I just want the magic back, oh and Nesse is a salamander now

originally posted by: Frocharocha
Isn't the lake to cold for species like salamanders.

Guess not. Pretty cool huh? Life always finding a way.

Only insects and small animals alike i believe.

Well insects in themselves are some of the most fascinating animals on the planet. So many are capable of so many different things, it's insane. They are really a good case study for evolutionary niches.

Not everything has to be a monster movie.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Don't get me wrong, I love new species, but skeptics have a habit of anyone daring to have an interest in things not yet proven by science, and treating them like idiots. If everyone did that, nothing would be discovered. People have found many things while looking for something else entirely.

Monsters are fun, whether they exist or not, the search for them inspires more people to get out there and explore, search, and research.

Skeptics have been so damn hardcore they've been whittling away as hard as they can at the ability for anyone to feel, share, and even consider the possibilities. If they succeed that motivation will be crushed near completely. That would be a very sad thing indeed.

a reply to: Puppylove

I disagree. Skeptics are just skeptical of bad evidence, which the cryptid field is full of. A common fallacy among pseudo-sciences is that the world religiously distrusts anything they present as evidence. That isn't true. The problem that many skeptics have with the evidence presented (and thus why many pseudo-sciences are dismissed outright) is that the evidence collected isn't objective or the evidence collected was done by veering away from the scientific method. They usually do this through confirmation bias (saying that something exists then building evidence to support that assumption).

Personally, as a skeptic myself, I have no intention of entertaining bad evidence as valid evidence, but I have EVERY intention of considering good evidence that presents a new idea that hasn't been considered before. This is why I say that the cutting edge science is the location of modern wonderment.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Through exploring the world and universe around me through science, it continues to instill a greater and greater sense of awe and wonder.

For me, I don't even need to go as far as "cutting edge," but like with most things YMMV. I love performing any experiment that I have never personally done and plenty are fun and educational time after time!

A basic, but interesting demonstration, is to build a very simple circuit that sends out an adjustable electrical signal to both an LED and a speaker. For me, it just never gets old to see the light stop blinking, while my ears can still parse the signal clearly.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Don't get me wrong, I love new species, but skeptics have a habit of anyone daring to have an interest in things not yet proven by science, and treating them like idiots. If everyone did that, nothing would be discovered. People have found many things while looking for something else entirely.

Monsters are fun, whether they exist or not, the search for them inspires more people to get out there and explore, search, and research.

Skeptics have been so damn hardcore they've been whittling away as hard as they can at the ability for anyone to feel, share, and even consider the possibilities. If they succeed that motivation will be crushed near completely. That would be a very sad thing indeed.

Nice OP and I agree with this. But on the other hand want the truth in the matter. On top of that there is the unfortunate nature, for example, of what the bigfoot research community is going through. They seem to beat odds with anything brought forth. Minus the claim to fame, money, or just money brought in by sensational claims, seems there's a long way to go on getting taken serious.

There are mountain lions around me and I have come up on them in the woods, I've hiked around grizzly’s, black bears, etc.
So I guess the point was what you thought you could handle without a gun.
Me, I'm not too worried. Of course caution and common sense doesn't hurt, and a few prayers ; )
a reply to: Puppylove

originally posted by: usernameconspiracy

Hell, you can't even have a good bar argument over several beers anymore. Stupid smart phones end every damn argument in 30 seconds.

sorry it's off topic but good point and funny!

I guess we have to nurture the child within to re-discover the magic.




I still believe that there are things out there somewhere that we just don't know about yet, or don't have enough proof of yet.

Right! I want the magic back too, dammit! I miss the days when the conspiracies weren't debunked. I miss watching ghost adventures and other ghost shows on tv and being so excited. I miss watching crop circle DVDs back in the day and being so mesmerized and excited by the idea of them.

I miss when we all really thought there were UFOs and aliens at Area 51 almost for sure. I miss when I thought all the crop circles were amazing and real and made from some other-worldly being as a way to send cryptic super-intelligent messages! It was so fun to try to analyse them and adore them.

I miss when I thought Id see the men in black one day, or that I might have already somehow, only to realize no one has seen them in forever and who even knows if its true or not anymore. But of course, we all thought it had to be true at some point, and those were the most fun and speculative points. I miss when everything was a conspiracy.

