Racism in the Bible

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I consider the Golden Rule to more of a Golden Guideline. It's clearly good advice, but one shouldn't adhere to it dogmatically since you can easily trip it up with specific situations where the others wouldn't like what you like doing to yourself.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yeah, I hear ya.
A 'suggestion'.
Not a "law".

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Wow. Idea for a thread: "The Golden Rule" in the context of "I am a worthless, hellbound sinner and so I am going to treat you like you, too are a worthless sinner!!"


No.
Just no.
Poisonous thinking. But - thanks for the epiphany! - I am seeing your point, totally.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

To me though, this highlights a very REAL problem with Christianity that no one seems to talk about much.

Whoa-- You took another shot at just Christianity. Why just Christianity? Why not name the other religions who are against the booty pumpers? That shows me the hypocrite that you are. How about Islam who cuts their heads off or orthodox Judaism who killed them in various ways? Why is it your hate for Christianity so overwhelming that it makes you so blind?

So God and Jesus are racist and the bible has twisted morality. So in effect what you are saying is that the unnatural filthy, disease ridden act of homosexuality and lesbian practice is moral. That is exactly what you have just reasoned. Then so be it. Nothing more to be said is there?

a reply to: Seede

Why is it your hate for Christianity so overwhelming that it makes you so blind?

So God and Jesus are racist and the bible has twisted morality. So in effect what you are saying is that the unnatural filthy, disease ridden act of homosexuality and lesbian practice is moral.

Your hatred for homosexuality and homosexuals has made YOU blind.

a reply to: Seede

Anyone reading here can see plainly the hate for Christ
in this thread. It fails miserably for all who know him.
Those who do not or are undecided, should tread lightly
here in this pit of vipers. The Creator will do as he sees fit,
with his creation, period.

End of story.

originally posted by: randyvs
Anyone reading here can see plainly the hate for Christ
in this thread. It fails miserably for all who know him.

Do you have an opinion on why there is no consensus amongst believers to what the messages of Christ, and the Bible are? If so many people have a real and personal relationship with Christ, in which he speaks to them and guides them, why is he delivering such mixed messages? He moves some to accept homosexuals while encouraging others to oppress them. He assures some all of the Old Testament laws are still to be obeyed, but tells others those things were for a different time. There is no doubt in the minds of many an eternal torture in hellfire awaits the unsaved, but yet others know that's not part of God's plan... There are many many examples of things like this.

Where is the consistency!? Why the mixed messages?

What's your opinion?

Those who do not or are undecided, should tread lightly
here in this pit of vipers.

I would urge those who don't know or are undecided to tread lightly when considering the Bible as fact. Study this subject from all sides, and objectively. I've said it before and I will say it again. This stuff doesn't stand up to scrutiny!

The Creator will do as he sees fit,
with his creation, period.

Most megalomaniac dictators do the same.

End of story.

Case closed.

a reply to: randyvs

I don't think pointing out incongruities and inconsistencies in the "official" timeline is a demonstration of hatred for Christ though Randy. One doesn't need to believe in the historicity if the subject to appreciate the message attributed to him whether he was a real historical figure or not. Nor does pointing out the sime fact that SO many of his modern and past followers seem to hide behind their religion as justification for their perpetuity of hateful attitudes. The litany of hate and ignorance aimed at homosexuals for example is not something that is actually attributed to either Jesus or the NT for example. If god made all of us in his image that would include his LGBT children as well would it not? The real hatred I often see them a specific target of seems to me, in opposition to his message of love and acceptance. What you view as hatred for the messenger is in actuality hatred for those who use his message or as is too frequently the case, a twisting of the message, to rationalize and justify their own hateful and ignorant stance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attempting to paint all Christians with so broad a brush stroke as I've had the pleasure to know many Christians who don't preach or emanate such hate filled and spiteful rhetoric do I know it's not a community wide point of view. But at the same time, it would be dishonest to ignore and excuse such behavior that is entirely antithetical to the message of orace, love, tolerance and forgiveness. On the other side of that coin, I can't say that agnostics and atheists are given the same margin of respect or tolerance that I am willing to extend to believers. Anyone, a believer or not, who supports such hateful attitudes should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't do anything positive to further mankind and we should all try to be more respectful all around, wouldn't you agree?

originally posted by: Seede
Whoa-- You took another shot at just Christianity. Why just Christianity? Why not name the other religions who are against the booty pumpers? That shows me the hypocrite that you are. How about Islam who cuts their heads off or orthodox Judaism who killed them in various ways? Why is it your hate for Christianity so overwhelming that it makes you so blind?

I'll clear things up for you. I can't speak for Krazysh0t, only myself. However I do feel at least some of my response will apply to him as well, from what posts of his I've read.

