Can anyone name a religion that DOESNT believe in reincarnation?

a reply to: WarminIndy
Will do on the passages going forward. Also, no need to quote my whole post especially if your response follows mine fairly soon.

John 3:3
Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

I wasn't quoting "the born from above" passage in terms of reincarnation, because Jesus was referring to a spiritual rebirth, not a physical one there. Why I am mentioning it is, firstly, that is supports esotericism - especially the "from above" part - that is clearly about the spirit's ascension, which Jesus initiated his disciples into.

But also this quote indicates the freedom of the spirit to move beyond the flesh, and that does also support the potential for transmigration of the soul - i.e., reincarnation.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Egyptian religion also taught that your heart was weighed against a feather.

So? Nothing wrong with that. It's a beautiful concept.

But, in Egypt it's a little more complicated. Pharaoh bodies were prepared as mummies for resurrection.....in the afterlife. The mummy was merely a companion. Resurrection is demonstrated through Osiris, who is reborn in Horus.

The Scarab Beetle was considered holy as it represented the sun, and rebirth (resurrection) through the most mundane of mediums, dung being pushed by a bug.

The scarab and the mummy
Understanding the daily rebirth of the sun has always been of interest to the Egyptians. What happens to the sun between the moment it sinks into the earth in the western horizon, (where it dies and is buried) and the moment it emerges in the eastern horizon, where it born again.......

At the end of the day, the sun enters into the ground as does the scarab and his ball (let us observe here again that the sun alone can be represented by the scarab and/or his ball; a vision rather hard for contemporary cultures to believe). The sun travels underground from west to east, undergoing a mysterious metamorphoses, or khepru, resulting in regeneration. The next morning, the sun rises from the ground rejuvenated, as the scarab god Khepri.
www.insects.org...

It's a fine line between resurrection and reincarnation in the solar cults.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Unless there is evidence for belief in people receiving a second physical body, there is no evidence for belief in reincarnation.

I concur.

Yet, early Gnostic text does speak much about descent of the Monad. The gnostic insight resonates with me, therefore, I accept it into my belief system without physical evidence as a possibility. However, I would not label it a fact since I have no physical evidence I can provide to confirm it...to myself.

Btw, can you provide evidence of Jesus actually existing without resorting to referencing scripture - words? Unless there is physical evidence for this belief of an actual Christ walking the Earth at some point in the past; there is no reason for that belief in a physical Christos. Where is the tangible evidence? Words written on parchment?

I still agree with your point tho. Each are allowed to believe what they choose to believe. After all, beliefs can only exist without physical evidence.

With physical evidence beliefs give way to KNOWING.

Looks like we are all in the same boat here. Where's Noah?

Wow it's crazy how Disraeli gives the actual answer so many times and people still want to be ignorant.

No reincarnation in Christianity.

originally posted by: Involutionist
I concur.

Yet, early Gnostic text does speak much about descent of the Monad. The gnostic insight resonates with me, therefore, I accept it into my belief system without physical evidence as a possibility. However, I would not label it a fact since I have no physical evidence I can provide to confirm it...to myself.

Then that would indicate gnosticism, not Christianity teaches reincarnation.

a reply to: windword

I should have been clearer, i didn't say Asatru so i would avoid Germanic neo-pagan stuff. I was referring to medieval beliefs but it does seem some of the neos call themselves Odinists too... they probs shouldn't be allowed to if they are prepared to die without a sword in hand "etc etc" but they keep ignoring my letters

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: DISRAELI

Unless there is evidence for belief in people receiving a second physical body, there is no evidence for belief in reincarnation.

I concur.

Yet, early Gnostic text does speak much about descent of the Monad. The gnostic insight resonates with me, therefore, I accept it into my belief system without physical evidence as a possibility. However, I would not label it a fact since I have no physical evidence I can provide to confirm it...to myself.

Btw, can you provide evidence of Jesus actually existing without resorting to referencing scripture - words? Unless there is physical evidence for this belief of an actual Christ walking the Earth at some point in the past; there is no reason for that belief in a physical Christos. Where is the tangible evidence? Words written on parchment?

I still agree with your point tho. Each are allowed to believe what they choose to believe. After all, beliefs can only exist without physical evidence.

With physical evidence beliefs give way to KNOWING.

