The rationality of love, even (especially) for the evil doers

We all know we should love each other and treat others as we want to be treated.

We know the golden rule, we know the "commandments" but very often we feel negative feelings for people that treated us badly.

When people are hurt by others, they forget the "commandments" so they do what? They judge, condemn and feel bad things for others like anger, rage, hatred.

Oh, he is evil, a sociopath, a psychopath, he's crazy, he's selfish, he is hungry for power, he is a materialist, he does whatever it takes to achieve his goals etc etc... Where is the love when we do this?

And then comes the penalties, he is so evil, so he must be punished and pay for what he did/is, he is guilty, its his fault.

So we preach love but WTSHF we are unable to love evil doers.

Let me tell you what's wrong here.

People are not to blame for what they are and what they do, no one should be hated and judged for what they do/are, its like judging/blaming a crocodile by being and behaving like a crocodile.

In fact, peoples actions are very determined by their personality and character, which are determined by external factors they don't control.

Nobody is to blame for genes, education, culture, past traumatic events, lack of parental love etc etc.

People don't really know why they are as they are and they certainly did not choose to be so.

Evil doing is not their fault, they are also victims in all this.

Yes, there must be discipline and penalties to maintain order in society but not because "bad people" deserve it or because they are to blame.

They do not deserve it, they are not to blame, they are also victims.
Why aren't they good? Why cant they decide with goodness?
Is it fair that some of us are good and others are bad? Its like some are cancerous cells...

They need love and help, not judgment and guilt...

Above all, they deserve and need to be loved and helped but, unfortunately, society needs order, penalties must exist, rules and discipline must exist, but all people, good or bad (and specially the bad) are to be loved and helped.

Sorry about the bad English, its not my native language, i´m Portuguese.

Have a good night

Yes!

I have a relevant vid to contribute. You guys will love it.

Or else. 😉



👣

All those poor misunderstood serial killers.

Maybe if I start giving convicted rapists big bear hugs they'll turn to the path of Love.

a reply to: Manula

They have free will and have made their choices. I am not sure what you consider an "evil doer" with your post as another member pointed out, serial killers, serial rapist, pedos, and the mass murders of history need to be fought.

Love them right into a cell or firing squad if you will but when faced with true evil you stand and fight, expose it for what it is, or you submit to it.


If someone slaps you, you may turn the other cheek.

If someone is coming to butcher your family, rape your children, torture your loved ones, or steal your very soul by accepting that behavior as right, You Fight or Flight.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Manula

They have free will and have made their choices. I am not sure what you consider an "evil doer" with your post as another member pointed out, serial killers, serial rapist, pedos, and the mass murders of history need to be fought.

Love them right into a cell or firing squad if you will but when faced with true evil you stand and fight, expose it for what it is, or you submit to it.


If someone slaps you, you may turn the other cheek.

If someone is coming to butcher your family, rape your children, torture your loved ones, or steal your very soul by accepting that behavior as right, You Fight or Flight.

Read again, the behavior may be wrong, laws and penalties should be applied but the evil doer is still a victim who deserves love and help.

Although we need to lock him up, he still is not to blame for who he is and what he does.

Free will is not so free as you guys preach...

originally posted by: FaceMyBook
All those poor misunderstood serial killers.

Maybe if I start giving convicted rapists big bear hugs they'll turn to the path of Love.

Just read again, maybe one day you can achieve it...
If you can understand that people are not so free and conscious as you think, people are not equally conscious and wise and they are not self made.
You guys just don't get it... Maybe one day, you are not there yet lolol

a reply to: Manula
I agree with you that unconditional Love is real and necessary - for this is ultimately what we are. So yes, to truly be able to love everyone unconditionally is a sign of real heart-intelligence. It is an actual sign of truly becoming whole bodily able to feel the Reality (Unity/Light-Energy-Love) we all are and arise in.

With this maturity comes real understanding that our body-mind is responsible for its actions. To think we or others are just the victim of circumstance (or bad genes or whatever) and that we are not responsible for our actions is a sign of immaturity, in my view. Such a person is not truly capable of unconditional love for they are still caught up in a sense of betrayal and victimization. In that mood, loving unconditionally is not yet possible for them.

