Losing my Religion

a reply to: Ghost147

well let me rephrase so maybe you get the actual premise: what everyone is being taught, whether atheist or not, is being disseminated by a bunch of power mad guys in rome. atheists are not immune to it, clearly, and probably because they are unaware that what they believe to be pure science, is only carefully selected bits of ancient knowledge the mystery school let out of the bag, not to truly enlighten the population but to manipulate it.

a reply to: undo

I understand the entirety of your concept, no need to restate it. The issue with that theory is that anyone can do science. It's not as if science is a whole bunch of ancient books and we just have to believe that they are correct; unlike the bible. Any person in the world has the ability to go out and confirm or disprove scientific conclusions.

You're theory crumbles at it's foundation due to the exact essence of how Science functions through the Scientific Method. Not to mention, yet again, that Atheists don't follow science like religious people follow their holy books because Atheism isn't a belief system. Your inability to acknowledge and understand the definition of "Atheist" get's in the way of you making accurate conclusions.

Once you can actually break through your mental wall with this simple definition, only then will you be able to form rational arguments in accordance to this topic.

a reply to: undo

I'm sorry, but speaking as an atheist I can confidently say that Rome has very little to do with what I was taught and what I now believe in. I rejected religion a long time ago. I read a lot about science and I do my best to research what I read.

originally posted by: undo

what everyone is being taught, whether atheist or not, is being disseminated by a bunch of power mad guys in rome.

Have you ever been to 'rome?'

so you fellas realize, right, that they threw away all the ancient histories, covering some 5000 years and people went along with it? and all on the original pretext that they were going to prove papal interpretation of the bible, was the most legitimate history, and then, once all the other sources that could support the bible were disposed of, they threw out the bible last. but notice, the pontiff continues to pontificate, unimpeded. he don't need no stinkin' bible. imagine how much could be hidden or no longer questioned, because it was all deemed unreliable. not just the bible, but also the texts of the entire ancient world. instant mythology.

the scientific method is being used on only those bits of data that are released in the first place.
selective portions are withheld and the ones that aren't withheld are manipulated so that only certain aspects are considered for research.

ever wonder why the rcc owns and operates the hubble telescope? or the national technology transfer center?

a reply to: undo

Is there anything in mythology you consider to be just that, mythology? Are all ancient texts true in your opinion? If not, how do you discern what is truth, veiled truth, or just creative myths and legends?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: undo

Is there anything in mythology you consider to be just that, mythology? Are all ancient texts true in your opinion? If not, how do you discern what is truth, veiled truth, or just creative myths and legends?

history + metaphor/symbolic.

i was just watching a video series on ancient egypt. the series shows things like black granite that was changed molecularly at some point in the ancient past, so that it crumbles in your hands. limestone that is literally scooped out like it was butter. polished stone that hasn't lost its polish in thousands of years. machinists talking about drill holes that indicate the drill was spinning at an incredible rate, much faster than a guy with a stick and a rope, could do. buildings constructed to be earthquake proof before 2000 BC. and on and on and on and deep breath on, to the point of being absolutely ludicrous. you think the mystery schools don't know how all that was done? it is, afterall, science..

a reply to: undo

How come the Catholic church isn't putting the lid on all these revelations if they have as much control over science and information as you claim? Why do you think various advanced ancient tech hasn't been re-invented by someone somewhere? What was the vid series called that you mentioned?

Thanks for your time.



ETA:

What about when mythologies and legends clash and/or contradict each other?

For example, the wide variety of creation myths. Or myths about how mountains formed etc (i.e. Native American legends).

originally posted by: undo
so you fellas realize, right, that they threw away all the ancient histories, covering some 5000 years and people went along with it? and all on the original pretext that they were going to prove papal interpretation of the bible, was the most legitimate history, and then, once all the other sources that could support the bible were disposed of, they threw out the bible last. but notice, the pontiff continues to pontificate, unimpeded. he don't need no stinkin' bible. imagine how much could be hidden or no longer questioned, because it was all deemed unreliable. not just the bible, but also the texts of the entire ancient world. instant mythology.

We don't deny that there were in fact many times in history when entire ancient cultures were wiped out, in some cases even rewritten. And we surely don't deny that the Bible was rewritten to suit a certain path.

What we find ridiculous is that you're saying science is intrinsically tainted by the Roman Catholic church to control the non-believer's into thinking incorrectly, or what have you.