Looks like we are all in the same boat here. Where's Noah?

Does this guy want a statue or something to show evidence that Jesus lived in Israel?

Perhaps an early original Chagall painting? The body preserved in a glass coffin?

What do you want as evidence? The writings on paper have been around 2,000 years. The Romans, Greeks and Jews wrote about Him. At this point, there's more evidence historically for Jesus than Socrates.

a reply to: Involutionist

Btw, can you provide evidence of Jesus actually existing without resorting to referencing scripture - words? Unless there is physical evidence for this belief of an actual Christ walking the Earth at some point in the past; there is no reason for that belief in a physical Christos. Where is the tangible evidence? Words written on parchment?

Yes evidence is given and has been repeatedly given in posts by warminlindy.

Soncino b Talmud 46a
Cf. Rabbinowicz, Legislation criminelle du Talmud, p. 111: What a difference between this hanging after death, where the executed man had both his hands tied and did not remain one minute upon the gallows, and the Supplicium, which the Romans inflicted upon Jesus who was nailed to the cross whilst alive, with his hands on the cross, and left hanging on the gallows all day.

Soncino b Talmud 67a
(12) In the uncensored editions of the Talmud there follows this important passage (supplied from D.S. on the authority of the Munich and Oxford Mss. and the older editions) ‘And this they did to Ben Stada in Lydda (suk), and they hung him on the eve of Passover. Ben Stada was Ben Padira. R. Hisda said: ‘The husband was Stada, the paramour Pandira. But was nor the husband Pappos b. Judah? — His mother's name was Stada. But his mother was Miriam, a dresser of woman's hair? (thab tksdn megaddela neshayia): — As they say in Pumbaditha, This woman has turned away (satath da) from her husband, (i.e., committed adultery).’ T. Herford, in ‘Christianity in the Talmud’, pp. 37 seqq, 344 seqq, identifies this Ben Stada with Jesus of Nazareth. As to the meaning of the name, he connects it with ** ‘seditious’, and suggests (p. 345 n.1) that it originally denoted ‘that Egyptian’ (Acts XXI 38, Josephus, Ant. XX, 8, 6) who claimed to be a prophet and led his followers to the Mount of Olives, where he was routed by the Procurator Felix, and that in later times he might have been confused with Jeshua ha-Notzri. This hypothesis, however, involves the disregard of the Talmudic data, for Pappos b. Judah lived a century after Jesus (Cit. 90a), though the mother's name, Miriam (Mary), would raise no difficulty, as thab tksdn megaddla neshayia may be the result of a confusion with Mary Magdalene (v. also Box, The Virgin Birth of Jesus, pp. 201f, for other possible meanings of Ben Stada and Ben Pandira) Derenbourg (Essai note 9, pp. 465-471) rightly denies the identity of Ben Stada with Jesus, and regards him simply as a false prophet executed during the second century at Lydda.

What do you mean by physical evidence? Isn't ancient literature evidence? You may have evidence confused with proof and if you do then you are not in the realm of Theology. Physical evidence is actually in the shroud of Turin but is not proven as fact and probably never will be. The Christian realizes that he or she must accept the Christ with faith and not proof. If we could produce terrestrial proof of Christ Jesus that would still not produce substance change and prove celestial proof of Christ Jesus.

a reply to: windword

Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe that after the end of time, we'll live in heaven in perfect, incorruptible bodies. But, until then, there's room for reincarnation in all those schools of thought.

Not necessarily so. The rabbinic philosophy differed from Jesus' doctrine in that Jesus taught the dead soul returned to the terrestrial elements forever while the rabbinic philosophy taught that the dead body would reunite with the contained spirit in a last day judgment on this earth. Now here is the great difference. Rabbinic Judaism believes that after the resurrection of the terrestrial body there has to eventually be another death of that terrestrial resurrected body and that the justified spirit will live in the bundle of life as a disembodied spirit. The plateau of bliss will vary with how you are judged. Within this philosophy is the belief that the disembodied spirit can have another try at elevation to a higher plateau with a reincarnated body. That would be the choice of the spirit. This reincarnation philosophy was not of the doctrine of Jesus.

