Losing my Religion

originally posted by: whooknows

And yes, I know things you don't.

Explain.

a reply to: whooknows

Actually Jehovah's Witnesses are known the world over for being the only people to stand up to Hitler. To die in concentration camps rather than pick up arms to fight against anyone. This is a part of the historic record.

Maybe after Joseph Rutherford's letter to Hitler was declined

Early in 1933, the Watchtower office in Berlin was closed and Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in many German states. In an attempt to appease Hitler, Rutherford instigated a Declaration of Facts and sent a Letter to Hitler discussing the Watchtower's support of the Nazi regime.

“In June of the so-called “Holy Year” of 1933 Adolf Hitler’s regime seized the Watch Tower Society’s property in Magdeburg and banned the activities of Jehovah’s people in Germany as regards meetings and literature distribution, though the property was returned that October.” Yearbook 1975 p.174

In an effort to overturn the ban, Rutherford sent a Letter and a Declaration to Hitler, in which he could rightfully praise Hitler for his anti-Anglo/American campaign and his stance against the Jews.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Krazysh0t

All JWs I have ever known have a self righteous attitude. They are told they have the only TRUE Religion, and they are a haughty bunch, that I can tell ya. No matter what you try to show or tell them, they are living in FEAR of Armageddon, and it has been drilled into their heads that Jehovahs Witness is the only true religion and there is no salvation anywhere else. They dont even believe in Jesus. Except he was a good guy prophet that was Michael the Arch Angel before he was born as Jesus. Really, you cant make it up.
They remind me of the Jews, as in, they are entitled because, they are Gods chosen people.

Interesting. I also find it very funny when some Christian from the States meets an Israeli for the first time. More often than not they are ecstatic to have met someone part of "god's chosen people."

Once I was raised in similar fashion in the land built on Christendom and still have to deal with it from my parents, but have been so far removed I thankfully don't have to live with it much at all anymore.

a reply to: whooknows

The only scripture that comes to mind is "stop throwing your pearls before swine". Im sure you will interpret it differently than I do, but, since this is a thread that I started, I can assure you this was not meant to be about your RELIGION.

originally posted by: Annee
Neither do I, an atheist.

There is always reason why someone wrote something. What those writings really mean is a different story.

Interpretation is the issue.

Original text transcribed by Novice Monks. Of course they're gonna see everything as through God's eye.

Then compilation of Chosen text.

The bible is Man speaking. Then man speaking for man, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Collection of stories, legends, compiled through time, but instead having its righteous place among other fictional books, ended up as base for religion.

I am not saying that there is no some 'primitive' wisdom among other things in bible, but there is also some things that by today morality standard we find disturbing.

To explain what I mean by this, let's take another ancient text where we know author, but we are still not sure if epic fight ever took place - Troy. All we know about it, that if this fight ever happen, from epic heroic battle today we would conclude it was actually among earlier genocides, if ever proven to really happen.

Our morality changed in time and we today see those things for what they are, what purpose they served, and to me believing into Armagedon, as our friend is equally unbelievable as if someone believe in Santa Claus. Actually, kids have gifts to claim they have evidence, what our friend here can claim as evidence?!

Wish when I created this account I choose the name 'onewhoknows'

a reply to: misskat1

Next one who wakes me up after a night out better hope there is a heaven....
Have you noticed how the religious have come into your thread to either threaten or look down on you from the high horse they are always on...
Feck em the unimaginative sheep.
Yes they are sheep follow ing shepherds and such.
How anyone with a brain can take it literally is beyond me.

originally posted by: whooknows
No I told you I believe in the Bible, then you said you don't believe what Paul wrote.

I stated don't be stupid, the Bible refers to the entire Bible, including what Paul wrote, obviously.

To not understand that is being stupid. And you are being stupid. Read back in our conversation, and you can understand that, and anyone else that wants to as well.

Really?

I am really sorry, but I could not resist... I hope OP will not mind a bit of a joke... (and question, have you seen this movie, if not, it is really funny and I would recommend it )

Whooknows, you are telling me you know Paul??



