Republican Congress Strips Women and Gays of Rights Under Guise of ‘Religious Freedom’

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: beezzer

Actually, you don't have the right to get bakeries to break discrimination laws, so no, asking for an anti-gay or kkk cake is still not the same as a gay couple wanting a cake for a wedding.

It's my cake, I can have whatever I want on it.

It's not against the law.

What part of the cake decoration is discriminating?

Who is being discriminated from my cake decorations?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: beezzer

They just want to remove the separation of church and state and also remove all religious freedom in this country... next they will be trying to legislate what can be preached from the pulpit and what we should believe...

that is exactly what this "outrage" is about.. that a private religious institution should self govern according to their constitutional rights and not be governed according to secular public laws and secular public rules...

I've already been "schooled" by these folks.

respect is dead.

I'll accept that.

But now I want a cake done by a Muslim baker with the picture of the prophet smoking a stogie and drinking a bottle of scotch.

I want to go to a LGBT bakery and have a cake made that says, "Gays suck!"

I want a Christian baker to make a "Hail Satan" cake for my devil-worshipping in-laws!

I'm the damned customer!

I have the law of public accommodation behind me!

But now I have people saying that I can't get it.

That it is okay for the business to discriminate.

That it would offend the bakeries if I forced them to serve me!

a reply to: beezzer

For the love of gods and goddesses! There never was a law that said you could get whatever you wanted on a cake. There is a law that says you can't be refused the same cake that is sold to everyone else just because you belong to a certain group!

Holy hell.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

For the love of gods and goddesses! There never was a law that said you could get whatever you wanted on a cake. There is a law that says you can't be refused the same cake that is sold to everyone else just because you belong to a certain group!

Holy hell.

So no-one is allowed to get decorations on cakes?

I want customized cake decorations. Bakers do it all the time!

They say "Happy Birthday Murtle" and "Best Wishes George".

I'm the customer, I want what I want on the cake! MY CAKE!

I pay for it, why am I being discriminated against?

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: mOjOm

That is the entirety of what this thread is about! Let me get the links again and I will show you!

Sorry, that was my mistake for not being clear. I mean besides the two bills in this thread, can you give me other examples of actual bills being introduced that are attempting to remove the separation of church and state??? Bills that are also from the Left, LGBT, etc. not the Religious Right.

a reply to: beezzer

Let me see if I can make this as simple as possible:

A baker can refuse any specific decoration that they can't or don't want to do. That includes any pictures, phrases, slogans, symbols, etc. That means they won't do this specific decoration for anyone. For example, a baker may object to decorating a penis on a cake - they just won't do that for anyone, regardless of who asks for it. That is NOT discrimination.

The baker does NOT have the right to refuse to sell you the same exact cake that he/she would sell to the next guy that comes in, just because you are a member of a group that the baker doesn't like. For example, if the baker was willing to decorate a penis on a cake for a straight woman's bachelorette party, but refused to do the same penis cake for a gay party - THAT is discrimination.

I don't know how that could be made any simpler.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Do bakers decorate cakes?

Do bakers write words on cakes?

What difference does the words mean?

Words are just words. they get paid by the letter.

I will pay them.

I could give a damn about respecting what they "like" or "dislike".


It's not about them.

It's about me as the customer. And I am in the right, as a customer.

They opened a business to sell decorated cakes.

PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION!

I want a decorated cake and I want it decorated how I want it decorated.

If I am a gay person, and I want "Happy Wedding, Bob and Beezzer", then they have to DO IT!

I don't care!

If I want that same Christian baker to make a cake that says, "Happy Satan Day" then it is my right!

If I want a cake from a Muslim baker that has a picture of the Prophet and it says, "Happy Ramadan" then that it my right as a customer!

a reply to: mOjOm

THIS law was repealed by left wingers... and unrepealed by right wingers..

as far as the rest, just like everyone else is wanting to talk about - but outside the scope of this thread.. saying that a religious business owner has lost all religious freedom in this country just because they decided to open their own business...

I don't think a religious person should have less rights with their own business than if they were to work for Walmart, for instance... and that is also brought forward by the LGBT in the crowd..

under the equal opportunity employment laws, a religious person has the right to reasonable accommodation for their religious observances.. this means that if I work for a large company and it offends my religious beliefs I can decline certain jobs..

