Cruel Division UK - CAUTION! FIRE IMAGES!

We've got a big story kicking off here. Naturally the mainstream media are using it to set different factions arguing.

Here are two examples that illustrate the point.

First we have the version that will bring or maintain closure for the majority of survivors.

I was horrified when I heard it because there was absolutely no question of arson.

www.express.co.uk...
Notice the images shown in this article are in keeping with the survivors requests not to see images of the fire raging. They are literally cracking up right now as a result of the plethora of fire images in the media. This story is designed to please those who want to move on.


Now we come to the second story.

You’ve no doubt heard of his assertion that the 1985 Valley Parade fire may be far from the accident it was made out to be

CAUTION! FIRE IMAGES! www.mirror.co.uk...
This article contains images that traumatise survivors. This version is for those who see the use made of the Bradford Fire in the planned and very profitable sanitisation of football. A desperate cover-up is becoming apparent. To aid the cover-up survivors are deliberately being traumatised by fire images in association with calls for a professional investigation. The emotions of survivors are seen as a tool by the spooks who make up the news.

I hope I've made myself clear. Images of the fire raging are being used to herd survivors towards quick fix closure.

This country is a mess. Many of those who could have prevented this mess were too busy watching football on television. Hillsborough and the Bradford Fire are what made televised football in its present form possible. Hillsborough was a complex and much practised black op. Bradford seems to have been more a case of taking advantage of a remorseless psychotic extreme problem solving serial arsonist nonce. Not mentioning any names.

Both these events were state murder of the people.

Neither Hillsborough nor the Bradford City fire were the result of any "conspiracy" and were certainly not "state murder" of anyone.

Hillsborough - errors made by Police Commanders led to the crush which killed all those people. There was no plot, collusion or scheme to have them "killed" so we could all have nice, all-seater stadiums (which are now being looked at again as there are moves to go back to a form of terracing). In fact, terracing hasn't even been banned and is still in use in many Stadiums in the Football League.

Bradford City - An ancient, wooden stand is allowed to accumulate rubbish underneath it for decades. A discarded fag set the whole thing alight. There was no arson and only one crackpot claims otherwise. You'd think if it was some Government plot, they'd ban smoking in Stadiums but that didn't happen for many years afterwards - in fact, it is still legal to smoke in Stadiums to this day, providing they have no roof. It is the Football League which has imposed the ban, not the Government.

There does seem to be a theme with your threads - like this one - where you claim things are what they are not.

EDIT; Corrected Derby County with Bradford City - I knew it was wrong when I typed it, but couldn't put my finger on it till others mentioned it.

originally posted by: Kester
This country is a mess. Many of those who could have prevented this mess were too busy watching football on television. Hillsborough and the Bradford Fire are what made televised football in its present form possible. Hillsborough was a complex and much practised black op. Bradford seems to have been more a case of taking advantage of a remorseless psychotic extreme problem solving serial arsonist nonce. Not mentioning any names.

Both Hillsborough and the Bradford stadium fire were tragedies which led to huge improvements in the way stadia were designed and managed, and other safety aspects. I don't think that there is a conspiracy to engineer tragedies leading to (down the line) vast TV deals. The fact is that is that in their time (the 1980's) both tragedies were waiting to happen. Sadly, it often takes a tragedy to mobilise the effort to sort out problems.

The Bradford Stadium fire is (for example) used as a case study on how NOT to deal with a fire. There were so many lessons learned that were rolled into improvements that something like it would probably never happen again - in the UK at least.

While Hillsborough was a conspiracy to cover-up the police ineptitude, both were tragedies and continuously resurrecting them in the public eye without due reverence to those who suffered (and still suffer) is just inconsiderate.

a reply to: stumason

People can find bloody conspiracies in everything.

Imagine there being a 'powerful' person able to think that burning 60 people to death and crushing 96 others would lead to the Premiership!

Tedious effing link IMO

I know from previous thread that this member strongly subscribes to the idea of complex socially engineered events to effect societal shift and fractionalisation of the demographics. I am grateful to this member for making me aware of the club chairman at the time of the fire. There could very well be a real conspiracy involving that individual for financial reasons, and I agree with Kester that this persons motives and actions are worthy of further investigation.

