Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homicide; 6 Officers Charged!

a reply to: retiredTxn

xWhether the knife was legal or illegal, it has no bearing on this case. The police had no probable cause to chase or arrest him. PERIOD! The knife was found as the result of an illegal arrest, so it is not pertinent. The police actions, or inactions, lead directly to his death. That is what the officers have been charged with.

Is that a fact? Could fleeing from law enforcement officers be legally deemed suspicious activity? Enough to at least detain? Then the cops can ask any question they want, you just have to be smart enough not to answer.

Questions that should always be answered with "I want to corporate but won't answer that question without my consulting my lawyer so don't mistakenly incriminate myself, officer." :

"Have you been drinking?"
"Where are you going to/coming from?"
"Can I search you/your car?"
etc, etc...

a reply to: IAMTAT

I wouldn't read too much in the stand down thing..only so much you can do and often probably better to back down than have a bunch of people killed including the cops.
We have had 2 very big riots after Stanley Cup games..I know lame, the only thing they could do was control the perimeter and get non involved people out of there. Lots of video taken and charges came later.
I'm very happy to see something happen here.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: dr1234
a reply to: IAMTAT

Without the riots would this have happened? That's an important question, and makes the people poo pooing the community pretty silly if the answer is what I think it is; probably not.

So people can judge someone guilty in the court of public opinion, and if the state/city isn't moving fast enough to hang them, you just burn and loot until someone finally acquiesces and throws people in jail? Yeah, that seems SUPER fair.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I meant that if this wasn't in the national spotlight they would sweep it under the rug with some bs excuse like they always do.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
WOW.

Couple of facts so far:

1. He was illegally arrested.

2.The knife he was carrying was entirely legal.

3. Six officers face unknown charges.

~Tenth

Probably already covered, but yesterday they announced there was a "4th stop" while transporting Freddy Gray to the station...and the arresting officers hadn't disclosed that stop...it was discovered via Security Cam footage of a nearby store. Don't know if they released that footage, but apparently these cops were lying about what really happened and once again CAMERAS made the difference.

a reply to: Indigo5
And people wonder why a lot of the public don't trust them anymore eh?

originally posted by: Crumbles
a reply to: windword

If he served 2 years on a felony drug charge, that would qualify him as a felon. Unless the time was spent in jail awaiting trial.

It has been shown he wasn't, can you show that he was?
And even if he was it has been shown that it wouldn't matter.

So the TL; DR is you should admit you are wrong like you said you would. Or are you part of that 99%

originally posted by: RedParrotHead


Is that a fact? Could fleeing from law enforcement officers be legally deemed suspicious activity? Enough to at least detain? Then the cops can ask any question they want, you just have to be smart enough not to answer.

Apparently, it carries no weight with the prosecutor, just have to wait and see how the defense attorney's spin it. Do you know that he fled from law enforcement for some other reason than fearing cops?

Did the police direct him to stop or stay where you are prior to him running?

Police can detain anyone, but there must still be some element of probable cause, right?

JMHO.

a reply to: Indigo5

Illinois v. Wardlow, 528 U.S. 119 (2000), is a case decided before the United States Supreme Court involving U.S. criminal procedure regarding searches and seizures.

The US Supreme Court ... stat[ed] that fleeing in a high crime area at the sight of police is enough to create reasonable suspicion. Indicating that reasonable suspicion rest heavily on normal human behavior, stating that flight at the mere sight of police is a sign that there exists reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot.

...an opinion delivered by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, the Supreme Court held in a 5 to 4 decision that the police had reasonable suspicion to justify the stop.

So, was the arrest illegal? The above make it clear that the stop and search was justified. And IF the knife was illegal was that enough to arrest...or is it a just fine? Seems like this could be opened up to a lot of debate...

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Indigo5
And people wonder why a lot of the public don't trust them anymore eh?

Yep..

Deputy Commissioner Kevin Davis said investigators discovered a security camera recording showing that the police van carrying Gray had made a previously undisclosed, second stop, after the 25-year-old black man was put in leg irons and before the van driver made a third stop and called for help to check on his condition.

...

