Mayan Eccentrics!

Some modern examples:



Source






Source

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: punkinworks10

Many of my pics were uploaded from LCL.... most of the simpler examples are from there, as well as the Tussinger pic.

Etley knife
Oddly resembles a european bronze age dirk from the same period
Thats wierd, works from the pc but not the laptop or mobile

a reply to: punkinworks10

It sure does - i'm guessing it's likely a spear/lance point? Interesting especially in the context of Danish Daggers emulating the incoming bronze tech. Did you ever see the flint "swords" they made too? A wooden form for the sword emulating a greek bronze leaf-bladed sword, with a cutting edge of flint blades similar to the prismatic blades on a Macuahuitl.

example on the right



Source

I've seen some modern repros complete with the wooden core to hold it all together, couldn't track down a pic though sadly.

The curved one is a beast too, though i doubt it would last too long in a scrap.. but as long as you got the first blow in you'd be golden!

a reply to: skalla
I've just been going through some Laurentian Archaic bifaces, ca 5000 BP. Nice...but this stuff is nuts. S&F4U!!

a reply to: skalla

Fantastic and amazing.
S&F.

Harte

Sweet post! The Maya elevated this form of art to a high degree, no doubt. Keep the pics coming!

The second picture almost looks like it could be a tool for making rope. I had a wood rope making block that looked vaguely similar many years back.

There are some really interesting artifacts in this thread. S&F

I wish I had a collection of those they are so cool

Please describe they are wild and look like they may have been ritually high when making them

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: Kandinsky

I did mention them and posted a pic here a few months back, and you in fact suggested it would make a good thread

The bowl pic, and a few others were saved from those large images, but maybe they get re-sized in ATS uploads... i was hoping that they would show full sized so that the flaking would be more obvious.

Apparently this bowl has such a tight fit with the lid that it's pretty much a seal:

This ceramic container is remarkable for the

perfect fit of the lid with the bowl. They can be

pressed together like a modern-day plastic container

until they snap together. But unlike plastic that is

flexible it's difficult to remove the lid once it has

been closed, without breaking off the rim.

As for the shapes, many of the simpler forms are assumed to be animals such as scorpions, centipedes etc.

I found what is described as a spider too:

The more fancy ones?

There are a LOT of faces there, and this one is a crocodile canoe with passengers:

And this is described as the heads of K'awil, a god of both fire and lightning

In The Ancient Maya -- by Robert J. Sharer and Loa P. Traxler -- it states that K'awil may have been a lightning god -- personification of lightning. This is due to the smoking axe (or tube) in his forehead, which may be related to Chac, who had an axe.

The ancient Maya used the image of K'awil in their royal accession ceremonies. Scepters made to look like K'awil -- known today as Mannikin Scepters -- were important in rituals concerning ascending the throne. Also, "eccentric flints" (stone chipped into designs, and not for practical reasons) of K'awil have been found. It is thought that these flints used to be part of scepters.

K'Awil/Kawil

The first ones More like ticks than spiders

a reply to: rickymouse

I see what you mean - i've seen similar shapes (usually in wood too) used in ropewalks, cards for weaving and so forth. The sharp edges would make it very poorly suited to such a task though - even when heavily blunted by abrading they would still cut fibres that are dragged through the gaps.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

There are actually quite a few for sale if you look out for them - one of the links in the OP has some pretty pricey Mayan artefacts for sale, but "lesser" examples even appear on EBay - you just have to take a risk on their authenticity unfortunately.

As far as being banged out of one's mind on mushrooms while making these, it would require so much concentration that it would probably make your brain melt, there are just so many variables a crafter has to take into account when doing such intricate knapping, as well as the possibility of getting flakes in your eyes, or driving a flake into a hand or a finger and severing nerves that i doubt it would be attempted. The designs do very much lend to a hallucinogenic experience though.