EDIT:
Sometimes makes me wonder how would someone scared of Armageddon really react when we meet (it is not question will we) ETs.

a reply to: boymonkey74
Oh God, I think it was me that woke you up. lol I did spend a lot of years pestering people to believe their brand of truth. I was even called preacher in high school. What a sucky way to waste High school.
I actually see them as wolves in sheeps clothing. The rest of the scripture goes something like this "look out for wolves in sheeps clothing, they come into houses and captivate silly women laden with sin"
If that isnt a JW then I really am stupid. lol

a reply to: misskat1

Yea I know how it is after a long time in a religion then to suddenly find out it is all lies. It makes you angry for sure and then you move through stages of denial then acceptance then you move on.

Don't worry about whooknows he probably counting his time preaching to you.

Just wondering if you have read two books by Raymond Franz an ex governing body of Jehovah's witnesses. They are Crisis of Conscience and In search of Christian freedom. both are pretty good and really telling how the religion is. The first one is more doctrinal and how certain countries were treated differently like Mexico and Malawi. The second book is more experiences in how one missionary was disfellowshipped just for taking care of her ill mother.

The laughable generation doctrine they have changed multiple times. Now it is over lapping so to cover over the mistake since the original ones have all died off.

Check out Stephen Hassan's book ,Combat cult mind control. I have been meaning to check it out myself. Ones have said it helps you break out of the cult mind but also helps you in how to talk to family members still in the cult as to help them break out of the cult mind set.

Thanks for the thread. Take care and you are not alone. Check out these video clips from a movie

a reply to: celticdog

I left the JWs 30 yrs ago, so I have dealt with that, I do think I should reread the Franz Material. How I wish I could get my family to read it. I actually grew up while he was still in good standing with the JWs. I was born into 4th generation JWs. I was Baptised at 14 years old. So, that is the reason my family can not talk to me. A decision I made at 14 has kept me from my family for over 30 years. I left when I was in my early 20s, Im 56 now.
But, I have explored so many other Religions since then and had a born again experience that I will never be able to deny. But, I saw it through religious programming. So, Ive spent years searching all the churches since, I was a Baptist for quite awhile, Assembly of God, etc etc, God didnt really seam to fit anywhere.
So, I went from the big Bad Jehovah God, to Jesus, (for a long time) but now I have been forced to look at the historical records about who he was, and they just dont add up.
Anyway, I do know there is a higher power, Im just not sure He She or It is the person of Jesus. Im beginning to think that the truth about the whole thing, is that its the places where all the great teachings converge, that is where you can find the truth.

One of those converging teachings, is love, so since thats about all I know, then I am just going to practice Love. Who ever is really in charge, will understand why I dont trust another mans theology. I have to work out my own Salvation.

a reply to: celticdog

I am going to copy paste these resources, just in case I ever have the opportunity to share them with someone questioning their BS (Belief System). Thank you for the info.

I went through the same thing in 2009, it sucks at first. Overtime you will feel, literally free. There's nothing but chains carrying around a false ideology. Congrats for seeing the truth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: misskat1

I dont believe that the bible is pagan and false.

Neither do I, an atheist.

There is always reason why someone wrote something. What those writings really mean is a different story.

Interpretation is the issue.

Original text transcribed by Novice Monks. Of course they're gonna see everything as through God's eye.

Then compilation of Chosen text.

The bible is Man speaking. Then man speaking for man, repeat, repeat, repeat.

I had decided to bow out of this thread. I probably won't be posting much more, because I think anything I would add has already been said.

I will add however, that everyone here has pretty much made a choice. What led them to their choice is extremely personal. None of us know how we respond if we walked in the shoes of another. I still have moments in my life that confuse and puzzle me, especially when faced with something peculiarly strange. Things that fail the logics test and fall into the category of, "Now, that is not something you see every day".

Sure, if I was gifted, with the ability to know what was going to happen, and was able to follow the action from the very beginning to the very end, it may not have appeared so mystical. But with the little snippet I was privy to, it appeared to be outside of the expected norm, and I always grieved when it was something only I saw. You fear sharing your experience, for fear of ridicule. There are way too many people, especially here on the internet, that live for the opportunity to contradict and dazzle others with their scholarly knowledge. Of, course if you read exactly the same material they read and come away with a different understanding, well, then it is war, and war is never pretty.

