Freddie Gray had spinal surgery a week before the arrest ??

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SlapMonkey
Really? The assertion of the OP is that Freddie Gray walked into the van of his own accord, and turned to the camera and smiled. If that's the case, what happened to him, while he was in police custody, shackled and held in the back of the police van, that caused him to have a suffered a severed spine, that resulted in his death?

So, you seem to have forgotten what the OP said, so let's quote it, shall we?

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
thefourthestate.co...

Hmm, I can't find much more information on this, but it would appear that he did have a prior injury with a large lawsuit against AllState, and possibly multiple previous surgeries. Medical records are private, but the ME's report will likely be released, and they would obviously catch the clear signs of recent major surgery. So we'll have to wait for the 6pm update and see, but here's the basics:

The Fourth Estate has contacted sources who allege that Freddie Gray received spinal and neck surgery a week before we was arrested, and was allegedly receiving a large structured settlement from Allstate Insurance. The surgery is allegedly related to a car accident in which Gray was involved.

Sources allege that Gray also attempted to refinance his structured settlement into one lump sum payment through Peachtree Funding.

If this is true, then it is possible that Gray’s spinal injury resulting from his encounter with the Baltimore Police was not the result of rough-handling or abuse, but rather a freak accident that occurred when Gray should have been at home resting, not selling drugs.

The structured settlement from Allstate and Gray’s attempt to convert it into one lump sum payment has been confirmed by Howard County Circuit Court Records

It's at least interesting considering there is no video or pictures of the guy being beat down. If this turns out to be true, the guy should have at least been seeing after himself and not getting into trouble with police just a week after major surgery.

Please show me where it says ANYTHING that you just claimed it did.

If you take the time to actually reflect on my comment to which you replied, you would understand that I'm saying that your claim that your assertion is the only, 100% possible scenario is a crap conclusion.

And it is.

This has repeatedly regressed into a "race debate"

It started as a "police" debate.

But no one is even looking at the "truth" in regards to "why" the "hood" has become such a horror.

After the Civil Rights Movement over the previous Decades 51% of African Americans Moved to The Suburbs This is Referred To as "Black Flight"

So lets be real what are places like Ferguson and Baltimore? Places that experienced first "White Flight" then "Black Flight"

So is this a "Black" issue... not really

Is this a "Police" Issue... not really

IT IS... "A GHETTO ISSUE"

Our inner cities have seen a systematic flight of everyone and anyone capable of working, graduating school or who operates from a cultural POV that is sustainable in life.

The locations are NOT easy for Cops to handle the percentage of criminals, drug addicts and the just plain disenfranchised is waaaaay higher than anywhere else as well as "densely" populated.

Even still there were PLENTY of Black people who stepped out "the right way" calling for non violence but sadly they are stuck in a Sea of decay.

Repeat after me....

"America has Ghettos"

"America has Ghettos because both White and Black people FLED these locations"

"In the Ghetto remains all the people left behind"

"The problem stems from the fact that there are Ghettos"

"There shouldn't be Ghettos"

"In all of History once a location becomes a Ghetto there has never been a solution"

"eventually someone burns them to the ground"

"It is a social phenomena that has existed from the start of time since there have been cities"

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

You're mistaken if you think I'm going to argue with over when the fatal blow happened, that resulted in Freddie Gray's murder. The fact is, he sustained a severed spine while in their custody, and while under their complete control.

But see, you call it "murder" when we do not know the how, or why, or who. You've had your mind made up from the start. Was it murder? Possibly. Criminal neglect? Possibly. None of the above? Possibly.

Whatever pretty package you want to wrap it in, it's homicide by cop.

Except if it isn't. That's the salient point. You can't call it homicide by anyone until we get all of the facts. What if one of the other men in the van got pissed at him and broke his neck? The only thing we know for certain is that he was alive at one end of a sequence of events and not alive at the other end with zero knowledge of what happened in between. Like most liberal-run inner city #holes, the Baltimore cops are dicks and I wouldn't be surprised if they did hurt him intentionally. However, the fact of the matter is, that at this point we don't know what happened and certainly not enough to justify riots and looting (which are not justified even if the cops did kill him on purpose.) You have a preconceived notion, but that's all it is.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

My mistake. I mistakenly thought that Vasa Croe was the OP.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Well he certainly didn't look like he was under any duress when he stepped into the van on his own...

