Maine Adds Work Requirement to Welfare Benefits

originally posted by: diggindirt
Please explain to me how requiring an able-bodied adult to work for a living is somehow cruel and unusual punishment that leads to slavery.
I can say for sure, and my offspring can testify that in our household every member was required to pull their own weight. Why would anyone expect to eat for free? I suspect only those who believe in the Free Lunch myth are the ones expecting to be fed at others' expense. I feel sorry for them because someone has done them a giant injustice by teaching them a big fat lie.

There's nothing wrong with a person working for benefits if they're capable. The problem comes from the fact that there are only so many jobs to go around. If the government puts a person to work somewhere, it means another person is losing hours. If they're working at a business 20 hours a week, they're taking a job from someone else and probably lowering the wage at the same time. If they're volunteering they're eliminating jobs all together. This results in even more displaced workers, while at the same time turning jobs that used to pay cash into something that only pay food, and probably paying a lower "wage" too.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Look, I work hard and always have. Yes, I have been in financial difficulty in the past (not of my own doing). I vehemently believe that no one should be allowed to game the social safety net or any other subsidy system --- public or corporate. But no thinking person can see this as anything more than a cheap political stunt. It will have no appreciable financial impact on the State of Maine. In fact, administering it may end up costing more than the ill-gotten food stamps it's trying to prevent. There are numerous other far more significant programs that are being scammed (Medicare comes to mind) that eclipse this food-stamp issue. But politicians rarely have the political balls to go after them because the scofflaws are often businesses that are also donors. But as long as some politician makes it LOOK like they're doing something everyone thinks things are getting fixed. Meanwhile the donations keep coming in and everyone (almost everyone) is happy. Are you old enough to remember when the feds shut down the mental health network to save money? That idea blew-up in their face but they don't care. The states and local governments were forced to pickup the slack.

a reply to: Aazadan

If the government puts a person to work somewhere, it means another person is losing hours. If they're working at a business 20 hours a week, they're taking a job from someone else and probably lowering the wage at the same time.

Please reread what the requirements are because you have got it all wrong.

For a able-bodied childless adult to keep food stamps they either need to be working 20 hours a week which they get paid for. That has nothing to do with the government handing out jobs the person could be working at 7-11.

Or

They need to be actively training for a new career most of which training is free to them.

Or

They can volunteer for a total of 6 (six) total hour per week in a community service program such as going to a assisted living facility and simply helping the elderly which could be sitting with them and keeping them company.

Community service is generally not the type of thing anyone can find paying work in unless you are organizing such programs.

a reply to: Snarl

3 days....i think that is being generous .....the panic will start as soon as the iphones service gets shut off

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Please reread what the requirements are because you have got it all wrong.

For a able-bodied childless adult to keep food stamps they either need to be working 20 hours a week which they get paid for. That has nothing to do with the government handing out jobs the person could be working at 7-11.

It's the 6 hours of volunteer service that gets me. 6 hours being less than 20 means most people are going to choose that. While volunteering can be great, it does take away from jobs others can be doing for a wage.

They need to be actively training for a new career most of which training is free to them.

That requires the jobs to exist sadly. Training is worthless when there aren't any jobs to go around.

a reply to: jtma508

Look, you and I are at an impasse. I disagree with you.

I thought that once some of your misconceptions had been cleared up you would come around and see this is a good thing, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

From what I have read the program has rooted out the people who were most likely gaming the system and unwilling to give a little back to the community for the benefit while those who really needed it have fulfilled the minor requirements.

You are welcome to your opinion on the matter while mine has stayed the same because you have not provided any substantiated information that has swayed me.

Overall it is a state issue that they have chosen to pursue that looks like a sucess.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: diggindirt
Please explain to me how requiring an able-bodied adult to work for a living is somehow cruel and unusual punishment that leads to slavery.
I can say for sure, and my offspring can testify that in our household every member was required to pull their own weight. Why would anyone expect to eat for free? I suspect only those who believe in the Free Lunch myth are the ones expecting to be fed at others' expense. I feel sorry for them because someone has done them a giant injustice by teaching them a big fat lie.