I don't just take issue with Christianity. I take issue with all religion. The reason you don't ever see posting harsh criticism of other religions, such as Islam, is because I don't know enough about them to hold my ground in a debate. I've never read the Qur'an, so I wouldn't be able to quote it and point all all the flaws. Likewise with other religions and their holy texts.

I also don't hate Christians themselves. Or Muslims. Or any of them. If all that stuff works for you, and you find comfort in it. That's great. I will start taking issue with people when those beliefs start effecting others in a negative way. Such as heads getting cut off. But I don't broad brush the whole group because of the actions of some.

And my problems with religion get re-enforced. Because more often then not, the people cutting off heads, or gay bashing or (take your pick), feel they are doing their God's work. And their holy texts can be interpreted to back them up.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Case closed.

For you, which is exacly why it is useless to reconcile
any of the obtuse questions you put forth. Your mind is
made, so enjoy your life of no appreciation. You're it!
The most intelligent being that has ever existed, nothing
gave you life and you're here out of your own miraculous
determination.
Never mind that this is far more to fathom than creation.
You are merely someone who doesn't have the slightest idea
where hence comest thou? Why thou art here? And you damn
sure have no idea, where you're going. At all! Do you?

So if you don't know where you're going? I guess it could be hell
just as easily, as it could be, any where else. The Bible is explicit
in answering your chidish redundant cookie cutter questions.
So quit trying to bring others down over the happiness that
seems impossible to you. We all know how you can choose to
look at the truth. We thank God we we're lucky enough to
see in far more depth.

Sorry about your luck.



In twothousand years who will you make smile?

a reply to: peter vlar



All I can say Peter is God, the same as you and I,
finds somethings humans do to be detestable and
abominations. Clearly sex if it has any meaning beyond
self gratification, it is procreation. Doesn't matter as
much to me what I think about anything. It matters
more to me what he knows. And I would imagine God
knowing that it is wrong for a man to lay with a man.
It's not up to me to decide who God is and what he
hates or condemns.

originally posted by: randyvs
For you, which is exacly why it is useless to reconcile
any of the obtuse questions you put forth. Your mind is
made, so enjoy your life of no appreciation. You're it!

So you have no good answers? If you have the answers why would you not want to share them? If not for me, then for others who may not have come to the same conclusions I have?

Also, I can appreciate life as much as anyone! And I do!

The most intelligent being that has ever existed, nothing
gave you life and you're here out of your own miraculous
determination.
Never mind that this is far more to fathom than creation.
You are merely someone who doesn't have the slightest idea
where hence comest thou? Why thou art here?

Well sure I have pondered these things. Who hasn't asked such questions? Perhaps on a clear, starry summer's night. Amazed at the vastness of it all. I personally found the questions didn't lead to answers involving a God.

And you damn
sure have no idea, where you're going. At all! Do you?

I have no afterlife beliefs, but I don't absolutely know there is nothing.

So if you don't know where you're going? I guess it could be hell
just as easily, as it could be, any where else. The Bible is explicit
in answering your chidish redundant cookie cutter questions.

No. I am as sure there is no Biblical Hell, as you are that there is.

So quit trying to bring others down over the happiness that
seems impossible to you. We all know how you can choose to
look at the truth. We thank God we we're lucky enough to
see in far more depth.

Where did I try to bring anyone down? We don't need to get into a debate over the existence of God here.. All I did was encourage people to study the subject objectively. Not with feelings. Thanks for being so much "luckier" than I in your deep understanding.. I'll have you know I am a former Christian so I don't criticize without ever having experienced it.

Sorry about your luck.

I do feel lucky, in some regards.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

So you have no good answers?

Is that what I said? Why didn't you quote that?

No you're the one who has no good answers to anything.
i suggest you keep that clearly in mind amigo.

a reply to: randyvs

It's not up to me to decide who God is and what he
hates or condemns.

LOL You just did.

a reply to: windword

LOL You just did.

Um no I didn't. Did I?

a reply to: randyvs

You have defined a God that matches your imagination.

a reply to: windword


Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

a reply to: randyvs

I never said that. It was a probing question. Because you supplied no thoughts on my questions. Other than to say they could be found in the Bible.

I'm really not trying to be antagonistic with you. You haven't asked me any questions about why I'm an atheist, so of course I have supplied you with zero answers.

You can tell me all day and night that I just haven't studied the word of God enough, and that I haven't opened my heart up. Take your pick of reasons why you think I'm an atheist, and assume I hate God.

And I can tell you all day and night you're not studying the Bible with enough objectivity and scrutiny, and that you've closed your mind to reality.

In the end we are both satisfied with our positions. We both have studied the subject. We have both come to different conclusions. Can't we just agree to disagree?

I only encourage people to be careful about treating the Bible as fact. You encouraged them to be wary of vipers.

Let people come to their own conclusions, without emotion involved.

I don't care that you're a Christian. I don't hate Christians.

Do you dislike me because I'm an atheist? Do you hate atheists?