I miss when we all thought the apocalypse was going to happen. And then people claimed it would every year and every few months and then it lost it's lusture and value... oh .. and did I mention it never happened... any of the times..

I miss reading things out of the bible allegedly hinting at the end of days, or thinking there were messages in there that were fascinating, only to realize that none of them really happened when we thought we'd perhaps solved some kind of riddles. Now it just looks like a bunch of empty text.. And the sea turning red? Yeah.. that was never paranormal or magical either.. that, like everything else, had a normal, environmental explanation, unfortunately. Sigh..

I miss nessie too. I also miss bigfoot, slenderman etc. ( once I thought slenderman was awesome back in the day because I thought he could be real once and then realized its just a made up story .. but it was fun for a minute... )

I miss when I thought the alphabet agencies were these clandestine, super interesting and secretive agencies that held mysteries and super exciting information. But now, I just look at them as just another government outlet that really isn't all that to be intrigued about anymore.

I'm currently interested in the underground cities in, China? Was it? Said to date before the pyramids or some such. They are pretty awesome. But Im trying not to be too enthusiastic because I know it's only a matter of time before someone finds a way to take the magic away from that too and come up with a plausible explanation that makes them mundane like they do with everything else...Sigh..

Except, the one thing that still hasn't lost Its mystery, at least to me, Is the UFO phenomenon. I was almost taken by the "they are black project military aircraft" lines a few times, like I actually pondered and considered on serious terms that those who say that could indeed be right... but then I remembered after remembering what they did and looked like that.... Mmmmm.. No.. there's no way. There's no way whatsoever those were military crafts, but nice try


It made the world interesting. But now, it just seems like the world doesn't have much value anymore. What kind of world is fun if everything once interesting is disproven to be ordinary? Of course it would be unintelligent to not try and disprove something first before believing it. But.......

I don't think that kind of world is much fun at all...

Being ignorant is well... ignorant.. But it can be beautiful to be ignorant sometimes and have wonder about the world. To be excited and To be fascinated about all the unknowns..

I miss the magic too...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Bullpoo, skeptics show up everywhere, wanted or no, to stick their nose in places that they are neither needed nor asked for.

They've made a sport of calling people who try to discuss their experiences with others who've experienced the same pretty much liars, and harass people demanding proof they can't possibly provide, and tell them, what they experienced and saw can't possibly be possible, simply because, no irrefutable evidence has shown up yet.

You could have people sharing their bigfoot experiences with others and talking to like minded individuals.

Or people talking about their personal abduction experiences, which if true are potentially as traumatic as rape, and discussing with other similar people.

Then here comes mr. skeptic to tear them apart, call them a liar, demand proof, when it can't be given, call them a liar again. Ect, then they leave and here comes the next skeptic. Skeptics have moved passed being scientists to straight up become bullies and engage in harassment.

Just because a person cannot provide you with proof, just because, irrefutable evidence has not occurred does not mean it didn't happen. It doesn't mean it DID happen, but either way, there's a point where skeptics need to learn to back the frig off of people.

If these incidences did happen, if people actually are experiencing these things, if say, alien abductions really are happening, then whether evidence exists or not, these people deserve to be able to speak and talk with others without a constant barrage of harassment.

It's gone far beyond simply trying to search for the truth.

The reason I'd love say, for Mokole-Mbembe for example, is that the second something like it, or Ropen, or Bigfoot ect, shows up, then, "it's not possible cause no irrefutable evidence exists, if they were real, we'd have such by now", stops being an end all argument, and reason for people to stop looking.

I'm so sick of the "where's the evidence?" argument. When the truth is, there's just no irrefutable evidence. If there was one way or the other it would end. People are seeing these things, whether the reason is mundane, or delusion, or something mystical, it's happening, and research into why is not a waste of time.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Bullpoo, skeptics show up everywhere, wanted or no, to stick their nose in places that they are neither needed nor asked for.

Skeptics don't need an invitation to post in any thread or forum. It's a free access forum, so our opinions are just as "needed" as any other opinion. Also, believers tend not to ask for a skeptics' opinion anyways.