BUT, according to the LGBT communities, I should not have that right if I decide to go into business for myself...

Just like this attempt to repeal the 1977 law which protects private religious organizations and makes sure their constitutional right to freedom of religion is not infringed upon..this is being touted by the LGBT crowd here on ATS as some kind of an attack on them... when they are doing nothing but trying to force the government to step in and take away the religious freedom of private religious organizations...

When are they going to try to force laws about what can be preached from the pulpit? Cause that seems to be next..

Harvard can discriminate against the mentally challenged, but a privately held catholic school cannot say you can only attend our school if you are a practicing catholic? You can have the right to reasonable accommodation for religious observances but only if you work for a large corporation?

None of this makes sense... and it is trying to remove the separation between church and state, and trying to allow government to dictate religion to the religious...

I am the customer.

I am protected by the law of Public Accommodation.

I want business to be my bitch.

I will pay them to do what I want because they opened a business to serve the public and I am the public and to hell with their beliefs or traditions.

I want them to dance for me.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
It’s Going National: Republican Congress Strips Women and Gays of Rights Under Guise of ‘Religious Freedom’

The House of Representatives just voted to revoke the Reproductive Health Non-Discrimination Act, which would mean that women living in the District of Columbia can be fired from their jobs for using birth control, having an abortion, becoming pregnant by in-vitro fertilization, or simply becoming pregnant out of wedlock if it offends the religious sensibilities of their employers. At the same time, the Republican-controlled House is repealing the Human Rights Amendment Act, which would allow religious schools to discriminate against their LGBT students

It’s the next battle in the efforts by Republican Christian evangelical extremists to forcibly impose their beliefs on the rest of America, with very alarming theocratic implications. They know that the majority of Americans don’t believe in their archaic and repressive 18th-century vision of twisted morality and mandatory piety, but are unable to recognize that America has moved on, into a new age where human potential and expression are not restricted by extremist’s overbearing efforts at social control

Freedom is one’s right to live their lives as they see fit, to make the choices that they choose to make, free from the judgement of others. Freedom does not give you the selfish right to force people around you to change their lives just to suit your own particular vision of the world, especially when their actions do not affect you in any way.

Why are they so afraid of progress?

"Freedom is one’s right to live your life and run your business as you see fit, to make the choices that you choose to make, free from the judgement of others. Freedom does not give them the selfish right to force you to hire them or maintain their employment just to suit their own particular vision of the world, especially when their actions affect others only because they decide to stuff it in the faces of others demanding...ACCEPT ME! and GIVE ME SPECIAL RIGHTS!"

A slight adjustment. Special treatment is not fair and not equal. If you can't get along with the rest of the world which is full of different opinions, they maybe the problem is YOU...not the others that wish to express their opinions just like you do. The only difference is you don't like their opinion. And while they don't like yours...they are bad guys, but you not liking theirs is fine.

Lets face facts...there will always be people who don't like you or your opinion. Scream it at a job interview or during working hours and maybe your boss will decide that isn't good for HIS business and tell you to leave. Whose fault is that? And what do you want? A law stating that the owner of the business has to put up with anyone, with any opinion who speaks it at work?

Hypocrites.

a reply to: beezzer

I know you know what discrimination means. I know you know what the law says and what it doesn't say.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself and talking to what appears to be an automated posting. See ya.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
Until congress is an actual representation of the country all this regression means is its about money. I don't believe the representatives believe in anything or represent anything but their own bank accounts.

Its not like they were appointed...they were voted in by people sick of the PC BS that Obama and his kind spews. Therefore, I would say it DOES represent the people. At least partially.

originally posted by: newWorldSamurai
IDK. The whole "baker doesn't have to make a cake for the gay couple" is on thing. I can understand both sides of that. But this may be pushing it too far.

As long the person's private life doesn't affect their work performance, that's none of the business's GD business.

