Faster than light speeds—could you see the past?

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: JadeStar

I don't know Jade but might you have got carried away?

Let's look at this realistically, IF the Alcubierre warp drive worked, not only the ship, but all photons following and in front of, as well as accompanying the ship would be swept along, wouldn't they?

Only inside the warp bubble, not outside of it.

How in this case could one look back?

Turn the warp field off.

Wouldn't a position need to be established in order to receive any emissions, and wouldn't the act of establishing a position close the warp?

Nope. We'd establish position using natures "GPS satellites" - Pulsars. Find 3 or 4 and triangulate.

a reply to: JadeStar

It's an interesting thought though isn't it? Because once the warp bubble was turned off then all those trapped photons would be released at the speed of light or...hold on, would the warp bubble contain the photons or would they escape and be scattered as a smear along the direction of travel, randomly emitting and going...where?

If they stayed within the bubble would they bounce around the inside of the bubble, would the walls of the bubble add energy causing an instantaneous light burst and oh the headaches.

White's argument is twofold. first the warp is actually intermittent or at least in constant flux so that photons do not accumulate to the degree popularly stated or stated by those critics who published peer reviewed papers on that. secondly the particles can actually pass to the extent the space curvature allows and once inside the bubble they only travel at their normal space speed. outside the warp region the velocity multiplier disappears. to put it another way lets say the ship accelerates to ten percent c and turns on the warp field. the ten percent accrues to the velocity of the boundary layer or skin of the warp bubble. the space inside being flat there is no further velocity shift to the ship. the expansion and contracting space creates a multiplier effect that applies only to the exterior of the warp bubble skin. the space inside has no reference to the exterior world and its felt velocity does not change from ten percent. the velocity of the bubble on it's outside is multiplied a thousand fold. but the bubble isn't mad of matter so it can do so without prejudice from relativity.

But here's the thing: When the ship turns the warp field off and it reenters normal space it is only going at the speed it had when generating the warp bubble which was 10 percent C. it did not gain any velocity. likewise stuff penetrating the skin of the warp bubble into the interior does not exit the skin with any extra velocity. just the velocity it had when it entered the skin of the warp bubble. it does accelerate while traversing the skin itself but that is not permanent it disappears when it clears the skin region.

This will be fast enough to be dangerous but the danger was always there.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: TheMadTitan
Interesting concept. Say we had wormhole tech, open a wormhole next to earth with the exit say 100 million light years away. Send a telescope through and have it look at our solar system while instantly sending info back through the wormhole. Voila! Front seat tickets on the creation of the earth.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

Um, you'd have to go out to around 4.5 billion light years for that. So it's more like, "Voila! front row seats to the age of the dinosaurs".

Of course such a telescope that could see in that detail from that far away would be bigger than the Wormhole itself. In fact you'd have to send probably millions of small telescopes through the wormhole to create a interferometer the size of a small galaxy to see anything from that distance.

I made an Einstein Rosen-Bridge. My telescope will be equally as advanced, a quantum telescope

originally posted by: TheMadTitan

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: TheMadTitan
Interesting concept. Say we had wormhole tech, open a wormhole next to earth with the exit say 100 million light years away. Send a telescope through and have it look at our solar system while instantly sending info back through the wormhole. Voila! Front seat tickets on the creation of the earth.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

Um, you'd have to go out to around 4.5 billion light years for that. So it's more like, "Voila! front row seats to the age of the dinosaurs".

Of course such a telescope that could see in that detail from that far away would be bigger than the Wormhole itself. In fact you'd have to send probably millions of small telescopes through the wormhole to create a interferometer the size of a small galaxy to see anything from that distance.

I made an Einstein Rosen-Bridge. My telescope will be equally as advanced, a quantum telescope

Have you got a good abstract I can read about your quantum telescope?

Umm, the dog ate it?

a reply to: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: JadeStar

It's an interesting thought though isn't it? Because once the warp bubble was turned off then all those trapped photons would be released at the speed of light or...hold on, would the warp bubble contain the photons or would they escape and be scattered as a smear along the direction of travel, randomly emitting and going...where?

As I understand Alcubierre warp theory (which I'll admit I've only started learning about), the photons which exist within the warp bubble would travel at the same speed they are currently. They do not exceed the speed of light within the warp field. Nothing inside the warp field is actually travelling faster than light. Likewise the pathways of light within the warp field would appear completely normal. So since they were already travelling at the speed of light they'd continue to travel in the same directions at the speed of light.