Lessons have been learnt from these tragic events

Leeds v Sunderland ... 20th March 1967 ... record crowd of 56,000

I was there and at the front wall behind the goal posts ... Many were passing out with the sheer pressure of the crowd ... the crowd lifted and carried those who had passed out forward onto the pitch to receive first aid ...eventually the wall collapsed and people went streaming on to the pitch ... fortunately there were deaths but that could have easily happened

Back then the turnstile gates were opened at half time ... it was known fact that you could watch the second half for free back then also there was no limit set for the numbers allowed in as such a tragedy was not envisioned

dp

a reply to: stumason

We'll see this summer how things go regarding opportunistic riots. The opportunity being police cutbacks. Support the constables is the way to fight that one.

The Hillsborough media coverage is being cherry-picked as anyone can prove for themselves by studying the inquest evidence. The evidence indicates an organised rush on the turnstiles which caused the disaster. Helped by an opened gate, which had been modified two years before so it would burst open under crowd pressure. That gate was going to open one way or another. The video matches the accounts. The biggest giveaway with Hillsborough is the immediate condemnation of standing when rushing in was the problem. I don't have enough details on the failure to close the tunnel, I'm sure someone here has verifiable facts on the failure to close the tunnel. It wasn't about nice stadiums, it was about getting rrses on seats in pubs watching posh telly football instead of fighting back against the wholesale destruction of our culture. Also Hillsborough was designed to inculcate the general public with the 'the police' did it message. Sorry about the disjointed grammar, I'm surrounded by noise and I don't have much time.

Bradford. Hundreds of cigarette ends were found in one small area examined. How many dropped over the years? How do we know a cigarette dropped out of sight and a wisp of smoke appearing later are positively linked? Don't you find it odd the story is both 'most likely a lit match or possibly pipe tobacco or cigarette' and 'positively a cigarette dropped by a man visiting from Australia'. Both stories at the same time? Doesn't that make you want to, well, deny ignorance?

a reply to: Forensick

Not everything, but many highly publicised events used to emotionally manipulate mainstream media consumers. Particularly if you're related to a False Flag Terrorist as I am. And you see the A.S.I.O. denial of the involvement I know they had.

originally posted by: hotel1
.....complex socially engineered events to effect societal shift and fractionalisation of the demographics.

I live every day with the profound after effects of one of these socially engineered events. That's what drives me. I'm the unintended blowback from False Flag Terror.

originally posted by: Kester

originally posted by: hotel1
.....complex socially engineered events to effect societal shift and fractionalisation of the demographics.

I live every day with the profound after effects of one of these socially engineered events. That's what drives me. I'm the unintended blowback from False Flag Terror.

I would very much like to hear about that if you are comfortable talking about it.

It is known that Landlords for example will pay someone to burn down their property in order to get the Insurance which usually exceeds the value the property ... Ie the property is run down as the cost of bringing it up to standard is high

Also allowing property to run down in order to to sell the land off to developers does happen

Not saying this is what occurred at Bradford Park Avenue stadium just that this sort thing does occur ... Officials can be bought off

a reply to: Kester

Hillsborough - the "Rush on the turnstiles" was a tried and tested tactic by ticket less fans and had been going on for years. Why you're singling out this one match as evidence of a plot is a bit odd.

The gate had been modified so as to prevent people from being crushed in such a rush or other crowd situation.

The "immediate condemnation" was towards the fans behaviour, not the act of standing - as has been shown, standing still exists in Football League games even today.

As for the failure to close the tunnel - the Police Commander has admitted culpability here and said he just froze and didn't know what to do. Human error, simples.

You seem to grasping at straws here.

As for Bradford... I've lost count the amount of times I've dropped a fag end on the carpet, or my clothes, and not burst into flames.

But one day, if I am not careful and the conditions are just right, I may well end up going up like a Guy on Fireworks night.

That's what happened at Bradford. Usually, people will stub a fag out when they are finished, but maybe this time they didn't, or perhaps tossed a lit match down there.

