BREAKING: Prisoner in Van Said Freddie Gray Was ‘banging against the walls’ During Ride

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: andy1972

look. he was able to run.. then he was tackled.. then his leg was dragging at an odd angle, which could very well be the first indication of a severe spinal injury.

You can argue the point that tackling him possibly exacerbated an existing injury, or it caused it outright (which now appears the case in reality) but at the point where he was showing signs of distress that were obvious to passersby, they should have stopped and assessed him and the situation.

It is ignorance which caused them not to, but as cops, they should be trying to at least cover their butts.

If it was found he was injured, the police department would have had to settle a law suit and some cops would have been investigated for excessive force and have a determination made to whether or not they were at fault, if it was found he was not injured, we at least would know more as to how and why he became injured...

but given my best guess in the situation, a man would still be alive.

If he or his family had informed of an existing injury at the time or just after, he may well be alive, or be it in a wheelchair. However, maybe he was worth more dead than alive both economically and propaganda wise.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Oh I don't see any of this to be about race at all.. some people just want to play that, on both sides..

and your right.. when you have people lying about this that or the other pain once or twice a week for years during arrests, then it makes you more likely to ignore someone who is telling the truth..

the liars, make those telling the truth far less believable. I think we as citizenry have some measure of responsibility in this as our behavior effects situations like this..this is why I am less likely to want to say anything about outright malice, as that is unlikely to be the case.

But you are correct, most police departments have a policy to stop and assess any situation where someone in custody is appearing to be in distress, or complaining of pain.. it does cover them, and while it is a pain to wait several times a week for EMT to determine if this person is lying or telling the truth, it also would prevent the real situations from going unattended.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Is now a new video with voices that shows Gray crying in pain, CNN news live.

I found this symptoms list of spinal cord injuries,

We have seen in the videos and by the first police reports that he showed at least a few.

Injuries to a specific side of the spinal cord or its center will produce characteristic patterns of symptoms, such as weakness or paralysis of arms or legs, or one side of the body. In an injured person who is unconscious, the degree of neurological injury may be hard to assess, so doctors must have a high degree of suspicion that a spinal cord injury has taken place and take steps to protect the spinal cord. This usually is done by using a cervical collar to immobilize the neck or by strapping the person to a stiff backboard for transport.

www.drugs.com...

He was found unconscious at arrival in the van

He could have been having seizures in the back of the van. That can cause thrashing around too.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Those are questions we simply dont have the answers to yet. I think we can assume the Man in question received some-form of maltreatment whether at the hands of the officers of the law, or down to the transport while being injured. Im not sure as to the design of the vehicle but my understanding is that prisoners are partitioned away from one another via a metal or wire screen.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I was thinking the same thing, He could have been having seizures before going unconscious

a reply to: marg6043

I posted a link to a picture on the other thread where it looks like he has lost control of his bladder as well. Seizures and lost of bladder control sometimes happen together..........

a reply to: rickymouse

Now, if he would not have been committing a crime, they probably wouldn't be arresting him.

What crime did he commit? Making eye contact while having PTSD from previous police run ins? If he was holding, (drugs) when they arrested him, we would have heard about it.

His crime? Making eye contacts and then running away from the bike police.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: NavyDoc

Is now a new video with voices that shows Gray crying in pain, CNN news live.

I found this symptoms list of spinal cord injuries,

We have seen in the videos and by the first police reports that he showed at least a few.

Injuries to a specific side of the spinal cord or its center will produce characteristic patterns of symptoms, such as weakness or paralysis of arms or legs, or one side of the body. In an injured person who is unconscious, the degree of neurological injury may be hard to assess, so doctors must have a high degree of suspicion that a spinal cord injury has taken place and take steps to protect the spinal cord. This usually is done by using a cervical collar to immobilize the neck or by strapping the person to a stiff backboard for transport.

www.drugs.com...

He was found unconscious at arrival in the van

In all fairness, however, reading a list of possible symptoms, but having never seen or evaluated such an injury yourself, and being able to correlate them to a cellphone video is rather problematic--especially without an understanding of the anatomy and physiology involved.

One has leg weakness but not arm weakness from a cervical spine injury? That's not possible as, in the cervical spine, the motor fibers for the legs are deeper than the motor fibers for the arms--the injury would have to take out the arms as well as the legs.