Everyone of us can feel victimized on this Earth. We all have some apparent justification for this way of thinking because this is a difficult place to grow up and live. And yes, many have more apparent reasons for this feeling of victimization than others - but to grow up is to release this blaming of others and to kick this betrayal-consciousness in the ass. Feeling betrayed is what very young children do to help form a sense of separate identity, and that is fine, they are young children.

But after a certain point, we need to grow out of that blame-game and sense of being the betrayed victim. If we are currently suffering something very traumatic, of course, get help. If we can't get over something in the past, yes, get help. And we should always be compassionate with one another about all of this.

I agree that compassion and education are greatly needed, not just punishment. But if someone is hurting others, they need to be restrained one way or another - AND held accountable for their actions. It sounds like you are saying they are not responsible for their actions - and this I definitely disagree with you on.

The first step to growing out of this childish sense of betrayal and being the victim, is to be held accountable for one's actions, and to become accountable for them. If one is allowed to act however they please, of course, this will create all sorts of problems.

So some real self-understanding, at an early enough age, combined with compassionate accountability, a good diet, etc., will do wonders for the developing child.

For adults who still dramatize the betrayed victim and hurt others, they must be held accountable, restrained if necessary, and helped with some basic human self-understanding.

I agree we should always act compassionately, but we also must be real in terms of what is necessary to grow up and to learn to love based on our actual reality here - and that is, to be held accountable for all of our actions; and optimally in a loving and supportive environment. To allow people to justify violent behavior because of one's upbringing or genetics does not work.

Love and educate people out of their sense of being the betrayed victim, and into love and real accountability.

Its what we are supposed to be, wayshowers and ministers of healing and love. And have great understanding for others, and youths, so that the conditions that exist, such as poverty and lack of resources and opportunities or healing, would be altered in our society and we would create wonderful worlds without elite and corruption so that very very few would even become criminals. Understanding so that real people stand up to the plate together and negotiate using higher mind tactics hopefully and not having to resort to full fledged revolts, a system where some of the criminal things are not illegal, that what is illegal relates to direct harm such as rape, murder, grande theft, and corruption, and the degree relates to the level of responsibility a person has, ie an official carrying much more.

That prison and incarceration is reserved for dangerous people, ie a serial killer or someone dousing a woman with gasoline after raping them, but not for the father who kills the man he finds molesting his child or in the heat of the passion, hunts down and kills a week later, because that falls into the category of what an average person would feel like. And prison has nothing to do with financial things, or drug things.

Financial things, or any other more serious should be electronic bracelet and community service, depending on if its a real harm thing, and things that don't harm others directly, they have no right at all criminalizing.

So real understanding and compassion makes people protect their own children and their neighbors children by addressing the unjust corrupt system and not throwing people's lives away over little things, growing pain for some, and also prompts them to address the system they're living in and create WIN/WIN's, Equality AND Freedom!

Its really important to gain your wisdom and heart, for you can't go on to higher levels supporting police state and punishment and rigid rules unless you want to keep on inheriting an unjust system and reincarnate back over and over or go to a lower nazi realm of abuse.

We're making our next steps here.

Compassion is really important and should also get people to make some changes to the system because the system is extremely corrupt and evil.

Only the very few should even be behind bars, and that shouldn't be about punishment, but healing, those places should be healing centers. Not 200 year Texas style sentences, but open ended to reforming and returning the person.

People should be worked with like life coaching, so that problems are solved, they are given education and removed from slums and able to heal from life addictions, and abuse, and meditation, tao, Bruce Lee philosophies and training, many of the youths and those in prison need Hero's to lead them on, and healing.

And we shouldn't be living in a dog eat dog unequal unjust world where people would complain if prisoners were treated well and given opportunities as if their own children are struggling. We need to overcome our unjust unequal world, and turn each area, region or corner of it, into a wonderful world where no one is struggling or living in unsafe conditions, surrounded by high stress and crime.

Compassion, walking in the shoes of others, UNDERSTANDING, feeling for the inner city youth or abused kid who becomes a criminal, even a serious murdering criminal (and this has nothing to do with whether a person is so far gone that society needs to be protected from them for a period or even all their lives if they are extremely dangerous each year), this is about compassionating them, understanding their walk, being able to project yourself in their moccasins each and every day until their breaking point. Being able to say, that could be my kid if your circumstances were different.

