Introducing persian cats - Iranian F-14AM

a reply to: crazyewok

Yes and no. Like many countries it looks great on paper, but also like many countries they don't get the training time of the better air forces. They're better than many in the region, but not as good as Israel or a Western nation.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'd be willing to say that the Saudis are probably one of the better Middle Eastern nations at employing airpower to win a war. They're not as sharp or hardened as the Israelis but they're at least competent. They get a good amount of training time and support with/from Western nations.

a reply to: justwanttofly

Yes, but what I've heard about that training makes me want to facepalm. They're better than some there, but with the exception of some areas, rank is incumbent on your family, and half the time all they want to do is shoot. That's how it was a few years ago anyway.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I have heard some of those same facepalm stories. From what I've heard a lot of their problems are some of the same ones that plague that region as a whole with regards to flying.

The US has sent countless WIC grads to go "assist and advise" in running their B courses and training programs. But I guess you can bring a horse to water, but still can't force it to not be stupid.

a reply to: justwanttofly

They are to an extent. That's why I said the UAE wouldn't have as many problems. They're actually quite progressive for the region and don't have as many issues along those lines.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Which likely is all Iran wants/needs to be. As someone with many friends in the local Persian ex-pat community here, it's interesting to see their take on Iran's foreign policy (even if they all came here because they were loyal to the Shah and hated the Ayatollahs and the ensuing Iran/Iraq war).

Though they hated the Ayatollahs and Achmadinejad's antics, they also hated the international double-standard about Israel and its nuclear arsenal, especially since they (rightfully so) feel that they as a nation have acted much less belligerently over the past few decades than Israel has. They feel that if Israel has a free pass to defy international law when it comes to Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon and furthermore gets to have nukes so it can bully it's neighbors without fear of reprisal, then why can't Iran have them too?

At the same time, the Persians/Iranians are just as wary of the Arabs, especially given the volatile mix of up-armed gulf states with bristling American-built arsenals and the lawlessness of post-Saddam Iraq. They have a right to be a little paranoid. The Arabs hate the Persians and vice-versa, but only one side essentially has a blank check with which to buy military toys from the U.S. of A., and they worry about what that does to the power balance in the middle east. That tension, to them, is just as serious as their tensions with Israel, even though it gets far, far less airtime in the west.

So in their eyes, they need to be good enough to meet or beat the Arab nations and Pakistan, which they certainly are. Furthermore, their air defences need to be good enough to ensure that a preemptive airstrike from Israel against their nuclear facilities would be far from a cakewalk. Which, again, they arguably are, especially with their improved phoenixes and AWACS-killer missiles coming down the pipeline.

a reply to: Barnalby

Both of those would be a threat to their tankers if they can find them, and if they don't buddy store the last refueling to keep the tankers father out.

Against Israeli pilots the Phoenix won't be nearly as effective as against Iraqi pilots. Especially with Israeli EW systems.

originally posted by: haman10
Hmm . So F-14 with a new radar that has +300km range and BVR missiles with +500km range pose no threat to US F-18s and F-15s ?

F-14 is a Air superiority fighter and is a damn solid one . It cannot go head to head Against F-22 , no way in hell it can .

but it can down fleets of F-18 . damn straight it can .

The fact that Iran chooses a more economic-friendly approach towards its aging fleet has nothing to do with it being "obsolete" .

How many F-14 s does Iran have? How many can you get in the air at one time? What is your turn-around time for the F-14? These are factors that you seem to disregard in all of your assumptions. IF this scenario comes to fruition and if your F-14s take down "fleets" of F-18s do you think that there is going to be somewhere to return to? Combat consists of many layers of operations. While you are defeating the F-18s someone will be destroying your airfields and downing your aerial tankers. The F-14s can't run on air or land on a cloud. The facts are that your Tomcats will lose because they will never get to the merge. They would be shot down before they get airborne just like Iraqis who tried to run to Iran. There's an ole saying in our military: "You can't polish a turd." I hope you all the luck in reinventing the Tomcat but it is not going to be the magic bullet that you hope. You will need a PFM generator for that level of operation and Iran doesn't have that yet.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Even if they're only 30-50% as effective against the Israelis, that's really all they need to make the think twice about just how smoothly an attack would go.