They've made a sport of calling people who try to discuss their experiences with others who've experienced the same pretty much liars, and harass people demanding proof they can't possibly provide, and tell them, what they experienced and saw can't possibly be possible, simply because, no irrefutable evidence has shown up yet.

Confirmation bias is a tricky thing. People don't like being called liars, but have a tendency to believe accounts they are predisposed to already believe. Not to mention, your brain lies to you. So you may be lying about your account and not even realize you are doing it.

You could have people sharing their bigfoot experiences with others and talking to like minded individuals.

Or people talking about their personal abduction experiences, which if true are potentially as traumatic as rape, and discussing with other similar people.

Then here comes mr. skeptic to tear them apart, call them a liar, demand proof, when it can't be given, call them a liar again. Ect, then they leave and here comes the next skeptic. Skeptics have moved passed being scientists to straight up become bullies and engage in harassment.

Personal testimony is sketchy evidence and certainly not evidence of existence. If this troubles you, then too bad. That's how things work.

Just because a person cannot provide you with proof, just because, irrefutable evidence has not occurred does not mean it didn't happen. It doesn't mean it DID happen, but either way, there's a point where skeptics need to learn to back the frig off of people.

Maybe if these believers would try to sit and rationally think about their experience and research possible natural reasons for what they experienced instead of jumping straight to some fringe theory, skeptics wouldn't be so damn critical of them all the time. You are right, they probably DID experience something. But to definitively say what that something is, is intellectually dishonest.

If these incidences did happen, if people actually are experiencing these things, if say, alien abductions really are happening, then whether evidence exists or not, these people deserve to be able to speak and talk with others without a constant barrage of harassment.

Then go to a UFO forum that bans skeptics. This is ATS, we deny ignorance here.

It's gone far beyond simply trying to search for the truth.

The reason I'd love say, for Mokole-Mbembe for example, is that the second something like it, or Ropen, or Bigfoot ect, shows up, then, "it's not possible cause no irrefutable evidence exists, if they were real, we'd have such by now", stops being an end all argument, and reason for people to stop looking.

I'm so sick of the "where's the evidence?" argument. When the truth is, there's just no irrefutable evidence. If there was one way or the other it would end.

Well a skeptic can't prove a negative, so OUR side of the argument can never end.

People are seeing these things, whether the reason is mundane, or delusion, or something mystical, it's happening, and research into why is not a waste of time.

Sure, I'm all for that as long as the research follows the scientific method. Again, like I said, MOST if not all research into these topics doesn't follow the scientific method. MOST investigations into these things already presuppose that these things exist and try to prove that instead of considering that the event is "mundane or delusion".

It certainly isn't mystical, lol. Magic isn't real and is just misunderstood science. So if you are using that word to describe an unknown event, you've already traveled away from science and serious discourse.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You don't need an invitation, but some respect would be nice. There's a difference between, respectfully asking a few questions, and making a few points vs. harassment.

Unless you're going to tell me you honestly believe there aren't skeptics/debunkers that take things too far, and straight up hound people.

Addendum: Oh and for the record I don't really believe in magic, I believe that technology or phenomena not understood by the observer is easily misinterpreted as magic.

That said, I do believe in technology and phenomena we do not yet understand the source of.

Let me put it this way, there are two ways to be a skeptic.

One is diplomatically, with respect, and an open mind. You can be both a skeptic, and a nice guy to the experiencer for whom this may be a traumatic experience. To say their peace, discuss, and also allow room for the person sharing their encounter to discuss it with others without derailing them with a constant barrage.

Or

One can be an accusatory ass, who disrespects the person they are talking to, and refuses to listen to anything the other person says, or acknowledge in any way how deeply this encounter may has affected the person. Taking every opportunity to butt in and derail the thread with nothing but how horribly wrong they think the person is and shout down any other kind of conversation that might occur on the topic.

The problem is, too few skeptics fall into the first category, and two many fall into the second.

Main point and request for skeptics, "Give people some damn room to breathe"

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You don't need an invitation, but some respect would be nice. There's a difference between, respectfully asking a few questions, and making a few points vs. harassment.

Unless you're going to tell me you honestly believe there aren't skeptics/debunkers that take things too far, and straight up hound people.