Jesus taught that this is not true. After the kingdom of heaven was offered by His death, God had built a celestial city called New Jerusalem. (Isaiah also discusses the New Jerusalem in the 65th & 66th chapters) That is offered as the kingdom of heaven. As a soul dies and the body returns to the earth forever, the spirit of that soul is immediately judged and the justified spirit is then allowed into the New Jerusalem. That is called resurrection or rebirth. This spirit is then given a celestial covering which is called a celestial body. That body carries the very same identification (image) as the terrestrial body had. I call this a substance change of the body only. The spirit remains the same as was on earth.

The New Jerusalem (kingdom of heaven) has the tree of life and the water of life to give the celestial body life forever in the kingdom of heaven. The entire mystery centers around the spirit. A disembodied spirit which is contained in Sheol does not require the food and water of life and remains as a disembodied spirit while in Sheol. Once it is resurrected into a new celestial body then it must have the tree and water of life to sustain the new body. Jesus taught an entirely different existence than did rabbinic philosophy

Now so far we have only shown how the dead are resurrected today. Jesus teaches that at the end of this world when it is totally consumed by fire and destroyed by a fervent heat, that everyone who is alive at that time will suddenly be dead and stand before God in a white throne judgment. This only applies to the ones who are living at the time of the end. The Apostle John calls this the second resurrection. This second resurrection has no effect upon those of the first resurrection or those who have already been judged.

So by showing you a little of the two doctrines you can understand that Christianity does not subscribe to rabbinic philosophy and their reincarnation.

a reply to: Seede

This reincarnation philosophy was not of the doctrine of Jesus.

Baloney! Besides the fact that the Roman Catholic Church took Jewish philosophies and applied them to Jesus and that they continually tweaked the words of Jesus to fit a desirable mindset, first and foremost, Jesus taught spiritual freedom.

He didn't teach that his followers will lie asleep in their graves until the end of time, he taught about everlasting life and never tasting death.

I find it hard to believe that true seekers of truth would seek to rest for 1000s of years when the "Great Work" is still incomplete! Nope, the real saints aren't sitting in paradise sipping on Pina Coladas, their fighting, right here in the trenches, until the end of time!

a reply to: WarminIndy

What do you want as evidence? The writings on paper have been around 2,000 years. The Romans, Greeks and Jews wrote about Him. At this point, there's more evidence historically for Jesus than Socrates.

Nothing. I don't need any evidence, nor was I asking.

See? What I did was flip Disraeli's very own words in my comment. Go back and read his/her post I responded to and then read my response with keen eyes.

In other words: Thank you for confirming the hypocrisy in Disraeli's thought process. I used the EXACT same talking point as they did...with a slightly different sentence structure.

The Romans, Greeks and Jews wrote about Him. At this point, there's more evidence historically for Jesus than Socrates.

I believe in Jesus, just not your version...

“The Vision of Christ That Thou Dost See”: William Blake on the Many Faces of Jesus

William Blake’s “The Everlasting Gospel”:

The Vision of Christ that thou dost see

Is my Vision’s Greatest Enemy.

Thine has a great hook nose like thine;

Mine has a snub nose like to mine.

Thine is the friend of All Mankind;

Mine speaks in parables to the Blind.

Thine loves the same world that mine hates;

Thy Heaven doors are my Hell Gates.

Socrates taught what Melitus

Loathd as a Nation’s bitterest Curse;

And Caiphas was in his own Mind

A benefactor to Mankind.

Both read the Bible day & night,

But thou readst black where I read white.

"But thou readst black where I read white."

...no problem.

originally posted by: windword
... first and foremost, Jesus taught spiritual freedom.

Exactly. He taught that everyone should have such spiritual freedom each and every day - that is the result of truly understanding and living according to his two great commandments.

What do people think he meant when he gave his two great commandments? They are a complete demand to live happily and freely in communion with God in each and every moment - with the whole body-mind and spirit.

Mark 12:28-31 New International Version (NIV)
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.(a) 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’(b) 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’(c) There is no commandment greater than these.”

This is not only a great exoteric message, but also helped prepare his most devoted followers' body-minds for his esoteric initiation, which would grant them in-life spiritual freedom through being born again from Above.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seede

This reincarnation philosophy was not of the doctrine of Jesus.

