Losing my Religion

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Interestingly enough, the kindest, most giving people I've known over the past 50 years, were individuals who did not subscribe to any religion. And conversely, the most annoying life contacts have been relatives on my wife's side of the family. They won't let me put the car into gear without saying a prayer for a safe trip. Thankfully, as the years pass, these relatives are getting older, sicker and less outwardly judgmental of others who wear jewelry, listen to "worldly" music, etc..

a reply to: carewemust

Thanks for posting this.
I hope everyone else appreciates it as much as I do.

a reply to: carewemust

After all, if you don't believe in the hereafter, then why bother sacrificing anything for anyone, or having any morals?

Maybe because morals and ethics are how we survive and thrive as a group? What does believing in a "hereafter" have to do with morals? Surely you don't need a god to exist and threaten you to behave, to know that etiquette is a necessity for the survival of any group.

Why sacrifice? Uhm...love, compassion, empathy, respect, conscience toward your fellow humans? You know. Crazy things like that.

a reply to: misskat1

What has helped you get through this process?

My foundation was in Christianity as well, but I have always been fascinated with other cultural tales, legends and mythologies throughout the Ages. Through extensive reading and cross-comparison, I saw many parallels and themes that repeated themselves throughout these stories and mythos.

Joespeh Campbell : The Hero With a Thousand faces and Myths to Live By helped guide me through most of my journey, but so did all the beautiful stories from every possible source imaginable.

It's been an interesting Path so far, though I am still On the Road.

I also study the Science behind all of our Origins, so it's not strictly a written or oral tradition that guides me.

The more I learn, the more in awe I am of this wonderful universe and the beauty of human beings.

There is no doubt in my mind that a Great Work is unfolding every moment of every hour of every day in every way.

There is also the converse to this expansion, but I prefer to stay away from that particular black hole.

Safe travels and Blessed Journey unto You and Yours.
May your Path Illuminate itself.
God speed.

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Bad means good these days, Wicked means good, White Witches are accepted....even though they are still witches and deny GOD, Gay people (and I don't judge, I have gay friends and I treat them normally), they are now accepted and straights are ridiculed.

No.

"Straights" are not ridiculed. Not in the least. (Religious fanatics, however, are, and for good reason.)

And "White Witches" (I am one) do not deny "GOD". We simply see the 'unseen' differently - but, whatever....this is not the thread in which to make that point.

"Gays" are people. "They" feel everything, just like you do: pain, rejection, ostracization, fear, hope, perseverance, dignity.......

Who are you to judge?

I am not judging. I have gay friends actually. God judges. If you want references that straights are being ostracized, and gays ascended ...ask me, and I will deliver proof, in droves. Just ask.

You do realize that if you consider Homosexual people as lesser than you for whatever reason, then that is in fact a judgement that you place on them.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: carewemust

After all, if you don't believe in the hereafter, then why bother sacrificing anything for anyone, or having any morals?

Maybe because morals and ethics are how we survive and thrive as a group? What does believing in a "hereafter" have to do with morals? Surely you don't need a god to exist and threaten you to behave, to know that group etiquette is a necessity for the survival of any group.

Why sacrifice? Uhm...love, compassion, empathy, respect, conscience toward your fellow humans? You know. Crazy things like that.

We see daily the terrible things that people without positive morals do to others...often just for their personal entertainment. The belief of eternal punishment, or eternal reward, shapes the morals of people raised in religious homes to a large degree. These beliefs help many people keep their emotions and actions in check.

a reply to: LiberLegit

Thank goodness religion exists, because if it didn't we'd have a world of faux-intellectual whiners like yourselves looking down on everyone else.

LL, it doesn't matter how someone looks at me.
What matters is the smile they will see. And it's
been there everyday of my life since I was ten.
The day I found a reason to smile everyday.

But you sure ripped em a new one with your post.

a reply to: carewemust
History says otherwise. Those positive morals have been used to justify the murder of millions of people.