Anyway, nice chatting. Cheers.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Krazysh0t

To me though, this highlights a very REAL problem with Christianity that no one seems to talk about much.

Whoa-- You took another shot at just Christianity. Why just Christianity? Why not name the other religions who are against the booty pumpers?

Perhaps, and I'm not trying to answer for Krazyshot here but, perhaps it's because the topic of the thread is "Racism in the Bible". Not the Torah or Talmud, not the Q'ran, not the writings of Confucius and not Buddhist or Hindu Vedas.

And why did you feel the need to add the slur "booty pumpers"? Does it make you feel better about your position? Does it give an air of authoritarianism do denigrate and slur? You are aware aren't you that many, many heterosexual couples engage in anal sex right? Or that you can be in a homosexual relationship(2 men is my point of reference) and NOT engage in anal sex? It does nothing to add to your point except for reinforce your ignorant hatred of something you clearly do not understand.

That shows me the hypocrite that you are. How about Islam who cuts their heads off or orthodox Judaism who killed them in various ways? Why is it your hate for Christianity so overwhelming that it makes you so blind?

Again, THIS THREAD is about racism in the BIBLE, a 4th and 5th century Roman construct to institute their governments supremacy, uniting all religion in the empire under the banner of Christianity. If you want to make a thread about the attitudes of the other Abrahamic faiths towards non hetero type sexual practices then please do! I'm all for pointing out ignorance and hypocrisy no matter its origin. We can talk about how in Iran for example, homosexuality is punishable by death but gender reassignment surgery is acceptable under their interpretation of the Q'ran and how many homosexuals are stigmatized into under going these procedures in order to avoid being put to death.

So God and Jesus are racist and the bible has twisted morality.

I don't think that most people here are implying or stating that god or jesus are racist. They are saying that a couple dozen books, compiled over a millennia and a half and claimed to be the infallible word of god are racist. In other words, the area where these books were originally written down and the time periods in which it all took place, were rife with racist attitudes and that in the 21st century we should be able to move beyond anachronistic bronze age control mechanisms.

So in effect what you are saying is that the unnatural filthy, disease ridden act of homosexuality and lesbian practice is moral. That is exactly what you have just reasoned. Then so be it. Nothing more to be said is there?

So it isn't actually your theological background that instills this thought process within you, its your own personal biases and you simply hide behind religion to justify your hatred for others. So much for love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek!

Let's look at a couple of your statements...

Unnatural acts... implies that humans alone in the animal kingdom engage in homosexuality. This is completely false and it occurs far more frequently in the animal kingdom than you would ever want to know about. It is not at all unnatural from that perspective.

Filthy... its a matter of the practice involved as well as the individuals involved. The inference seems aimed solely at male on male sexuality as there really isn't anything that could be construed as "filthy" when referring to a lesbian couple aside from your personal aversion to it. Going back to a male on male act... the level of filthiness from a clinical perspective isn't nearly as filthy as you may want to believe or have been taught and furthermore, there are many prophylactic steps that can be taken to avoid unnecessary messiness.

Disease ridden... again, with the appropriate prophylactic steps, disease transmission is no more a concern than it is in heterosexual couples. And STD rates vary with heterosexual contact vs homosexual contact. some diseases are more prevalent in homosexual men while others are far more prevalent in heterosexual men.

Overall, homosexual men were significantly (p < 0.001) more likely than heterosexual men to have gonorrhea (30.31% vs. 19.83%), early syphilis (1.08% vs. 0.34%) and anal warts (2.90% vs. 0.26%) but less likely to have nongonococcal urethritis (NGU) (14.63% vs. 36.40%, p < 0.001), herpes genitalis (0.93% vs. 3.65%, p < 0.001), pediculosis pubis (4.30% vs. 5.35%, p < 0.005), scabies (0.42% vs. 0.76%, p < 0.02), and genital warts (1.68% vs. 6.69%, p < 0.001). In most cases the differences in rates remained significant (p < 0.05) when corrected for age and race. I

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In other words, heterosexual men aren't in the end any less filthy or degenerate or disease ridden than their homosexual counterparts.

a reply to: randyvs

Additionally, here are some other things from Leviticus God has hefty punishments for:

Eating fat or blood. (3:17)
Eating animals that don't both chew cud and have a divided hoof. (11:4-7)
Eating or touching the carcass of any seafood without fins or scales. (11:13-19)
Mixing fabrics in clothing. (19:19)
Trimming your beard or cutting your hair at the sides. (19:27)
Not standing in the presence of the elderly. (19:32)
Working on the Sabbath. (23:3)

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: windword


Leviticus 20:13

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

There you go again, defining your God as you imagine it to be. Those are, indisputably, men's words, but from what I can gather from your post, you're trying to tell me that those are "God's" words.

I wonder, does your God also hate lobster? Rayon, cotton blends? I hope your prayer shawl is properly tasseled.