Baloney! Besides the fact that the Roman Catholic Church took Jewish philosophies and applied them to Jesus and that they continually tweaked the words of Jesus to fit a desirable mindset, first and foremost, Jesus taught spiritual freedom.

He didn't teach that his followers will lie asleep in their graves until the end of time, he taught about everlasting life and never tasting death.

I find it hard to believe that true seekers of truth would seek to rest for 1000s of years when the "Great Work" is still incomplete! Nope, the real saints aren't sitting in paradise sipping on Pina Coladas, their fighting, right here in the trenches, until the end of time!

Actually yes, He did teach that.

Resurrection...

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Jesus knew this verse and Jesus quoted from Isaiah, meaning that Jesus upheld the words of Isaiah.

Ye that dwell in the dust, that means the dead body, the physical body, will one day resurrect.

And this is Peter speaking..

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

David prophesied the resurrection, Jesus resurrected, Peter then proclaimed it.

And that wasn't even Paul talking about it. They believed and understood that the physical body would one day live again.

In fact, that was exactly what Ezekiel was talking about in his vision of the valley of dry bones.

Sinew to sinew....they came back to life and stood up.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Then that would indicate gnosticism, not Christianity teaches reincarnation.

Gnosticism is attaining knowledge of transcendence arrived at by way of interior intuitive means.... instead of through the lips of priest. Gnostic insight is untainted Christian insight before the church began to distort the teachings for their own selfish reasons.

Here is a very tiny glimpse of Gnostic insight hidden from the uninitiated.

The Secret Teachings of St.Luke who was a Greek physician by trade...

The always seeing eye was called in the Latin the *president* (first sight). The two sometimes seeing eyes were called in the Latin the two *counselors* (second sight). These three formed the presidency of sight. *Their symbol was the triangle.* The physical body or temple of sight was protected by guardian angels: the five senses. If something looked, tasted, smelled, sounded, or felt bad, these senses would not let it be offered as an offering to the altar (stomach) of the temple.

However...

The guardians of the temple could be overridden by the twelve (12) witnesses, the twelve (12) lights, the twelve (12) messengers; in Latin named the twelve (12) apostles.

In medical science today,they are called the twelve (12) cranial nerves.

The twelve (12) cranial work in unity to give account or witness as to the condition of each of the organs or offices of the temple to the always seeing eye.

The twelve (12) are supported by the seven (7) doors of the head of the church, ( a Greek term for Lord's house or temple).

The seven (7) doors were also called *presidents*. Hence, the seven (7) presidents were head of the seventy (70)-- the seven (7) holes, or doors, of the head. Two ears, two eyes, two nostrils, and one mouth. And who were the seventy (70)? The 70 joints of the human body.

Thirty-three of them in the spinal column. And the twenty-four (24) elders? The ribs.

The ancient Egyptians had names for each and every one of these, as did the Hebrews and early Christians under Paul's direction.

Religious organizations, esoteric brotherhoods, and all rites, rituals, and ordinances in the beginning reflected the human body: the temple of god. The trumpet of God was the voice. And what lit the house? The light of understanding. Your memory: Light shining on pure waters brought all things to your remembrance. Remembrance brought with it knowledge. Knowledge was the key to immortality of the flesh, or temple, the church or kingdom of God. Knowledge comes to us in the names of people and things. The names of all these work together to bring the sight of understanding which causes sound to utter from our throats. (Magnus Opus, by Don Tolman.)

Twelve (12) Cranial Nerves (Atlas of Human Anatomy):
1 Olfactory (smell)
2 Optic (vision)
3 Oculomotor (eye movements)
4 Trochlear (eye movements)
5 Trigeminal (mastication)
6 Abducens (eye muscle movement)
7 Facial (taste, muscle sense)
8 Acoustic (hearing, sense of balance)
9 Glossopharyngeal (swallowing, taste, cutaneous sensations of the ear)
10 Vagus (hunger, pain, respiratory reflexes, swallowing, actions of internal organs)
11 Spinal accessory (movements of the neck, shoulder, and soft palate)
12 Hypoglossal (muscular movements of the tongue)

Principal Joints:

33 The spinal column, consisting of 33 vertebrae: cervical 7, thoacic 12, lumbar 5, sacral 5,
coccygeal 4.
34 Sternoclavicular
35 Acromioclavicular
36 Shoulder
37 Elbow
38 Radioulnar, proximal
39 Radioulnar, middle
40 Radioulnar, distal