In order to be apneic due to a cervical spine lesion, it has to be a very high lesion. The jingle they taught us in medical school was "C3,4,5 keeps the diaphragm alive." If he had such a lesion, he's not crying out in pain, he's not asking for help, he's not moving anything, anywhere below his neck. That's obviously not the case. Some say that his dragging his leg is the result of injury (which happens) but arrested people who don't want to go on the ride often drag their legs too, so that's not definite evidence of an injury. He didn't have the "rag doll" look of a high cervical lesion and he actually seemed to stand and move his head and shoulders just as he was placed in the van which leads one to surmise that the terminal event, a high cervical evulsion, did not happen yet.

Now it is possible that he did sustain a fracture before he was placed in the van but it only caused neurocompromise later. The reason is that a non-displace spinal fracture will not cause neurological symptoms. Quite often one is seen after a trauma and is walking and talking and appears fine and then you get an xray and say to yourself "holy #, get him in a collar and call in the neurosurgial team!" The reason why is that the bone and bone fragments have to move into the spinal canal to impinge on the cord and nerves to cause neurological symptoms. If the facture was non-displaced before he was put into the van, he could very well been asymptomatic.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Correct any damage to the spine between C1 to C5 has a high fatality rate or at the least leaves you paralysed for life with paraplegia or tetraplegia if you survive.

Thats if the phrenic nerve isn't damaged and your diapragm stops working, then its lights out.

originally posted by: andy1972
a reply to: NavyDoc

Correct any damage to the spine between C1 to C5 has a high fatality rate or at the least leaves you paralysed for life if you survive.

Thats if the phrenic nerve isn't damaged and your diapragm stops working..

The phrenic nerve is supplied by nerve roots from C3,4,5. The only way you are living with a C3 subluxation is on a vent, which, I assume he was on during his hospital stay.

AS I said before, it is certainly possible his cervical spine was fractured before he went into the van if the fracture was non-displaced.

The Police Commissioner stated earlier that the witness in the van said the ride was not erratic and that Freddie Gray was "mostly quiet."

So, now he's saying Freddie was banging on the walls? Which is it? This story is suspect.

Unless there was a third prisoner in the van and these are statements from 2 different witnesses? Does anyone know if there was, indeed, another witness in the van?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

It's tricky for the law though, when every crim calls "I'm injured get me help" then the police end up taking every crim to the hospital or else we have to train or employ a doctor with every policeman, yeah no worries but tax is now 20%.

Btw, if it cost 20% tax for decent police, prison and healthcare then we should pay it, you can't demand gold plates when you pay lead washers.

Wake up!!

a reply to: andy1972

Did anyone notice a pattern of his previous arrest sheet? Busted 4x in 2007, Busted 4x in 2008, was on good behavior for 4 years?, 1x in 2012, 1x 2013, 4x in 2014, and 4x in a short 2015. A lot of repeating months.

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: OpinionatedB

It's tricky for the law though, when every crim calls "I'm injured get me help" then the police end up taking every crim to the hospital or else we have to train or employ a doctor with every policeman, yeah no worries but tax is now 20%.

Its the direct result of every perp that "cries wolf" about being hurt every time he's picked up.

a reply to: KonquestAbySS

Drug addiction may possibly have something to do with his behavior pattern given the arrest sheet.

The man was carrying a switchblade knife.

Maybe he was into wood shaving as a hobby.

So he didn't just run because of eye contact, he ran because he was carrying an illegal weapon.

Cops chase and tackle perps daily. injuries occur, some die, most live.

More folks are killed by Drs than anything else..you don't see folks burning down hospitals and throwing bricks because a Dr screwed up and killed your loved ones?

Poor mistreated Criminals, Boo Friggen Hoo

Freddy should have been living under the radar and most likely he would still be alive

a reply to: andy1972

It wasn't a switch blade, it wasn't a "fully automatic" knife. It was a gravity-assisted, folding knife.

Freddie Gray death: Should it really be illegal to carry a knife in the city?

ATLANTA — In the end, Freddie Gray paid the ultimate price for the crime of clipping a common knife to his pocket.

The cells inside those police vans are tiny. Gray could've just freaked out from fear, drugs (withdrawal), claustrophobia...or even a combination of any of these.