I am not an atheist. I have been on this earth a bit too long, and I have been privy to way too many snippets, to believe that everyone of them were strictly by accident. If they were, then I have fall into the category, of one of the luckiest women on Earth. As much as I would like to embrace that moniker, the truth is, I am not even a little bit special. I am observant and I am intuitive, but so is every other person on this planet, so those two things alone don't even come close to making different or special.

I don't think that people need religion to find their way home. In fact, I believe that religion, if anything, is a stumbling block for many. We are creatures of our environment, and we were created to adapt and survive. Unfortunately when an environment is poisoned, many of the purest form die first. The less than perfect hold on a bit longer, but in the end, we all die. The new ones born to the new world are the survivors, the ones that were born through the period of adaptation. Our planet has gone through many changes from its beginning. One thing that seems to remain strong. The need to destroy anything that is different from us.

I think the greatest miracle of all, is that there is any diversity left on this planet, because it sure as hell isn't because of man's doing. If there is any proof of a God, it has to the continuation of any life at all. Left to man's devices, this planet is Mars in the making. If you pray for anything, pray that there is a God. It is the only chance we have.

Give me a second to make it to cover. It will take about an hour. Then you can let your arrows fly.

a reply to: misskat1
Here's a good site you may want to check out. www.jwfacts.com...

I had a cousin who was raped by someone in a kingdom hall and because of there were no witnesses to the act it was a he said she said type of thing. They sided with him. There was nothing done about this because they have a two witness rule and also not to contact authorities so not to spoil the name of Jehovah. I didn't know about this until years afterwards. There are good people in the religion but this religion has things to answer for.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You are very wise.

a reply to: celticdog

I have two close family members that were part of a class action law suit against the JWs. Lots of litigants, they each were awarded over 500,000. To protect them, I will not say what it was about. The JWs think their money is going to building Halls, but they have paid big bucks to keep these stories from the News. When I was in NY my cousin who lives at bethel picked me up in one of the Societies Cadilacs. They buy a fleet every few years.
It was stated earlier that the JWs dont go to war, and do not hurt people. I beg to pardon, but. are you serious? I have not only experienced other families torn apart by them and destroyed, Ive lived it myself.

originally posted by: misskat1

One of those converging teachings, is love, so since thats about all I know, then I am just going to practice Love. Who ever is really in charge, will understand why I dont trust another mans theology. I have to work out my own Salvation.

This put a smile on my face.

a reply to: celticdog

I just got the "counting his time" part. lol

When I was back in NY, I had cousins that also worked at the records keeping building. and on my tour, I got to see the filing cabinets where they keep (or kept, its been awhile) the time cards. Really, all the time cards that they collect for how many of hours you spent in service or bible studies, are kept. They really are.

a reply to: misskat1

This is a really great post and I admire you for having the courage to examine your belief system, and be open to new information as it comes. That's the very definition of denying ignorance and I'm glad to see this community has benefited you. I consider myself spiritual, and feel there are many good lessons within the Bible, but I'm always saddened to see what people will preach in the name of Christianity when it's so far from anything the Bible endorses. Seek your own truth, hold onto Jesus' message of love and tolerance and anything else which works for you. It might be of some use to look for a church or faith which does fit for you, but only after you define FOR YOURSELF what it is you believe. Deprogramming is serious stuff and disillusionment could cause a lot of bitterness towards the entire religion. Take a step back, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater if your faith is important to you, keep it, but don't feel compelled to hold discomforting beliefs. Many will argue that Christianity is meant to be taken as a whole, but it's been edited and many now have a common sense faith about it. Many fundamentalist arguments are venom or political power plays. But, a vocal minority doesn't speak for an entire creed.

a reply to: [post=19258188]AnuTyr[/pos

Energy is a constant, I believe. Cannot be created or destroyed. The ancient astronaut theory, although all but entirely debunked, has given rise to a lot of theories extrapolating on it. Sounds like it'd make an interesting sci fi novel though.