The Associated Press talked later Thursday with grocery store owner Jung Hyun Hwang, who said officers came in last week to make a copy. Speaking in Korean, he said the only other copy had been stolen, along with his video equipment, when looters destroyed his store Monday night. He told the AP that he didn't see what the recording showed.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I find it interesting that the original copy was stolen? (though the investigators have a copy)...Lots to unpack there for the conspiratorial mind. If the original footage and camera were stolen...then no one knows who stole it? Cuz they took the security equipment. In the chaos, how hard would it be for a couple of cops to go into that store under the cover of stopping looting and take the equipment? It could have been looters...and it could have been cops trying to cover their trail...hopefully the copy investigators made doesn't go missing or get corrupted.

a reply to: RedParrotHead

That is really a bs ruling imo.
I mean I get what it is saying, just think it over steps.
Reminds me of broken window policy.

If you have nothing to hide, there is no reason to flee.I am so tired of when an officer of the law stops someone they start to question everything. To me, that is a red flag that you are hiding something.

This guy had 5 open cases pending, one in April for drugs. These were bike cops who know who this guy is. That is the point of neighborhood officers. To know the area and keep it clean. So, they see him and he bolts. The question is, was he scoring from the guy who they did NOT catch? Where is he? Two people fled, not one, so that tells me that there is something that they were hiding. Does that give police the right to kill someone or hurt them, no, but this was not something where they walked up, beat his ass and hauled him away. He fled...he resisted. He had the right to say hi to them and STFU. He would still be alive...like Trayvon...and M Brown...but they fled, acted suspicious or attacked someone.

The sad part will be when the six officers are found not guilty. This is a set up. Try to calm the masses with some warrants ( realize this is not a grand jury indictment) and when these guys get off the city will burn to the ground....around the country. Then let's see the police state that we are shown...playing into the hands of those who want the most control...

Good. Now, let the evidence be reviewed by an independent review board. Police must also be held accountable for wrong doing, and, if the evidence is supportive of an indictment, let justice be served.

I hope this sets a precedent considering Baltimore is involved with the Presidents task force on policing. IMO, moving forward, this will be a good thing.

(fingers crossed)

a reply to: TKDRL

Indeed..the irony seems lost on some here.

a reply to: matafuchs

If you have nothing to hide, there is no reason to flee.

Freddie Grey's death say's you're wrong.

The sad part will be when the six officers are found not guilty.

I highly doubt that ANY of these officers walk with no convictions at all.

a reply to: matafuchs

Ah yes the if you got nothing to hide you have no problem and if you exercise your rights you are suspicious all in one!

All capped off with this is a ploy to get a police state.
You don't think a police state is founded in the if you have nothing to hide you have no problem thought process?

originally posted by: RedParrotHead
a reply to: Indigo5


So, was the arrest illegal? The above make it clear that the stop and search was justified. And IF the knife was illegal was that enough to arrest...or is it a just fine? Seems like this could be opened up to a lot of debate...

I haven't fully examined that question, but it seems premised on the idea that IF it was a justified arrest, then the outcome was just?

Put another way...when you say "Seems like this could be opened up to a lot of debate..."....that is the whole point. When arrested you are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law.

Our justice system does not empower the Police to determine guilt. That is for the courts.

So "unlawful arrest" would seem the least relevant of questions when the arrestee ended up dead while shackled due to that arrest.

Sorry...not getting it.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Indigo5
And people wonder why a lot of the public don't trust them anymore eh?

I don't trust either. That's why I don't put myself in those situations.

I think it's important to note that Marilyn J. Mosby, the Baltimore State Attorney who brought these charges today only recently took office because people wanted change. She won her position on the platform of holding police accountable despite coming from 5 generations of law enforcement.

Some may call her actions today appeasement to the mobs. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. What her actions are is her standing by her word to hold police accountable.

I think the trend will be that Blacks are emboldened to behave with out regard to the law, and in a manner contrary to the rules of law. I think that Ferguson showed us the acquittal of the 'White' officer was more reason to riot and cause civil disobedience, or to justify that behavior by Blacks. With that in view, it seems that those in charge of the Baltimore incidents viewed that scenario a great risk indeed, and that the officers were thrown under the buss as expendables. There is an ever growing divide manifesting in the United States, and I believe it will grow greater this Spring and summer to the point of regional race wars. Curious too, is the last couple years with FEMA camps popping up all over. No conspiracy, just curious to me. I live in a 50/50 Black White location in the state of North Carolina, and when the Ferguson and now Baltimore incidents happened, have encountered a definite sense of hostility from our Black community. While shopping, or in traffic or just day to day activities the tension is evident.

This decision seemed to be made in all due haste in order to satisfy the Black community.

I've been watching the celebrating in Baltimore. Would it be ironic or very very sad if the celebration turns into a riot this evening?

I hope they have removed the curfew because that could be a trigger.