That is the key to waking up more, and striving to work for a just and loving world. Just means social justice not punishment, it never meant punishment. Its a coin with heads or tails and you inherit creation of which side you're like.
But Understanding is the very key to unlocking our ability to create Heaven on Earth.

Without this key, with a punitive unloving, selfish and unequal mindset, you cannot leave lower realms and reach Higher ones, which is all about LOVE, CARETAKING WHOLE SYSTEMS, PURITY OF HEART, GENTLE COMPASSION.

Use the key and graduate this world.

Our criminal system is about fear and power/control to corner the larger population into being slaves for the few.

And we are committing child abuse and enabling psychopaths, and we have to stop, we have to love our children and troubled youths and yes, every so called criminal.

Its pure extortion, for slavery.

And anyone who supports this in any way is an enabler of evil.

originally posted by: bb23108
Love and educate people out of their sense of being the betrayed victim, and into love and real accountability.

Here, here!
I couldn't have said it better myself!


a reply to: Manula

I think I understand where you where going with this thread, but I have to agree with bb23108.
We ARE often greatly influenced by our genes and environment, but at the end of each day, what we've created is our responsibility. If we as a society refuse to stop people from doing harm to themselves and others, we really aren't doing them a favor. Telling them that what they've created isn't their responsibility will just add fuel to their destructive creating, and will not aid in their evolution.

Now on the other hand, do I think we could be doing a better job correcting "evil doers"?
INDUBITABLY! Sorry, I mean, Of Course!

Locking up troubled people with more troubled people just keeps the trouble alive and active. Unconditional Love IS the key here. We need mentors who will take the less disturbed trouble makers under their wings and show them the Love they so despertly need. Someone who can use a firm hand in Love, to correct mistakes and to reveal a new better way of doing life. Sometimes people just need to be led in the right direction.

Do I think this will always work? No. Some people have life lessons that still need to be learned the hard way. But it would be a step in the right direction.

I cant really blame people anymore, i dont buy the responsability blame game anymore. People evolve because they live and living makes them wiser. Its not about blame, responsability, guilt judgement and penalties. People evolve because they go through stuff. You dont need to make people responsible for stuff, things happen and people get wiser and wiser, thats the way of existence, progression through living all kinds of situations and characters.

originally posted by: Manula

I cant really blame people anymore, i dont buy the responsability blame game anymore.

It's not about blaming people. It's about each of us understanding that we are responsible for our body-mind's actions. This is what we teach our children - and certainly adults understand this.

originally posted by: Manula
People evolve because they go through stuff.

Right. And that also involves all of us being held accountable for our actions. Where in this world are people not held accountable for their actions? It is a basic understanding that whatever I do, I am responsible for that.

originally posted by: Manula
You dont need to make people responsible for stuff

That's right - because they already are responsible for whatever they do. How could they not understand this? If they don't, they clearly need educating.

originally posted by: Manula
things happen and people get wiser and wiser, thats the way of existence, progression through living all kinds of situations and characters.

Right, and being held accountable is one of the most effective and just ways people get wiser. It is a simple matter really.

I am unclear why you are so set on people not being responsible for their own actions. It is a basic human understanding. It doesn't have to come across as a blame game - it just needs to be explained very simply and directly - as simple as, "If you put your hand in the fire, it will burn your hand. You are responsible for that action and the pain of being burned."

Please elaborate on your logic more - if you care to. Thank you.

a reply to: bb23108

I just dont believe in judging or blaming the person, you can judge an action but the person should not be judged.
You can assess actions for various motives but you cant point the finger to the doer.

This sums it up.

I think the confusion comes in when the word "love" is interpretted as something you do, rather than something you feel.

I can pull the switch on the electrical chair, while loving the person in it.
I don't like to use the word "blame". Determining responsibility seems more appropriate.
Determining who or what is a danger to society and others is appropriate. Hate just seems... irrelevant. And unhealthy.

a reply to: Manula
I have always agreed with you that we simply should love beings unconditionally, but everyone must also be held accountable for what they do. This is how we learn as children to be responsible for what we do.