The notion is absolutely absurd considering that anyone can do science! If there were false theories out there, it's corrected by new discoveries or other tested and re-tested conclusions to show how natural function work more accurately.

You're applying this willful ignorance to everything that doesn't abide by your world view. Stop hiding from reality. it's annoying.

originally posted by: undo
the scientific method is being used on only those bits of data that are released in the first place.
selective portions are withheld and the ones that aren't withheld are manipulated so that only certain aspects are considered for research.

Are you aware of what The Scientific Method is? It's not just something that we pick and choose what to apply it to. It's intrinsic to how one finds accuracy in anything. It's practically just a dressed-up term for common sense.

Ask a question > Do background Research > Construct a Hypothesis > Test your Hypothesis by doing experiments > Analyze your data and draw a conclusion > Report your results for peer review.

Conversely this is what your mind seems do be doing

Form a Conclusion about the world > Find evidence that supports your conclusion > Reject any information that may prove your conclusion false or in any way inaccurate > Do nothing to further your perception of reality by continuing to reject information > Remain ignorant.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

i think the creation accounts are the same history in the near and middle east. not so sure about the far east. all the texts written before 3000 bc. in china, were destroyed by a new ruler and replaced. some of the south and central american histories sound quite similar. india, i have no idea.

let me see if i can embed the links right at the positions in the videos that the items show up. experimental attempt here. the ads still play but it works

black granite

scooped limestone

earthquake proof

a reply to: Ghost147

well i like ya ghost147. nothing against you or even the papacy for that matter, as the guys currently in charge are just doing what the guys before them did. a tradition i suppose. keep the profane outta the library.

a reply to: undo

May I ask you a question?

What evidence would need to exist in order to sway you from your position, entirely? As in, not to believe anything you've stated in this topic, and instead accept the opposing position.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: undo

May I ask you a question?

What evidence would need to exist in order to sway you from your position, entirely? As in, not to believe anything you've stated in this topic, and instead accept the opposing position.

that was kinda my question about you. yep it was. anybody that would think it was okay that our ancient past was literally thrown in the garbage can of history by the catholic hierarchy, is not thinking straight. i understand why people adopt the positions they do as i have had similar questions myself, but feel i have given the data enough credit to reveal at least some of its secrets, and as far as i can tell, it has.

a reply to: undo

So you're not going to answer the question then?

I wasn't aware of anyone here who felt that historical archives being destroyed was a good thing.

After finding this thread I figured that I would add my input rather than start my own

I was raised in Alabama (yeah, I know) as Southern Baptist (even worse), went to church twice a week and went to private school where we had religion (Christian, anything else would be witchcraft) classes daily. I have forgotten more about the Bible than most know. I went through my childhood and most of my young adult life blindly following the exact words of the Bible. However, as I have matured (in my mid-30's now) I have realized that this great big hunky-dory white bearded God in the sky can't quite seem to be what my naive mind always thought that it was.

I do not cast off Christianity as a whole, but I do not believe in denominations and the Americanized version of "God". A particular verse always comes to mind when I think about Christianity in America:
Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." This speaks to me since, in our world, you have to shout from the mountain tops what you believe in and damn all of those who do not believe exactly what you believe. This to me is the exact opposite of what Christianity should be. Maybe it has been twisted so far by men and agendas that the Bible no longer holds any truth (but denominations will tell you that God would never allow that).

In order to keep this short I will end with, I do not blame my parents for raising me the way they did, I don't blame my church or teachers, I blame no one since most are all following what they believe is "right", but in my mind, either God ignores us, or has walked away from this table (earth) and is amused by something else and we are left to our own dealings. I do not renounce God or Christianity, but it is not what it once (supposedly) was many years ago.

I often think of one of the last scenes in "The Devil's Advocate" when Al Pacino describes God and how he is like an absentee father. I hope that I am wrong, but as of now... that is how I feel.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: undo

So you're not going to answer the question then?