It's a good call on the "spider" possibly being a tick too

a reply to: punkinworks10 and a reply to: skalla

Guys, I fully understand that the processes are different, but that doesn't mean that the basic skill set and general goal aren't the similar--you're striking a stone (or other material) with a tool to remove bits of stone to create a desired shape. It's only a slightly different skill set, but just as easy to get decent (not an expert, but decent) at doing with some practice.

Different techniques, but similar in some regards, too--and the point of my post wasn't to compare stone carving to flintknapping, but was to interject the idea that when hoards of things like this are found, it could be interesting to think that it was the results of a Mayan sculpture class, and we're seeing experts in the making.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: punkinworks10 and a reply to: skalla

Guys, I fully understand that the processes are different, but that doesn't mean that the basic skill set and general goal aren't the similar--you're striking a stone (or other material) with a tool to remove bits of stone to create a desired shape. It's only a slightly different skill set, but just as easy to get decent (not an expert, but decent) at doing with some practice.

Different techniques, but similar in some regards, too--and the point of my post wasn't to compare stone carving to flintknapping, but was to interject the idea that when hoards of things like this are found, it could be interesting to think that it was the results of a Mayan sculpture class, and we're seeing experts in the making.

Carving and knapping are very different indeed, and while i see what you are getting at with suggesting that some items may be practice pieces (entirely plausible), as someone who both carves and knaps i gotta doubt your level of understanding of knapping as an art or craft.

Perhaps you are explaining your point poorly or i'm lacking in comprehension here, but have you ever done any knapping?

originally posted by: skalla

Perhaps you are explaining your point poorly or i'm lacking in comprehension here, but have you ever done any knapping?

Well, I've done quite a bit of napping. Whenever I get the chance I take a nap.

Harte

a reply to: skalla

I've never done any knapping with serious intent on creating anything exciting or to keep, but I have done it a few times. But I seem to be adept at doing very detailed things with my hands with minimal practice, so maybe things like this just come easily to me.

Something tells me I've made my point (no pun intended) somehow poorly, but honestly, it's a non-issue, as that was not the main point I was trying to make.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

No worries, I enjoy rambling on such subjects

a reply to: skalla

Many of the things they used to make back in the old days had duel purposes. It is like forming a nice cup out of clay. It can look real nice yet still have a functional use. Lots of what they created was from copying nature. An old stone pick axe actually looks like the top fin on a fish in many instances. The shape of some things we have today even mimic nature. Although all the cars nowadays have slanted eyes with sunglasses on, they used to look like they had two round eyes. The grill reminded me of teeth in the old cars sometimes.

a reply to: rickymouse

I remember hearing how Japanese produced cars in the 80's were supposedly made to look as though they had a cheery face.. Ever since I heard that as a kid I never looked at the grill as anything other than a toothy grin either

originally posted by: skalla
As far as being banged out of one's mind on mushrooms while making these, it would require so much concentration that it would probably make your brain melt, there are just so many variables a crafter has to take into account when doing such intricate knapping, as well as the possibility of getting flakes in your eyes, or driving a flake into a hand or a finger and severing nerves that i doubt it would be attempted. The designs do very much lend to a hallucinogenic experience though.

When I first saw this one...



...I thought coc aine, not for the form, but for the intense attention to intricacy that it can give you that the above suggests to me. I asked about but there is no evidence that the Mayan used coca, though trade networks were in place that could have brought it to them.

a reply to: Anaana

The levels of detail do speak of "hyper focus" and "all that"..

It's been many, many years but i remember reading in Terrence McKenna's "Food of The Gods" about even certain blends/strengths of Chocolate/Cocoa being used as a potent stimulant, by Aztecs iirc.

They could definitely have knapped on strong stimulants as opposed to more hallucinogenic stuff.

I don't read much on such stuff nowadays and much of what i have learned way back when is a bit hazy, but ofc many roots etc would be more stimulant than hallucinogen.

Just an fyi if you aint aware, we are going about this subject the right way, avoiding "personal experience" etc