If they stayed within the bubble would they bounce around the inside of the bubble, would the walls of the bubble add energy causing an instantaneous light burst and oh the headaches.

Nope. Because they aren't travelling any faster than they were before and they aren't going to bounce around since the materials of the ship would absorb them in the normal way. I doubt they'd build a mirrored interior. It'd look like a funhouse

originally posted by: TheMadTitan
Umm, the dog ate it?

a reply to: JadeStar

Don't you hate when that happens? Teachers and profs just don't buy it

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: JadeStar

It's an interesting thought though isn't it? Because once the warp bubble was turned off then all those trapped photons would be released at the speed of light or...hold on, would the warp bubble contain the photons or would they escape and be scattered as a smear along the direction of travel, randomly emitting and going...where?

As I understand Alcubierre warp theory (which I'll admit I've only started learning about), the photons which exist within the warp bubble would travel at the same speed they are currently. They do not exceed the speed of light within the warp field. Nothing inside the warp field is actually travelling faster than light. Likewise the pathways of light within the warp field would appear completely normal. So since they were already travelling at the speed of light they'd continue to travel in the same directions at the speed of light.

If they stayed within the bubble would they bounce around the inside of the bubble, would the walls of the bubble add energy causing an instantaneous light burst and oh the headaches.

Nope. Because they aren't travelling any faster than they were before and they aren't going to bounce around since the materials of the ship would absorb them in the normal way. I doubt they'd build a mirrored interior. It'd look like a funhouse



Inside a warp bubble you would see distortion almost a magnification in front of you behind you it would look like everything was heading to 1 point in space. Outside the warp bubble people would see a lending effect like a magnifying glass being moved across the stars.My question has always been what does it do to space. You contract it than rapidly expand it behind you. Nothing in the universe does this how does space itself react does it vibrate. Does it snap back with extra energy? Does it damage space??

I've always been puzzled why anyone thinks we could go into a future that hasn't happened yet.

The past, is a bit more plausible, because this kind of time travel is a bit more grounded in observation (such as the examples mentioned where seeing light from far away, we're actually looking at the past).

What if:

1) We could go back into the past

but:

2) Could never then "return" because relative to that instant, the "future" hasn't happened yet. (and so any changes to the past wouldn't really matter to others (in the time you left), just YOU, and those trapped in your time, of course).

Basically, the idea that one could go back and then "return" also has to accept the ability to go forward in time as well.

I have serious doubts that the Universe cares if there are two of you in a given time, if you kill your grandfather, etc.

FTL - Could we see the past?


Absolutely.

I've always thought that if we were to achieve ftl, we could put a giant mirror somewhere out there, say 1000 light years away, aim a future-y telescope at that badboy, and look back into our past. It would stand to reason that the reflections from a 1000 light year distance would give us a picture of 2000 years ago, correct?

All it takes is focus... and FTL.

originally posted by: jephers0n
FTL - Could we see the past?


Absolutely.

I've always thought that if we were to achieve ftl, we could put a giant mirror somewhere out there, say 1000 light years away, aim a future-y telescope at that badboy, and look back into our past. It would stand to reason that the reflections from a 1000 light year distance would give us a picture of 2000 years ago, correct?

All it takes is focus... and FTL.

Simpler would be my idea to just send the telescope out there looking at the Earth as it was then and have the telescope send the images back to Earth.

originally posted by: dragonridr
Inside a warp bubble you would see distortion almost a magnification in front of you behind you it would look like everything was heading to 1 point in space. Outside the warp bubble people would see a lending effect like a magnifying glass being moved across the stars.My question has always been what does it do to space. You contract it than rapidly expand it behind you. Nothing in the universe does this how does space itself react does it vibrate. Does it snap back with extra energy? Does it damage space??

Well, we know that black holes do this. They are moving through space/time bending it relative to us.

if wormholes are real physical objects and not just a theoretical artifact they can connect anywhere and any when to any other any where and any when. though there are postulates that are invoked to restrict time travel via artificial wormholes to a large degree; Even if totally valid (which remains to be seen) they would not apply necessarily to natural primordial wormholes.