There's nothing wrong with a person working for benefits if they're capable. The problem comes from the fact that there are only so many jobs to go around. If the government puts a person to work somewhere, it means another person is losing hours. If they're working at a business 20 hours a week, they're taking a job from someone else and probably lowering the wage at the same time. If they're volunteering they're eliminating jobs all together. This results in even more displaced workers, while at the same time turning jobs that used to pay cash into something that only pay food, and probably paying a lower "wage" too.

If elephants could fly we would all need stainless steel umbrellas.
You obviously don't know how community service volunteerism works. I've done community service for over 50 years now and have never "taken" a job from anyone. All your "ifs" are just that---you guessing that something "might" happen.
You haven't explained how expecting an able-bodied person to work for their sustenance is cruel and leads to slavery. I could explain to you how sitting on a couch and doing nothing leads to a multitude of health problems and causes one to be even more dependent on the system.

a reply to: Aazadan

It's the 6 hours of volunteer service that gets me. 6 hours being less than 20 means most people are going to choose that. While volunteering can be great, it does take away from jobs others can be doing for a wage.

I see what your misunderstanding. The 6 hours is community service that is not 6 hours at a place that pays in the first place. They will not be working for corporations i.e. Walmarts, 7-11s, chicken shack and so forth. they will be working for charities such as salvation army, mentoring children, welcoming visitors at museums, delivering meals on wheels, and so forth. I hope you are getting the picture now about what kind of work community service is and isn't.

I said before they will not be taking your jobs.

That requires the jobs to exist sadly. Training is worthless when there aren't any jobs to go around.

Job training is so a person will be qualified when a position becomes available. If you are not qualified for a job there is no use complaining that it isn't available.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: grandmakdw

I think volunteer work is absolutely necessary. But, historically, hasn't it mostly been done by aristocrats, churches, retirees and the well off? I mean, there is transportation, child care, chronic illness, to name a few things people with no resources have to deal with.

You mean you think only the well off should volunteer to help others?

If you read my entire thread you would have seen free childcare listed for all children over the age of 8 weeks for the mothers receiving welfare so they can work or volunteer or go to school.

Also, I don't know how many times I said able bodied, that means not chronically ill.

It amazes me that someone would think the only people who should volunteer to help others are those who are "well off". Everyone should volunteer at least some time each week to help others for the good of society in general. Not to volunteer somewhere for at least a little time is the ultimate in selfishness for able bodied adults in all income brackets.

I am just flabbergasted at your idea that only the rich or retired should volunteer, that is the most self centered and selfish thing I have heard in a long time. Churches are made up of people, people who do a lot of volunteer work and most are not aristocrats and neither are they buildings, they are selfless people.

South carolina tried this but it was rolled back. why? because everyone but a few got the special exemption given to students and mothers of children and single parents. Some of Us cant get a job due to disabilities liek me. Just because I didnt have a kid they mad eme look fo rjobs every week but didnt matter i cant do the jobs du e to my problems.

IF i even get a job soon as i fall down th efirst time due to my knees going out or my hands going numb im fired because im a work risk.

a reply to: grandmakdw
If they don't have child care problems, transportation problems, and are healthy. That sounds like a dream job instead of volunteer work. Funded with grants?

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: grandmakdw
If they don't have child care problems, transportation problems, and are healthy. That sounds like a dream job instead of volunteer work. Funded with grants?

Well they dont take into account th eability to GET TO THE JOB acording to when I wa sin the prograsm IN SC. Said its not our problem you cant afford a vehicle. my problem that im applying for disability and cant work. So they dont really care about you if you have no kids.

Where is this volunteer work? In Arkansas its at private companies. If you get cash benefits in Arkansas you must enroll in a work program for upto 30 hours a week. The volunteer part is you work for free at a private company, so in effect its making welfare recipients provide free labor for private business..

a reply to: LDragonFire

Do you have a link for that?

I searched but couldn't find anything tat corroborates your claim.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I see what your misunderstanding. The 6 hours is community service that is not 6 hours at a place that pays in the first place. They will not be working for corporations i.e. Walmarts, 7-11s, chicken shack and so forth. they will be working for charities such as salvation army, mentoring children, welcoming visitors at museums, delivering meals on wheels, and so forth. I hope you are getting the picture now about what kind of work community service is and isn't.

