done ON PURPOSE, to keep the number people seeking employment lower. In 1920 after 8th grade everyone who was able, went out to look for work and typically found it. That’s simply NOT possible today under any circumstances. Easily accessed welfare will soon add another 1-3 years of people within a cohort, to those “not seeking employment”. Note this will NOT be to the specific detriment of society, but means to continue to mask the illusion that jobs and upward mobility are still available. So, if someone gets a graduate degree and collects 1-3 years of welfare on top of than, that’s ONE less person competing for scarce jobs. The extra years of welfare are then acting in the same way to the larger economy, as the increased minimum education levels for employment previously, with the real goal of decreasing the number of able-bodied applicants out on the job market at the same time, but at the same time, not decreasing the supply of "potential workers" who's mere existance drive wages down for EVERYBODY. Keep in mind this cohort of people "not pursuing full-time employment" also includes those in Prison, Government pensioners/SSI and the disabled on government assistance. The reality is if everyone needed to go out and “get a job” or “start their own business” TODAY, as many “capitalists” and "entrepreneurs" suggest these days, we would ALL be making 0.25 cents a day.

The “owners of capital” have already decided, FOR US REGULAR PEOPLE, that there are going to be LESS jobs available in the NEAR future, due to increased automation and modern, corporate, labor cost-cutting measures. These measures will affect and include ALL contract work, ALL self-employment opportunities and ALL small businesses, NOT JUST payroll laborers.

Its easier to “pay less” or “nothing at all” to contracted or indentured “labor” when there is another willing laborer/slave, waiting in the wings, to do the work for less or nothing at all. In the past when there wasn’t enough money to go around to pay both wages & PROFITS, the “owners of capital” simply brought in more indentured servant immigrants (Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc) or used flat out slave labor (Blacks, Native Americans, domestic prisoners, POW’s, etc). The only difference between now and then is that “owners of capital” can’t LEGALLY have slaves or indentured servants. The mechanisms today that replaces slaves and indentured servants are the following: longer than needed formal education for basic employment, off-shoring of labor, forced retirement, prisoners and welfare.

The largest “recorded” wage increase to happen in history, for non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency, was after the black death pandemic, in the 14th century, especially in post-pandemic England.

But, how is that possible?

Because “the owners of capital”, post the black-death-pandemic, still needed wage-laborers, but there was a HUGE shortage of able bodied people. So, in order for ANY work to get done, they had to pay the peasants and other undesirables, more money, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. This principle is still at work today, when you take the time to recognize that sizable portions of the population are actively discouraged from participating in the full-time labor market. This is easily done, by throwing people in prison, forcing them to attend formal school longer and allowing more people to claim themselves as disabled or collect long/short term welfare.

Here is some more history to consider from the 14th century, the Peasants Revolt was triggered by the "Statute of Labourers 1351". By 1381, the sustained wage growth for non-land owing, wage-laborers was rising so quickly that the English parliament, a few decades post the Black-Death, under King Edward III, introduced the "Statute of Labourers 1351". This statute was used by the "Owners of Capital", as an artificial means to drive down the wages of non-land owning peasants. Despite market conditions signalling the need for increased wages.

The Statute of Laborers; 1351 ("Statutes of the Realm," vol. i. p. 307.)

Think about that for a minute, the MARKET signaled that wages should have been higher, due to actual labor shortages caused by the Black Death, but the “owners of capital” still didn't want to pay it, so they wrote a law saying why they didn't have to conform to demands of the market.

That's where we are today, a form of Neo-feudalism, driven by Fascist ideology and practices.

Why the F* should knowledge be paid for when it's meant to understand the reality we were unwillingly born into?

Oh yea to feed the controllers who operate the system before we were born...

Knowledge is free, it takes hundreds of hours to learn anything.

Not years, not thousands of dollars. Shame on people for feeding a faction who manipulate and take that money to create more strangleholds on humanity.

In ancient time, knowledge was free and open to any true students of the universe.

That is all.

You know, when my daughter quit college I was a bit disappointed.

Now, I am pretty proud of her. We were able to help her with some of the tuition, but the idea of being left with a ton of student loan debt (she sees what I go through with the never ending payments) truly frightened her.

She is a hard worker, shows up on time and is very dependable. Add to that an outgoing personality and being one of THE most naturally funny people I've ever met, I know that she will find her way in this world, college or no college.

As a side note, I called my loan servicer in order to hopefully lower my payments a bit using their income based repayment plan....BIG mistake. My payments WENT UP over $100.00 a month. I could buy a very nice car or pay half of a mortgage on a decent house with that payment. Instead, I drive an old car and we rent.

It really says something when someone who makes a VERY decent wage/hour struggles with bills and trying to save money.

We don't live above our means, btw...not even close! It is just almost IMPOSSIBLE to "make it" these days, like our parents did and it's only getting worse...

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

How often does math, history, etc change? The same books should work year after year, until some new information becomes available then change it. Greed Greed and more Greed.

It's a racket and the schools are in on it...I'm sure they receive very nice kickbacks, either personally to the profs who assign these ridic books or the schools themselves, every time they assign the "new" edition.

I've noticed that they even will test on things that are only in the newest edition, making it difficult to pass a test if you buy the less expensive former edition.

Total BS indeed.

a reply to: theNLBS

Some points:

1. the comment from one of the posters in here that governments try to keep us at school to somewhat gauge the influx on the labour market made me laugh. If it only were true, we would have free education everywhere.
   
2. Somebody else wrote that he, as a Mexican, found it unfair that he had to cope with college books in English. Well, thats the way it is, my friend; the academic world needs a common language to exchange information. It used to be Latin, it's English now and - count your blessings while they last - it may become Mandarin one day. Though it seems that even the Chinese nowadays adopt English (only 26 extra characters to memorize - that's nearly nothing compared to the roughly 4000 an educated Chinaman knows).
   
3. Another poster in here wrote that one needs a diploma for everything nowadays. He must live in another country than mine (I'm Dutch). In my country - though we boast a very high education level - we still have a lot of factories that employ people with limited education; just school, maybe a few years of high school. We have supermarkets that do likewise. And there are the (mostly American franchise) companies like Starbucks, McDonalds and KFC that employ whole slews of poorly educated folks, mixed with students, old folks and others will or can work for pennies.
4. In Europe, if you want to start your own business, you don't need an education. Just money. And given a proper plan, most banks will try to lend you that. I've never heard of a bank manager requiring to see your diploma, actually. Maybe that would be a good idea, come to think of it.
   
5. Education should be free. If we are able to produce well working software for free, we should be able to do likewise for education. So, maybe we need a real Open Source University (开源大学 ?). I've often been playing with the thought and may well end up starting such an institute (or joining it if it exists). It would offer free of charge, open source teaching materials, free of charge examinations and all of very high quality. You should be able to finish a BSc, Masters etc. and it should be just as valuable - maybe better - than the regular payed-for stuff.
   
6. There is, of course (pun intended) Coursera. They are a for-profit company that offers free of charge high quality courses over the Internet.
   
7. Europeans can still enjoy free of charge education too. For example, the Swedish Luleå university still offers free masters degrees for Swedes and residents of the EU. Very high value.