Important 2nd Amendment Court Case

Hollis vs. Holder is in a Dallas, TX courthouse right now and the judge is hearing oral arguments to determine if the case will proceed or be dismissed.

Hollis vs. Holder challenges the constitutionality of the Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. In other words, if this case is successful, the law that bans civilian sale of newly-manufactured machineguns would be deemed unconstitutional.

What this means for gun owners is that the days of $20,000 M16's would go away. Purchasers of machineguns would still have to go through the lengthy and complicated registration/approval process but newly-manufactured full-auto firearms would finally be available to civilians that are willing to submit to a full FBI background check, paperwork, $200 tax, several months wait time, etc.

For the folks who are unfamiliar, machineguns are legal to purchase and own in most states. The purchaser must go through a lengthy and complicated registration and approval process through the ATF. They also have to pay a $200 tax on each machinegun they purchase. Currently, the only machineguns that can be purchased by civilians are those manufactured before 1986 which leads to a limited collector's market and artificially inflated pricing. Only one legal machinegun has been used in a crime since 1934 and that was by a police officer. Even though most semi-automatic firearms are fairly easy to convert to fire fully-automatic, machineguns make up a statistically insignificant portion of firearms used in illegal activity.

For those who are unfamiliar with the Hughes Amendment and the downright unlawful way it was passed, you can read more here.

Anybody who would pay $20,000 for an M-16 would have to have a hole in their head.
It is not hard to get full auto fire from an AR for a fraction of that.
There are legal modifications that will enable emptying a 30 round clip in under 2 seconds, if that's your thing.

Although I agree with the rigmarole of making sure it ends up in safe hands...
People should still be allowed to buy whatever gun they like...


$20,000 is crazy though...
In Lebanon you can buy a brand new Machine Gun for about 5k...
Used for a grand...
New Handguns are more expensive than used MGs.


It'd cost me about 8k to get a SMG brand new which is about $12k...
That'd be illegally though...

Legally I'm allowed to have a shotgun or a handgun that takes gunpowder...
How's that for limitations.




The high price to pay shows a real willingness to purchase and look after such an asset though rather than use it willynilly and throw it all away.
Hope the guy wins this, all people mentally sound enough should be allowed whichever gun/bazooka/tank has been manufactured or else tyranny wins.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Anybody who would pay $20,000 for an M-16 would have to have a hole in their head.
It is not hard to get full auto fire from an AR for a fraction of that.
There are legal modifications that will enable emptying a 30 round clip in under 2 seconds, if that's your thing.

Many people who buy machineguns do so for the investment value.

Full-auto fire is fairly pointless but people always want what they can't have.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Although I agree with the rigmarole of making sure it ends up in safe hands...
People should still be allowed to buy whatever gun they like...


$20,000 is crazy though...
In Lebanon you can buy a brand new Machine Gun for about 5k...
Used for a grand...
New Handguns are more expensive than used MGs.

Yep, the only machineguns that can be legally owned by civilians were made prior to May of 1986. That law has caused a very limited market and the values continue to rise.

A dealer with the proper licensing and paperwork can buy a new M-16 for about $800 to use for demonstration to Law Enforcement agencies.

The machinegun market is very similar to the classic car market.

a reply to: Answer

So basically for 30 years they've been making MGs that people cannot purchase but can be used against them by authority...
I think that's as disgusting as me being limited to a gunpowder handgun.
Which is pretty disgusting.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Answer

So basically for 30 years they've been making MGs that people cannot purchase but can be used against them by authority...
I think that's as disgusting as me being limited to a gunpowder handgun.
Which is pretty disgusting.

Exactly right.

Wait, I didn't recognize you because your avatar isn't a picture of you... why are we agreeing on something? This doesn't feel right...

a reply to: Answer

The law should have never been passed and it should be overturned in court, but if it is there are going to be some people who lose a whole lot of money that invested in pre 1986 fully autos.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Answer

The law should have never been passed and it should be overturned in court, but if it is there are going to be some people who lose a whole lot of money that invested in pre 1986 fully autos.

The investors are the main voices against this case.

I personally know a guy with well over a million dollars tied up in machineguns but most of them weren't purchased solely as investments.

a reply to: Answer

I am sure they are against it like with your acquaintance with the million dollar investment it would overnight be reduced to an investment measured in the thousands.

A few months ago I got to hold one of the ones used in the St Valentines Day Massacre. Kinda heavy but sure was pretty.

a reply to: mikell

I am pretty sure that if a weapon can be confirmed that it was used in the commission of a crime it is seized then destroyed.

Unless things were done differently back then.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: mikell

I am pretty sure that if a weapon can be confirmed that it was used in the commission of a crime it is seized then destroyed.

Unless things were done differently back then.

Nah, there are plenty of firearms in museums that were used in crimes.

When the law becomes unjust, I stop obeying the law. I don't care what they do anymore. The time for talking is done. Keep taking and taking so you'll push the good people to the brink. I want them to destroy your paradigm.

a reply to: Answer

If they are in museums aren't they still in possession of the state at that point?

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Answer

So basically for 30 years they've been making MGs that people cannot purchase but can be used against them by authority...
I think that's as disgusting as me being limited to a gunpowder handgun.
Which is pretty disgusting.

Exactly right.

Wait, I didn't recognize you because your avatar isn't a picture of you... why are we agreeing on something? This doesn't feel right...

It's a conspiracy site. This place is full of weird stuff

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Answer

If they are in museums aren't they still in possession of the state at that point?

That I don't know but the poster above didn't state where he held the firearm so I'm assuming it was in a museum of some sort.

I very seriously doubt that any firearm that was actually used in the V-Day massacre is in a private collection and not on display somewhere.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Bonnie and Clyde's car is on display in Nevada.

Two of their guns were sold at an auction not too long ago.

There's always a market and an interest in the macabre.

a reply to: Answer

Full-auto fire is fairly pointless but people always want what they can't have

that there is only a half truth, granted spraying and praying is pointless except to maybe make the enemy keep their heads down. controlled bursts are a very effective.
plus if that was the case they military's of the world wouldn't continue to develop machine guns, sub machine guns, and select fire rifles with burst control fire mechanisms.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: skunkape23
Anybody who would pay $20,000 for an M-16 would have to have a hole in their head.
It is not hard to get full auto fire from an AR for a fraction of that.
There are legal modifications that will enable emptying a 30 round clip in under 2 seconds, if that's your thing.

Many people who buy machineguns do so for the investment value.

Full-auto fire is fairly pointless but people always want what they can't have.

That's because in warfare, full auto is used for suppression and not so much for killing people. You can do FAR more damage with semi-auto than you can with full auto.