Speaking for myself. I don't need god to tell me, if you're drowning and I can help, I should. What you or I believe shouldn't be a concern in making that decision. Those who need a system of reward and punishment to do the right things, need a class in how people work and survive together as a species, and as a civilization. The worlds governments and religions are not good role models for that class. imho.

a reply to: misskat1

Mithra? Do you have any proof of Mithras existence?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: carewemust

After all, if you don't believe in the hereafter, then why bother sacrificing anything for anyone, or having any morals?

Maybe because morals and ethics are how we survive and thrive as a group? What does believing in a "hereafter" have to do with morals? Surely you don't need a god to exist and threaten you to behave, to know that group etiquette is a necessity for the survival of any group.

Why sacrifice? Uhm...love, compassion, empathy, respect, conscience toward your fellow humans? You know. Crazy things like that.

We see daily the terrible things that people without positive morals do to others...often just for their personal entertainment. The belief of eternal punishment, or eternal reward, shapes the morals of people raised in religious homes to a large degree. These beliefs help many people keep their emotions and actions in check.

And yet only 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population consider themselves Atheists. Religion has this fantastic mask over it where it comes off as a way to learn to be moral, and what morality really is. Yet there are many instances in the bible where Rape is accepted, so long as you pay the father of the rape victim a small fee. Beating your slave is accepted, how else would you keep your slave in line? Virtually every small thing is punishable by death. So on and so forth.

Heck, even the 10 commandments show almost nothing that relates to morality. And those are supposed to be the very basics behind morality!

1-4 are only about pleasing god

Sure, don't murder, honor your parents, dont steal, and so on are fairly good. But what about torture? You don't need to kill someone to torture them, in fact the most effective form of torture is to continue it endlessly. That's not mentioned there. There isn't any mention of rape; then again, it's already an acceptable action apparently. Don't molest children? Clearly that's not in there. Do not keep slaves? We all know how damaging that is, but virtually every aspect of the bible says slaves are A-O.K!

Funny, I've never been religious in my life. I've never believed in any higher power. Yet, somehow I recognize these are immoral things? How can that possibly be when I am not a christian?

The thing is, if you are just obeying everything and acting nice only because daddy will spank you otherwise, you're not a good person to begin with.

If your religion is the only thing holding yourself back from raping, murdering, stealing, molesting, keeping slaves, and all that fun stuff, then you are one disgusting individual.

If on the other hand you wouldn't do any of those things if your religion suddenly dissipated, then guess what! you had morals all along. And what does that mean? It means Morals are an intrinsic property to you. Not made up by god, not in existence because you happen to follow the same religion as your parents. They simply exist because you are naturally a good person.

a reply to: randyvs

About as much proof as there is about Jesus' existance. Im not advocating Mithraism, I was just using it as an example.

a reply to: Ghost147

Great post and analysis, Ghost147. There are indeed tons of people who live kinder lives simply because of what they believe they will receive (reward or punishment) after death.

I guess it comes down to a question of if human-kind would be better off, or worse off, if there were no Religions? There are arguments for both, but unfortunately, the answer can't be quantified into a specific, definitive response.

a reply to: carewemust

Thanks I suppose if there were a thorough study on ethics and morality between random individuals whom are religious or not, we would know the answer to that issue.

Perhaps it's my bias, but I personally believe that without religion we would have a more stable environment. I agree that for some, religious guidance can be a form of self reassurance and most definitely comfort. However, I have a difficult time accepting that knowingly feeding misinformation is the way to success.

To see my point of view, simply look at any other religious person other than yours. I can imagine that if one were truly enveloped within their own religious teachings, that seeing a child being taught the teachings of another religion could prove to be quite unbearable to some degree. This view would vary from individual to individual based on their intensity of their faith.