You seem like one of the more logical people here. Let me try this. With the baker story...how did he know they were gay? You see, such people claim in one breath that "it is no one else's business" but then screams (figuratively) "I AM GAY...ACCEPT ME!". Sorry but "no"...at least as long as people are allowed their own opinion. It is a fundamental human right to decide what you do and don't like, approve, respect, etc. Some people will never like gay people. Sorry...it is a fact and part of a free society with free minded people.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: beezzer

I know you know what discrimination means. I know you know what the law says and what it doesn't say.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself and talking to what appears to be an automated posting. See ya.

I'm just exercising my rights as a customer.

A business owner has no rights and cannot discriminate.

Sorry you dislike an approach that lacks ""respect" but as we all know now, legislation has replaced respect.

Get a good look.

'Cause this is what it'll look like.

a reply to: beezzer

For example, If you ask the bakery to put "hail the KKK" on a cake that's promoting discrimination and their businese could get in trouble with discrimination laws...

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: beezzer

For example, If you ask the bakery to put "hail the KKK" on a cake that's promoting discrimination and their businese could get in trouble with discrimination laws...

Bull.

That's all about the 1st Amendment. Government cannot make any law abridging the freedom of speech.

And if that's what I want on my cake, then THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT!

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Once upon a time, I saw that a charitable organisation was hiring for a position I was qualified for, during a time I was looking for work.

It seemed a lovely job, and really the type of organization that I would have enjoyed working for.. but there was something I didn't know until I saw the job application.. (just my ignorance that was I guess.. lol) What I had not known until I went to drop off my resume and pick up an application for employment.. was that the charitable organization was a religious one..

It was sad to me at the time.. as I was not the correct religion to work there (and they wanted a letter of recommendation from the pastor of your church, and the church had to be a specific kind of church, and you had to have been attending said church faithfully for at least one year..) and I didn't qualify for that part..

I guess this was important to them, as they were a charity that was affiliated with one specific religion and so they wanted their workers to represent that religion to the public..

and even though I didn't qualify then for that job, for that reason, I didn't get mad about it either.. that is their right under the constitution as we have something called separation of church and state..

I don't expect a Mosque to be forced under non discrimination laws to hire a Methodist preacher... and I don't expect the Methodist church to loose the right to have only a practicing Methodist as their receptionist.. these are private organizations, and as such should have the right to represent themselves how they wish to the community, and to themselves...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: poncho1982

Oh really? Are there then special wedding cakes for fat couples and special wedding cakes for ugly couples and special wedding cakes for people who don't plan to have children and special wedding cakes for people who have red hair or are left-handed? Wonder what special ingredients are in all these special wedding cakes that makes them so special?

I'm not the one who's sad here.

Ah, see you are referring to the ingredients list, I am referring to the effort, and craftsmanship that goes into a wedding cake.

You're forgiven for your confusion, but my point is still valid, no matter how many times you try to ignore it.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: kaylaluv

Do bakers decorate cakes?

Do bakers write words on cakes?

What difference does the words mean?

Words are just words. they get paid by the letter.

I will pay them.

I could give a damn about respecting what they "like" or "dislike".


It's not about them.

It's about me as the customer. And I am in the right, as a customer.

They opened a business to sell decorated cakes.

PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION!

I want a decorated cake and I want it decorated how I want it decorated.

If I am a gay person, and I want "Happy Wedding, Bob and Beezzer", then they have to DO IT!

I don't care!

If I want that same Christian baker to make a cake that says, "Happy Satan Day" then it is my right!

If I want a cake from a Muslim baker that has a picture of the Prophet and it says, "Happy Ramadan" then that it my right as a customer!

Beezzer, you are just completely blowing their view apart! LOVE IT!

Nothing like using people's own viewpoints against them!

No matter how much they try to deflect and ignore, it's comical to watch someone being made a fool of!

Good show!

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: beezzer

For example, If you ask the bakery to put "hail the KKK" on a cake that's promoting discrimination and their businese could get in trouble with discrimination laws...

Bull.

That's all about the 1st Amendment. Government cannot make any law abridging the freedom of speech.

And if that's what I want on my cake, then THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT!

Freedom of speech is much more than words. It would be better worded as freedom of expression. If I wish to express my opinion and I'm not breaking the law...I'm allowed. If I decide to do that by refusing to lift a finger to support a marriage I feel should not be allowed...that is my choice. I shouldn't be forced to support anything I don't believe in.