41 Wrist
42 Intercarpal
43 CarpoMetaphysicalcarpal
44 InterMetaphysicalcarpal
45 Metaphysicalcarpophalangeal
46 Interphalangeal
47 Hip
48 Knee
49 Tibiofibular
50 Tibiofibular syndesmosis
51 Ankle
52 Subtalar
53 Talocalcaneonavicular
54 Calcaneocuboid
55 TarsoMetaphysicaltarsal
56 InterMetaphysicaltarsal
57 Metaphysicaltarsophalangeal
58 Interphalangeal
59 Vertebral bodies
60 Vertebral arches
61 Atlas
62 Vertebral column with cranium
63 Mandible (Jaw)
64 Ribs, heads of
65 Ribs, tubercles and necks of
66 Sternocostal
67 Sacroilioc
68 Sacrum and ischium
69 Sacrococcygeal
70 Public

www.lojsociety.org...

Baby steps...

a reply to: WarminIndy

Alright, you go ahead and cling to your flesh and blood. Wait for your molecules to reassemble themselves and remember "you" in several thousand years from now, give or take.

Me, I'll take everlasting life, and go in and out of the door, as often as need be.

a reply to: Seede

What do you mean by physical evidence? Isn't ancient literature evidence?

Of course it is. It is just too bad most haven't studied gematria and such to interpret that ancient literature correctly. This leads to mistaking allegory as historical fact.

Please see my above post. Click that link if you want to start referencing ancient text. Why make up rules that fit our paradigm? Let's get to the root meaning of it all.

If you want to start using scripture, I would click that link to understand the world I come from...

Words today had different connotations back then.

The husband was Stada, the paramour Pandira. But was nor the husband Pappos b. Judah?

My interpretation of Judah from my gnostic transcendental perspective (btw, you can discover these truths by becoming STILL...) is this:

Judas is derived from the same form as the word Judah. It means the hand. It is the first symbol in the name of God, or the Hebrew symbol "Yod,” the hand of worship, the hand of the Creator. Judas symbolized the disciplined aspect of detachment.

My previous comment points to Solomon's Temple (Human Body). The 12th disciple (physical aspect) corresponds with "YOD" and 12 Hypoglossal (muscular movements of the tongue).

"...but Judas told them, "when I kiss him you will know him.”

It would be impossible to spell it all out, but with an open mind and heart you may awaken to something deeper if you entertain the signpost I provided. *Be warned: Don't climb that sign post - follow it. Those who climb it (take things literally) usually end up with nothing to show for it in their immediate lives.

a reply to: Involutionist


And what have you been enlightened with?

You post a lot of other gnostic ideas, but isn't gnosticism really individualistic?

I mean you should be able to find some enlightening thought on your own without the mediation of other people who might have not been really enlightened at all.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Alright, you go ahead and cling to your flesh and blood. Wait for your molecules to reassemble themselves and remember "you" in several thousand years from now, give or take.

Me, I'll take everlasting life, and go in and out of the door, as often as need be.

Oh, but I am offered everlasting life.

And is the soul made of atoms and molecules? What is that? Energy?

Aren't you the one who said that you chose your parents before you were born? Maybe I am mistaken about that, but I seem to recall that you were the one who said it.

How do you transmigrate your soul to another body? What is the mechanism for that?

a reply to: WarminIndy

How do you transmigrate your soul to another body? What is the mechanism for that?

To use your own Bible.....

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

New clothes!

It's silly to argue over what kind of "new clothes" we'll get. The only thing that matters is the goal, eternal life, free will and spiritual freedom.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I mean you should be able to find some enlightening thought on your own without the mediation of other people who might have not been really enlightened at all.

Ditto.

I notice you cannot debunk the teachings of Saint Luke....

My understanding and application leaves me still young (28) with much free time on my hands. Those untainted gnostic/kabbalic/Sufi teachings of Christ is magical.

So you don't believe Paul and St.Luke were enlightened at all?

After all, that is where I'm sourcing it from.

I guess ancient writings are not proof now...?

You guys seem to be experts at pushing back the goal post.

The good news is my beliefs leave me living a very good life. That is all that matters.

I wish you very good life as well.