There are people from all walks of life that take things too far. Labeling all skeptics under that banner isn't fair.

Addendum: Oh and for the record I don't really believe in magic, I believe that technology or phenomena not understood by the observer is easily misinterpreted as magic.

So we are in agreement.

That said, I do believe in technology and phenomena we do not yet understand the source of.

Naturally, science isn't complete yet. So of course there is still technology that we can invent (or may be invented already elsewhere in the universe that we haven't seen).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, but the numbers of skeptics that take things way too far is growing to the point it's becoming downright oppressive, so is it any surprise some of us are getting fed up with skeptics?

Let me say this though. I try to be very unemotional and unattached with my posts and many people misinterpret that as me being rude and/or uncaring. It happens to me literally ALL the time from people who let themselves get WAY too emotionally attached to an issue. If you are able to debate me unemotionally, I'm actually not that contradictory.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, but the numbers of skeptics that take things way too far is growing to the point it's becoming downright oppressive, so is it any surprise some of us are getting fed up with skeptics?

That's because skeptics get tired of seeing the same bad arguments brought forth in favor of whatever pseudo-science topic is discussed. It becomes frustrating when point after point is debunked by a skeptic then the believer just moves on to another thread and posts the same already debunked points.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Puppylove

Magic is just misunderstood science. There is PLENTY of amazing things out there for us to see and experience that we've discovered. There is even more that we haven't. If you want to look at the world in wonderment again, just follow cutting edge science.





I do follow cutting edge science and I love the fact
that they just throw their arms in the air because
they have ZERO ideas about what to do with the
magic of Quantum Entanglement.

edit on 30-4-2015 by UnderKingsPeak because: Magic

The thing is, magic was not here on the first place. See, When I was a kid, I used to wonder about my surrounding, how this or that worked, but i I never actually believed in magic(traditional). May be because I used to watch too much Discovery and National Geographic, so I understood early that most of the "magical" things are scientific things.
Of course, when it comes to believing UFOs, Mystic creatures, Conspiracies, I'm semi-skeptic(and semi-believer), because of some things, which I've seen, unexplained or mysterious. While investigating something, I ask my self, " What this thing might be? " and then the usual procedure, debunking or unexplained phenomena.
The mystery, the magic is still there. Who know, there might be a whole here of dinosaurs somewhere on earth and we haven't discovered it yet.
What if, Aliens are already visiting us, but we can't make contact because, we are not "compatible" with them(different dimension,excessive energy).
What if, In year 2300, humankind have invented(discovered?) time travel technology, and are visiting us(government) and we haven't been told?
What if, those fairies, trolls, Giant monsters are just aliens and/or experimented species?
Everything is possible, If you are open minded. They mystery is still there and when you find it, you'll find a new mystery. Its a circle.

Naturally, science isn't complete yet. So of course there is still technology that we can invent (or may be invented already elsewhere in the universe that we haven't seen).

That we haven't seen, elsewhere in the universe? That's pretty closed minded. That you haven't seen and hasn't been proven to the satisfaction of disclosed science, is a much safer way of putting that.

All it takes is one single human to see a single alien craft somewhere, whether it's ever proven or not, for that statement to be wrong.

Even if that craft was nothing more than a lone drone of an alien nature.

In the same way believers jump to the fantastic, the skeptics, immediately presuppose, in statements such as yours, that it's anything but the fantastic if it's occurred at all. Both are approaching things with a bias.

Is like anthropomorphizing animals. Both assuming something an animal does is the same as it is for humans, and assuming something an animal does is not the same as it for humans, are both biased assumptions to approaching the question.

It has been proven animals share many emotional traits with us, including with dogs especially, the ability to feel love. For a long time it's been said to never anthropomorphize an animals behavior. That's a dangerous road to take, because it presupposed that nothing an animal does and feels is the same as ourselves.

When it comes to the fantastic, the skeptics often begin from the equivalent of the never anthropomorphize, while the believers choose to always anthropomorphize. (this statement is hyperbole and not meant to be taken literally as in all skeptics or believers all the time)

The best way to be is open minded but not to the point everything falls out your skull. Too far either direction, and one has reached too much bias.