Are you kidding? Did you watch the same video that I did? His legs were paralyzed and he was screaming out in pain!

I don't care if he had surgery before, he needed medical attention RIGHT THEN and they inhumanely ignored his needs and caused his death.

End of story!

Here...let me point out exactly where you are incorrect:

So, being paralyzed and all, he can sure stand up, turn his head and smile well, before getting into the van on his own.....

^^^^This is the post I was referring to.

a reply to: NavyDoc

LOL

Dollars to donuts, and you're on. I predict Freddie Gray's death will be ruled a "Homicide". Mark my words!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

LOL

Dollars to donuts, and you're on. I predict Freddie Gray's death will be ruled a "Homicide". Mark my words!

And that's fair enough. If it is ruled a homicide, then it'll be a homicide. OTOH, if it is ruled something else (which I honestly doubt) would you accept that as well or would you consider it some sort of cover-up?

a reply to: windword

Well with everything we have seen in this thread and all the information that we has able to read, (we still do not have the official results of the investigations, is more than one, state justice department, federal justice department investigation, state department investigation, independent investigation from the family members and lawyers and so on), we so far can speculate, that it will be some charges against those polices officers that were handling Mr. Gray during his arrest.

a reply to: criticalhit

And that my friend, is exactly the problem with inner city, they have been left to rot and while the city officials knows that these poor communities are there they just throw money in the name of welfare and let them keep festering.

Is a new generation of young people and children that do not know any better.

That is unacceptable.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

LOL

Dollars to donuts, and you're on. I predict Freddie Gray's death will be ruled a "Homicide". Mark my words!

And that's fair enough. If it is ruled a homicide, then it'll be a homicide. OTOH, if it is ruled something else (which I honestly doubt) would you accept that as well or would you consider it some sort of cover-up?

Cover-up? Absolutely, specifically if it's ruled suicide!

In a press release issued March 3, the day he died, the Louisiana State Police said Victor White III apparently shot himself in an Iberia Parish police car. According to the police statement, White had his hands cuffed behind his back when he shot himself in the back.

But according to the full final report of the Iberia Parish coroner, which was released nearly six months later and obtained exclusively by NBC News, White was shot in the front, not the back. The bullet entered his right chest and exited under his left armpit.
www.nbcnews.com...

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

LOL

Dollars to donuts, and you're on. I predict Freddie Gray's death will be ruled a "Homicide". Mark my words!

And that's fair enough. If it is ruled a homicide, then it'll be a homicide. OTOH, if it is ruled something else (which I honestly doubt) would you accept that as well or would you consider it some sort of cover-up?

Cover-up? Absolutely, specifically if it's ruled suicide!

In a press release issued March 3, the day he died, the Louisiana State Police said Victor White III apparently shot himself in an Iberia Parish police car. According to the police statement, White had his hands cuffed behind his back when he shot himself in the back.

But according to the full final report of the Iberia Parish coroner, which was released nearly six months later and obtained exclusively by NBC News, White was shot in the front, not the back. The bullet entered his right chest and exited under his left armpit.
www.nbcnews.com...

Kind of like Vince Foster's "suicide?" ;-) (Although, I don't see what a murder in Louisiana has to do with this case--must be more liberal logic.)

So basically, what you are saying is, that you will accept no explanation at all other than the the preconceived one that you decided was the right one right away? So why bother looking for evidence at all if the evidence is irrelevant in your mind?

a reply to: windword
Is this the same van in this still shot as in the other videos? Some show a black van, while others show a white one? Are his clothes the same? I can't tell.

originally posted by: Snarl
A thousand words ...

I'm sorry the guy's dead. I'm sorry for his family. I'm sorry for Baltimore.

But ... the guy was a frikkin' thug. This was a 'sooner or later' event.

What would you do if you saw him casing your home just before your babysitter came by to watch your young daughter?

So summary executions by right wing death squads are now allowed in your United States? Wow... so much for the Constitution.

Derek

originally posted by: Viesczy

originally posted by: Snarl
A thousand words ...

I'm sorry the guy's dead. I'm sorry for his family. I'm sorry for Baltimore.

But ... the guy was a frikkin' thug. This was a 'sooner or later' event.