You must have played with fire as a boy (assuming you are) so you'd know that a box of matches is no guarantee of a fire. Even if you got one started, keeping it alive takes effort, so simply stating "it never happened before so I don't believe it did happen" is just a bit daft, really. It might not have happened before because it never took hold, or burnt it self out, or simply didn't have any combustible fuel. It only takes one time though.

Either way, it certainly makes more sense than your crackpot theory about it being some plot to force people to watch TV in the Pub/home many years before any appreciable amount of Football was ever shown on TV!

originally posted by: artistpoet
It is known that Landlords for example will pay someone to burn down their property in order to get the Insurance which usually exceeds the value the property ... Ie the property is run down as the cost of bringing it up to standard is high

Also allowing property to run down in order to to sell the land off to developers does happen

Not saying this is what occurred at Bradford Park Avenue stadium just that this sort thing does occur ... Officials can be bought off

Indeed - in fact, a listed building was burnt down in Wokingham a few years back. Speculation was abound that it was because they had been refused planning permission to change the building, so tried to burn it down so as to avoid the Councils stipulations on the planned conversion.

As it happens, it failed - the Fire Brigade were there quickly and saved the building.

They did later discover it was arson, but couldn't prove who had done it, but the landlord did have to stick to the revised planning permission he was given that he had tried to avoid.

More often than not, it will be discovered as an act of arson - those forensics people know what they are doing.

a reply to: stumason

The forensics at the time of the Bradford City fire obviously were not as advanced as they are now which may be worth considering. There is also of course the chance that palms were greased and backs were scratched etc etc.

a reply to: stumason

There was a massive cover up on Hillsborough and the Thatcher Government of the day did their utmost to blame Liverpool fans for this disaster, along with Murdoch and his minions at 'The Sun'. They made up false stories of fans urinating on the dead and rummaging through the pockets, stealing personal belongings of the dead. Thatcher hated football fans and it was her intention to ensure the Police did not take the blame, despite the fact that they had evidence to suggest it was their fault.

Bradford it appears was a tragic incident started by a discarded cigarette. Now claims of the fire being purposely started have come to light and I guess it will be down to the authorities to investigate and come to their own conclusions. However, I am sure that the initial investigation would have done this anyway, but now new allegations have come to light, a new investigation may be warranted, even if the allegations came from what has been termed 'A crackpot'.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Oh yeah, I know there was a cover up - that much has been made plain to see from the inquiry. It has all come out in the wash, finally. That said, the fans rushing the gate was a causative factor, Police mistakes aside.

Bradford - only one person has ever tried to make out like it was intentional, all other investigations have turned up no evidence of any wrong doing, aside from complacency over the risk the stand posed. I am certain that if any evidence of wrong doing had been found, it would have been acted upon as it would have been the most horrific mass murder in the UK since the War.

a reply to: stumason

While I agree with most of your points about the thread and the motives for this ongoing conspiracy narrative, there is some evidence that the man responsible for the venue had experienced numerous fires at other businesses he was associated with, and received massive financial payouts as a result of them.

There is undoubtedly massive suspicion, and there should be.

While the OP is attempting to manufacture a bigger conspiracy than there is any reason to believe (and based on nothing more than personal belief) there is absolutely enough reason to suspect foul play in this tragedy - not from the government, but from the business men involved in the running of that club.

a reply to: Rocker2013

That I had not heard and if true, yes it should be investigated. However, an old, creaky wooden stand filled with rubbish being set alight by a discarded fag end or match seems the most likely result. I just don't believe, no matter how crooked a businessman might be, he'd put thousands at risk to claim a few bob. Why not just set fire to it when it was empty?

a reply to: hotel1

Very difficult to talk about clearly. It's easier to generalise.

Generally speaking the families of those involved end up causing more trouble than the operation was ever worth.

The most positive thing I can say is the planners and perpetrators of False Flag Terror are driven mad by the overall failure of the operation and the extraordinary coincidences that follow. I've seen it happen, and, due to one of these extraordinary coincidences, I've also met other family members. I have to remind myself it is a tragedy when the guilty parties lose their minds. I keep laughing, but it is a tragedy.

It isn't a great time for me to talk but you could get more out of me with a little prompting.