As long as the Iranians and their weapons sustems have the Israelis thinking that a preemptive airstrike has the POTENTIAL, however unlikely, of becoming "Operation Eagle Claw 2: Electric Boogaloo", then they're doing their jobs.

a reply to: Barnalby

BVR combat is the worst type of gamble out there. The average kill rate on BVR combat through Desert Storm was less than 20% on average. That included against relatively poorly trained opponents.

a reply to: haman10

I'm glad to see you on ATS! Especially from Iran. Someone posted here a while ago some beautiful pictures of Iran. I work with Iranians (and Indians, Chinese, Indonesians, Australians, etc) and I can tell you that nobody outside the government wants a war with Iran. All the information you posted was great and you provided links too! So thank you for that.

However, Iran is surrounded by US military bases.
www.google.com...

There's only 44 F-14 Tomcats in service, and that number is debated due to spare parts availability and reports of cannibalization to get the parts.
en.wikipedia.org...

A comparison (recent data) shows that Iran couldn't stand an initial onslaught of air bombardment by the USA and her allies. Saudi Arabia may not be as capable as Iran in pilot and equipment skills (I'm dubious of this), but they don't have to be. They only have to be as good as your second string.
www.globalfirepower.com...

As a matter of fact, if it were between Iran and Saudi Arabia only, Iran would probably have no problem.www.globalfirepower.com...

But in the world we live, that's not the case. Oil pricing has been manipulated to destroy Iran's economy. No money, no nuclear program or weapons. In theory, that works great. But Iran's friends (China and Soviet Union, North Korea) have different plans.

So what does this mean? It means that you and your family and my family and I would probably have a fascinating conversation over dinner and probably become friends. I believe we both want what's best for our families and to see our children have a better life than what we had.

But, it's not about us. It's about resources. That's it. First oil, until renewable kicks in and a break through is made on storage (graphene may be part of this!). Then it will be rare earth's. Need those for technology and weapons. Then it will be for water and food. China's using Iran for oil. Russia uses Iran for weapon purchases and political retribution against the US. Iran uses China for capital investments, money and technology. But the chinese are sneaky. They want to destroy the US with subversive methods with the end goal to destroy us with a collapse of the financial system. They promise Iran with military support in case of war or attack, but it won't come. Ever. Iran uses Russia as a back up military threat against the US and for protection. And this, may actually happen. Russia will collapse again by 2030, but they want one last hurrah. (Read George Friedman - The next 100 years).

I'd love to visit Iran to see it's beauty and to meet their people. I hope things work out for all of us.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Barnalby

BVR combat is the worst type of gamble out there. The average kill rate on BVR combat through Desert Storm was less than 20% on average. That included against relatively poorly trained opponents.

That was 25 years ago. Aren't sensors & radar much better now?

How would a Meteor do?

a reply to: mbkennel

They're better, but so are countermeasures. The numbers would be higher, but it's still going to be a fairly low probability contest unless you get fairly close.

One of the best air to air missiles currently out there is the AAM-4B, developed by Japan. Range is about 75 miles, mach 4-5 top speed, AESA seeker. The UK liked it so much that they were supposed to be working with Japan to improve the Meteor.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You don't really hear allot about Japan in the mainstream as far as military tech goes. But it looks like they will be stepping up there game(offensive that is) AESA seeker you say? very interesting.

a reply to: penroc3

Japan recently made some changes to allow the export of weapons systems. As soon as they did several countries were lined up at their door, as far away as Turkey.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If i am remembering correctly the government or parts of jacanas government wants to rebuild there military pre WWII style, i say let them have at it. I know we(the US) are there but with Korea and China and Russia if the Cow digestions hit the fan japan would be/IS a great jump off island

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm really excited to see where the ATD-X development goes. I have a feeling it may well lead to the best 5th-gen air-superiority fighter this side of the F-22.

a reply to: penroc3

Maybe we'll get military robot mechs?!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Oh, don't worry......their coming. Just a matter of time.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

With all the Lockheed buzz about compact fusion reactors, it's go big or go home...

vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...