What would you do if you saw him casing your home just before your babysitter came by to watch your young daughter?

So summary executions by right wing death squads are now allowed in your United States? Wow... so much for the Constitution.

Derek

Errr, Baltimore has been run by Democrats for 50 years, so it'd be left wing death squads.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny
thefourthestate.co...


Hmm, I can't find much more information on this, but it would appear that he did have a prior injury with a large lawsuit against AllState, and possibly multiple previous surgeries. Medical records are private, but the ME's report will likely be released, and they would obviously catch the clear signs of recent major surgery. So we'll have to wait for the 6pm update and see, but here's the basics:

The Fourth Estate has contacted sources who allege that Freddie Gray received spinal and neck surgery a week before we was arrested, and was allegedly receiving a large structured settlement from Allstate Insurance. The surgery is allegedly related to a car accident in which Gray was involved.

Sources allege that Gray also attempted to refinance his structured settlement into one lump sum payment through Peachtree Funding.

If this is true, then it is possible that Gray’s spinal injury resulting from his encounter with the Baltimore Police was not the result of rough-handling or abuse, but rather a freak accident that occurred when Gray should have been at home resting, not selling drugs.

The structured settlement from Allstate and Gray’s attempt to convert it into one lump sum payment has been confirmed by Howard County Circuit Court Records

It's at least interesting considering there is no video or pictures of the guy being beat down. If this turns out to be true, the guy should have at least been seeing after himself and not getting into trouble with police just a week after major surgery.

Then I guess they should have called for medical assistance when he was screaming in agony and begging them to hey?

I had cervical vertebral fusion done twice.
Each time, I had to wear a neck brace for a couple of weeks and the doctor told me that it would be a bad thing to be involved in a car accident before it healed.

"A recent investigation by the Washington Post and Bowling Green State University stated that of the "thousands of people" shot dead by police in America during the last decade, only 54 officers have been charged.

And most of those who were charged were acquitted.

The series examined cases ignored by the national media: a lot of them unarmed people shot at point-blank range. The officers involved always claimed they feared for their lives; juries almost always took their word, even when the victim was shot from behind, execution-style."

www.cbc.ca...

a reply to: NavyDoc

Yep. That's what I'm saying.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Viesczy

originally posted by: Snarl
A thousand words ...

I'm sorry the guy's dead. I'm sorry for his family. I'm sorry for Baltimore.

But ... the guy was a frikkin' thug. This was a 'sooner or later' event.

What would you do if you saw him casing your home just before your babysitter came by to watch your young daughter?

So summary executions by right wing death squads are now allowed in your United States? Wow... so much for the Constitution.

Derek

Errr, Baltimore has been run by Democrats for 50 years, so it'd be left wing death squads.

I'd call it Ultra Left Wing -- Ultra Progressive

originally posted by: Neutrality

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Neutrality

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Neutrality
a reply to: Vasa Croe

better view of his legs, your view is another perspective

A better view or another perspective do not matter. What you stated in your earlier post were untrue and that is clearly shown in the video I posted....he is standing ON HIS OWN on the back of the van, he TURNS HIS HEAD and looks right at the camera, he then DUCKS his head down and bends over and steps into the van ON HIS OWN. There is no other perspective needed here.....

AANNND was driven around for THIRTY MINUTES, stopped once to be shackled and continued to the station. Now honestly, did that look like a person that needed to first go get booked, or first get medical attention?

Funny though, everyone is so quick to jump on the wagon that these officers killed him, when it is MORE likely they have dealt with him before and knew him.....odd there are no other cases coming up where he claimed any police brutality in his years of criminal activity in the same town.....

Making the speculation of a spinal injury that much worse for the cops, they would know about freddie's back problem, I mean since we are speculating.

How would they know about his problem?
There is absolutely no way the police could have known when they arrested him.
They are not mind readers, and he ran, it would not look like he had a problem.
If he has surgery and a spinal problem, what the .... was he doing not wearing his surgical collar and resting, or at least doing very quiet activities.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Agree. No doubt both parties suck. I was just pointing out a parallel with Detroit and it's demise, and I can see the same thing happening in Baltimore.

Chicken and the egg (even though that's apparently been solved).

High crime rates and ghetto people favor democrats. I don't think democrat politicians are entirely to blame. They're a symptom of a bigger problem.