And yes, we never hate one's being - but one's body-mind will need to take responsibility for all of its actions. Your opening post seems to say otherwise, but I think I have made my point more than enough by now.

Thanks for the elaboration.

originally posted by: bb23108
a reply to: Manula
I have always agreed with you that we simply should love beings unconditionally, but everyone must also be held accountable for what they do. This is how we learn as children to be responsible for what we do.

And yes, we never hate one's being - but one's body-mind will need to take responsibility for all of its actions. Your opening post seems to say otherwise, but I think I have made my point more than enough by now.

Thanks for the elaboration.

Can you elaborate on what being held accountable is?

I already said that society needs order, rules, and penalties but not because people deserve penalties, they are just needed to ensure order, that's all.

I think that people learn by their mistakes, i think the wrong doing we inflict on others today, will be inflicted to us tomorrow, and its by living all sides of the story, its by being the victim one day, and the aggressor the next day, that beings become wiser.

If you scare people with penalties, they don't change for better, they just stop doing wrong because they are afraid of the stick.

If the stick disappears, people will do wrong again, because they didn't change.

Evolution is not made from responsibility, rules and judgement, it happens because people go through stuff, they make others feel bad, and then others will make them feel bad, and its this dynamics, by being in all sides of the story that evolution comes.

I believe in reincarnation by the way.

In one life you are victim and then in the other you are the aggressor and eventually, by going through stuff, you become wiser and evolve.

originally posted by: Manula
Can you elaborate on what being held accountable is?

I already said that society needs order, rules, and penalties but not because people deserve penalties, they are just needed to ensure order, that's all.

Yes, such rules are necessary unfortunately given our heart-based intelligence and inherent morality are not what is obvious to most people.

Being held accountable means that first people are educated as children and clearly understand that they are responsible for their own actions. Then, the parents and teachers with the children at first, and later the greater society, hold everyone accountable for any actions that hurt another, etc.

originally posted by: Manula
I think that people learn by their mistakes, i think the wrong doing we inflict on others today, will be inflicted to us tomorrow, and its by living all sides of the story, its by being the victim one day, and the aggressor the next day, that beings become wiser.

I suppose, but we don't have to constantly re-enact that cycle if we would really bring up children with love, real education, and a great diet. So few kids eat right, and this can affect much of their body's development because the physical is what is so actively growing, especially the first seven years or so.

Then the emotional, where true morality can be taught, feeling in relationship with others, empathy, etc.; and finally, the mental development. But in the West their mental development is overly emphasized at a very early age, and so children get less educate in these first two stages of developing the body and heart-based feeling-emotion.

If children really learned to feel, that would go a very long way toward helping with these morality issues later in life.

originally posted by: Manula
In one life you are victim and then in the other you are the aggressor and eventually, by going through stuff, you become wiser and evolve.

Yeah, if all us adults grew up, our children would be that much wiser! Our hearts actually know what is moral, we just have never learned to feel with the whole body-mind to infinity. If we practiced and taught our children this, the learning process would be much more straightforward, without having to apply so many rules.

a reply to: bb23108

Education is important but souls want to live it.
You can tell someone whats right but he will still have to live and learn by his own experience.
Its not by saying whats right or by saying one is responsable, the learning and the wisdom will come from living it, so its important to let others be free so they can go through all the situations they need to live.

originally posted by: bb23108


If children really learned to feel, that would go a very long way toward helping with these morality issues later in life.

Children don't need to learn to feel. We are born feeling but not thinking. Sight is a feeling and hearing is a feeling - children see and hear and feel the environment - they put things in their mouths to feel them, taste them, get a sense of them.
Children grow in an environment where they are told to be good and not be bad. Children are loved one minute by their parents and are made to feel bad if they don't do what the parents and society tells them to do, or be what they are supposed to be.
A child has been taught that the mind and education and knowledge is important. In many homes feelings are not important - what is important is that you don't make a mess, or any noise or that home work is done - one must be good.
Is being 'good' going to produce a contented adult?

Children feel but when the mind (thinking) starts up, thought will start telling stories about where better feelings can be found and how to avoid bad feelings. The mind will be strategizing and what is actually happening presently will be missed. What is appearing as sight and sound - the texture of what is - is clouded by thoughts on how to make life feel better.