It depends, that may be the intent now, but every other time this has been tried the volunteer portion grows until it does take jobs away from people. It may be unfair to judge this bill on the actions of other bills without it getting a fair shot but history is not in favor of what will go down.

Job training is so a person will be qualified when a position becomes available. If you are not qualified for a job there is no use complaining that it isn't available.

Job training is also worthless when everyone knows the same skills. It creates a situation where there is too much supply for your labor. I experience that now, being in a college town with a few tech companies, and a great (though very difficult) computer science department... if you have computer skills you effectively don't have anything, because everyone has those.

Employers don't want skills. I have routinely seen the bottom of my class get the good jobs in the area (usually I would take on extra work through the school tutoring them to keep the numbers in their program up, so I know exactly what they can do), and the people with actual skills end up with nothing more than a good gpa.

a reply to: Grimpachi

17. Are there any work requirements?

Yes. TEA participants are required to search for and obtain paid employment. Individuals who cannot find immediate paid employment can participate in approved activities that focus on development of skills and experience that lead directly to employment.

Ariansas Department of Workforce Services

I know people on this program, they were first required to look for a job for 30 hours per week for 8 weeks, they didn't get a job. After this they were required to work at a local business for free for 8 weeks to gain experience. I can list the name of said business but I'm not looking to break T&C. It was a local tile and flooring retail store.

Core Activities
1. Unsubsidized employment
2. Subsidized private sector employment
3. Subsidized public sector employment
4. Job search and job readiness (limited to not more than 6 weeks in a federal fiscal year with not more than 4 weeks consecutive).
5. Community service
6. Work experience
7. On-the-job training
8. Vocational educational training (limited to 12 months for an individual), and
9. Caring for a child of a recipient in community service Supplemental Activities
10. Job skills training directly related to employment
11. Education directly related to employment (for those without a high school or equivalent degree)
12. Completion of a secondary school program

TANF

This requirement was for cash assistance not food stamps.

a reply to: LDragonFire

After reading through it, TEA or TANF is specifically for adults with children if I am not mistaken, if they can't find work after a set amount of time they can do one of those 12 things on that list to get cash assistance for up to 2 years.

I may be wrong, but it looks like they can choose so there must be some reason people are choosing to work regular jobs. Could it be because they have a chance of being hired once their benefits run out?

a reply to: Grimpachi

No the people I know explain it is in 8 weeks segments if you read the links you cant just continually look for work for more than 6 or 8 weeks at a time.

Work Activities: Federal law includes 12 work activities. 9 of the activities are 'core' activities in that they may be used to satisfy any of the average weekly participation requirements. The other 3 activities are 'supplemental' in that they may only be used to satisfy the work activity requirement after the 'core' requirement is met.

If you enroll in trade school or college you don't have to do work related activities.

My point was these work related activities include working at "from the list provided"
Core Activities
1. Unsubsidized employment ( regular job)
2. Subsidized private sector employment (paid by government for you to work there)
3. Subsidized public sector employment (paid by government for you to work there)
4. Job search and job readiness (limited to not more than 6 weeks in a federal fiscal year with not more than 4 weeks consecutive).
5. Community service (typical community service)
6. Work experience (you work for free for a private company)

a reply to: LDragonFire

6. Work experience (you work for free for a private company)

It must be too early for my comprehension skills to kick in, I just can't seem to find any more information on the site you linked to regarding #6. Is this info on the site somewhere?

a reply to: LDragonFire

No the people I know explain it is in 8 weeks segments if you read the links you cant just continually look for work for more than 6 or 8 weeks at a time.

That is exactly what I said.

I quote myself: " if they can't find work after a set amount of time they can do one of those 12 things on that list to get cash assistance for up to 2 years. "

Still as long as they do one of those 12 things they get paid.

As I said before there has to be a reason they choose to work for a company over the other options. If they wanted to do easy work they would all be doing community service sorting clothes or something at a goodwill or such which makes me think that by working at a regular job they feel they may have an opportunity at real employment with them after benefits run out.

Another reason I can think of is on a job resume they would be able to have a reference and show they have been employed without long gaps in-between.