I wasn't aware of anyone here who felt that historical archives being destroyed was a good thing.

i don't mean they were literally destroyed, they were just ruled unhistorical by the catholic hierarchy. and this happened, not long after the advent of the printing press, where people suddenly realized that the rcc was not a christian organization but a political tyrant.

get this: somehow they managed to manipulate public opinion to the point where protestants are now accused of the inquistion, nevermind the reality that the protestants were killed in the inquisition because they were former catholics who read the bible for the first time and said "WTF?"

or how about this one : did you know christmas, december 25th is used as a reason to declare the birth of christ never happened and that it was in reality, just a "pagan" solstice? and who decided to set the date of december 25th? the catholic hierarchy, not because it was jesus' actual birthday, btw. based on the actual texts, he would've been born around september.

or this one: i'm told the flood account never happened because you can't fit all the animals on the planet in the ark. had these people actually read the account it says 32 animals, which is not all the animals on the planet. who came up with the "all the animals" concept? i'll give you 3 guesses, first 2 don't count.

or this one: the fall narrative depicts a righteous god, condemning sinful humans. not even close. try the opposite.

there's more.

a reply to: undo

Thanks for taking the time to dig these back up for me, and setting them up so they play at the specific times! I'll give them some more time but for now I will just comment on what I've seen. Which covers the black granite, scooped limestone and earthquake sturdiness.

You know it's funny but I was waiting for the David Hatcher Childress name drop. It just came a little later than I expected. My personal opinion of the guy, is that he is a hack. I'll get back to that though. All I see in this video is two guys making assumptions about stone. Their opinions are shaped solely by a bias. They are looking for proof of ancient aliens/ancient tech and grasping at anything they can. Nothing wrong with looking for evidence like that, don't get me wrong. But herein lies the problem for me..

People like Childress. People like Jay Weidner. People like Daniken. The list is endless. These are the guys that make the rounds on Coast to Coast AM. They are only trying to sell you something. These are the same people who were on the 2012 bandwagon. Only times have changed and now the focus is ancient aliens and not Mayan "prophecies". They're entertainers and charlatans. I used to be all about these guys. I listened to shows like C2C with a passion for at least a decade. It opened my mind up to a great many things, and I have fond memories of listening to it, just pondering life, the universe, and what it was all about.

But then I started noticing the trends. The way these guys operate. They just want people to buy their books. Pay for their lectures. Fight "the man".

Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying there may not be some actual truth in some of their claims. I mean that very, very loosely though. I'm not opposed to the idea that there are really awesome but lost techs. Or that maybe Earth is/was visited by something. I'm open minded about all of that. However I do not just believe every source of information just because I like the way it sounds. I have a huge problem with the sources of all this ancient aliens/ancient tech stuff. And an even bigger problem with people making dumb claims like "There is no way they had the tools to do this" or "These rocks clearly show signs of being hit at the sub atomic level with sonic frequencies to make them lighter". These are the masters of conjecture and just like any asshole politician, they play on the hearts and minds of people.

The way I see it is, we either have a MASSIVE cover up in the scientific community to hide the fact this or that ancient megalithic structure was built using highly advanced technology. Or, all of the people making these claims and presenting their "evidence" are pseudo scientific charlatans.

If it was a massive cover up, than you wouldn't be getting this information from late night talk shows and the History Channel...

Again, I'm not trying to destroy everything you believe in or say it's all false. I do think you should be more objective in your research and conclusions. Be more careful about the sources you trust. Research the people making the claims, research their actions and behaviors. Do they have some groundbreaking new information that will change the way we understand the world but you have to wait three months for their book, which you can get at a discount if you pre-order?

a reply to: undo

I realize what you're saying. Again, I don't see anyone here saying it was a good thing to do any of that either. So I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. Religion is religion no matter how many times its rewritten. It's still false.

Yes, I do know many of those instances you've brought up. Again, not sure why you're bringing them up.

Finally. So you're not going to answer the question then? Again...

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

well rosicrucians, which are a fraternal order, also believe the stones were manipulated using sound. so they are basing it on the teachings of the rosicrucians who claim they got their info from even older data. if the peer reviewed community won't touch the subject with a ten foot pole, people who are drawn to study this type of information, need to survive somehow. they sure aren't going to be offered jobs to study that type of data in mainstream institutions, which is my point.

as far as 2012, i was watching all that too and wondered what it meant since it didn't play out the way they presumed. i think it's playing out politically, atm, across the globe. we have left the age of pisces and are now in the age of aquarius, so what happens when a new age begins? at one point, we were in the age of taurus, and when that ended all the cow worshippers were killed. makes me wonder if there aren't some ETs controlling the planet, that set up that system so they can depopulate it at the beginning of every new age. hopefully that doesn't mean they eat all the dead. gross.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: undo

So you're not going to answer the question then? Again...

no way to answer it without denying what i already know. i can't unknow stuff so you can feel good about yourself.