Please go back and read this thread of yours, I found it quite moving and I think you need to remember

Lots of coincidence to be just a coincidence?


www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: misskat1Of course I don't know where you are coming from exactly but there's a huge difference between Religion and Christianity...I am convinced that while some Christians do turn their backs on God, I will always believe that God will not turn his back on those who became part of the adoption...

You may fight, but if you were ever a born again Christian, God will drag you home by the hair if he has to...

a reply to: infolurker

I have not forgotten my roots, but Im questioning how the story of Jesus is the same as so many other Gods. I believe in a higher power, but Im questioning if his name is Jesus.

a reply to: Ghost147

I'm not just talking about the good/bad morals as they relate to whether a person has a religious foundation. I'm also taking into account the additional aid and assistance that goes to people in need here in America, and in impoverished nations from religious organizations/donors.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: infolurker

I have not forgotten my roots, but Im questioning how the story of Jesus is the same as so many other Gods. I believe in a higher power, but Im questioning if his name is Jesus.

Don't fall for that Zeitgeist crap.

Horus, Mithra, Apollo... all Nimrod Mystery Babylon Deception / Remnant of the Watcher Fallen Angels.

Don't be deceived by that crap. If you want to know the whole deal, there is "summary" in the book:


The Shinar Directive: Preparing the Way for the Son of Perdition's Return Paperback – November 30, 2014
by Michael Lake (Author), Thomas Horn (Author), Angie Peters (Editor)

The first world king, the prototype transhuman, the ultimate despot, the Son of Perdition--Nimrod. In Babylon, the Son of Perdition devised the Shinar Directive: the enslaving of humanity and the war against the God of Heaven. God's intervention at the Tower of Babel only delayed his hellish plans. The Luciferian Elite now control three key circles of influence in the world: financial, political, and religious. However, controlling these three systems was not enough. The laborers of Mystery Babylon have been quietly planning and waiting for thousands of years for the releasing of the Watchers of Genesis 6.

I would recommend it if you want to understand what is going on and why.

Technically, Yeshua Ha-Mashiach

Bethlehem Star Scientifically Confirms Biblical Events

I too am in the process of deprogramming and thank you for starting this thread misskat1, as well as everyone who has replied with their own experiences and support.
I grew up in the bible belt in a very religious family, I was never allowed to attend a church with friends that was not southern baptist. It was drilled into me that anything that was not Christianity was devil worship. I was a good little Christian girl and held strong to my beliefs. The summer of my freshman year, at church camp, the theme was the dangers of satanism and possession or something along those lines, it was terrifying and I went to bed every night scared out of my mind. I remember thinking to myself towards the end of my stay there that anything that would have this type of teaching for kids staying away from their parents, in cabins in the woods was not something I wanted to be a part of, it just didn't sit well with me. When I shared these opinions with my camp counselor she insinuated that I had done something to 'let the devil in' and that was why I was beginning to question my faith. It was around that same time that my family decided to change to an assembly of God church and this really confused me because for my entire life until then all other churches were 'wrong' and off-limits. At that moment I decided to just go along with the flow and play the part but my heart was forever changed. Many more instances and realizations were clear to me after that but I was just too afraid of being wrong to leave religion behind, let alone how much I would hurt and let down my family.
It was not until I was 30 years old and moved VERY far away that I felt free enough to explore other options.
I am 7 years into my own spiritual journey, researching and studying everything else there is out there and I have only recently become comfortable enough to fully declare myself as a spiritual person who does not believe in organized religion, leaning more towards paganism actually. I can't express how different I feel, after suffering from depression most of my teenage and adult years I can say with confidence that for me it was the guilt and fear brought on by my religion that made me suffer all these years. I feel like a totally different person, I feel whole and every aspect of my life has changed for the better. Don't get me wrong, I still don't have all the answers but the ones I do have finally just fit in with the way I've always felt and looked at the world, I just didn't know it.
Off to check out your links and hopefully be back to add more to the conversation.