New Test Suggests NASA's "Impossible" EM Drive Will Work In Space

Last year, NASA’s advanced propulsion research wing made headlines by announcing the successful test of a physics-defying electromagnetic drive, or EM drive. Now, this futuristic engine, which could in theory propel objects to near-relativistic speeds, has been shown to work inside a space-like vacuum.

New Test Suggests NASA's "Impossible" EM Drive Will Work In Space

Pretty amazing stuff and some rare good news. It appears to break the (known) laws of physics, but has been tested by the Chinese and NASA and appears to work. Sorry if it's already been posted. Now the 1% will have to scramble to find a way to monetize the nearby galaxy.

More: NASA: New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

a reply to: ScreenBogey

Do I need to burn my physics books yet?

And there is also the possibility - as yet unconfirmed - that it might actually generate some kind of Warp field as well, something discovered by accident..

Exciting times...

EDIT: I would add though that is a great deal of scepticism on the various science forums I've visited as to whether this works at all - one of the tests produced a measured thrust even when it wasn't on, which could indicate a measurement error.

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND-----Buzz Lightyear will be happy!

First contact imminent.

Finally, we humans will be able to fulfill our purpose! Expansion of the empire & the enslavement of the multiverse.

Those aliens have no idea what's in store for them.

a reply to: ScreenBogey

So they are finally telling us about something they developed 50 years ago.
hum why

a reply to: ScreenBogey

Could it be that the EM drive works in vacuum because its electromagnetic radiations collide against the background zero-point enery, providing reaction thus propulsion?

Good thread anyway, S&F!

The EM drive might be explained using Classical Electromagnetism. Electromagnetic waves carry momentum and energy:

Electromagnetic Momentum

so it might be possible to manipulate these waves in such a manner as to impart momentum to the spacecraft, similar to rocket exhaust.

More research and modeling is needed.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: ScreenBogey

So they are finally telling us about something they developed 50 years ago.
hum why

Well the last 30 anyway. It would explain many things.

Under general relativity, The amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a function of the density of matter at and around that point. If the amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is or is also, a non linear function of magnetic plus electrical field intensities, then this EM drive will work.

Because the magnetic field intensity is greater at one end of the cavity than the other, space time will be warped, and the mass, hence momentum, of the microwave radiation bouncing off the end walls, will be greater at one end of the cavity than the other thus resulting in a net force.

This is exciting news to me, because a measurement of force would support my theory that, the amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a non linear function of magnetic plus electrical field intensities.

originally posted by: graysquirrel
Under general relativity, The amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a function of the density of matter at and around that point. If the amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is or is also, a non linear function of magnetic plus electrical field intensities, then this EM drive will work.

Because the magnetic field intensity is greater at one end of the cavity than the other, space time will be warped, and the mass, hence momentum, of the microwave radiation bouncing off the end walls, will be greater at one end of the cavity than the other thus resulting in a net force.

This is exciting news to me, because a measurement of force would support my theory that, the amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a non linear function of magnetic plus electrical field intensities.

I have no idea what you just said but I feel like saying, "Great Scott".

What cavity do you envisage here, a cavity around a craft? How do you create a cavity in a vacuum and what are tha walls made of?

a reply to: Forensick


In the EM drive test they are doing, The structure they are using is a hollow microwave resonant cavity. Microwaves are bouncing back and forth inside this hollow structure. The ends of this structure are the "wall" and are probably made of copper.

a reply to: graysquirrel

Under general relativity, The amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a function of the density of matter at and around that point.

Yes.

Because the magnetic field intensity is greater at one end of the cavity than the other, space time will be warped,

Where, under general relativity, is it implied that a magnetic field affects space-time?

There are magnetic gradients everywhere. An indication that they distort space-time? Are GPS clocks corrected for the magnetic field gradient between the surface and orbit?

The guy who developed the EM drive has a website:

emdrive.com...

This paper explains the concept:

www.emdrive.com...

If you believe his theory as to how it works there are no laws of physics broken. In fact his idea relies on a feature of Einstein's relativity.

a reply to: Phage

I clearly use the term "If" in regards to magnetic fields warping space and time. As in a theory of mine.

Yes magnetic field every where warp space and time everywhere just as mass everywhere warps space and time everywhere. It's a question of how much. In this test they are using very intense/strong fields to get a very very small force.

a reply to: graysquirrel

Yes magnetic field every where warp space and time everywhere just as mass everywhere warps space and time everywhere.

Citation needed

In this test they are using very intense/strong fields to get a very very small force.

In this test they are not using magnetic fields. Read the link above.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: graysquirrel

Yes magnetic field every where warp space and time everywhere just as mass everywhere warps space and time everywhere.

Citation needed

In this test they are not using magnetic fields.

You just gotta BELIEVE Phagey!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: graysquirrel

Under general relativity, The amount that space time is warped, at a given point, is a function of the density of matter at and around that point.

Yes.

Because the magnetic field intensity is greater at one end of the cavity than the other, space time will be warped,

Where, under general relativity, is it implied that a magnetic field affects space-time?

There are magnetic gradients everywhere. An indication that they distort space-time? Are GPS clocks corrected for the magnetic field gradient between the surface and orbit?

they do. but the coupling is extremely weak. it is in GRT. but When Martin Tajmar of ESA announced finding a coupling billions or trillions of times bigger than GRT predicts he was in serious peer review trouble. Still the point is GRT does predict a coupling between magnetism or electromagnetism and gravity.

easiest cite: Paragraph 2 of this article: www.sciencedaily.com...

Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field. According to Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, the effect is virtually negligible. However, Martin Tajmar, ARC Seibersdorf Research GmbH, Austria; Clovis de Matos, ESA-HQ, Paris; and colleagues have measured the effect in a laboratory.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

easiest cite: Paragraph 2 of this article:

That does not say that a magnetic field affects space-time. It says that a moving mass has a gravitational effect different than that of a stationary mass. The term gravitomagnetic is applied because the effect is similar to the way a moving electrical field creates a magnetic field.

It is an analogy. It is not magnetic fields affecting space-time. The equations do not involve magnetism, just velocity, mass, (and distance if required).
en.wikipedia.org...