Metaphysica Music Theory

a reply to: KAOStheory

You may not have understood the question, but you answered it, thank you.

Happy to be of service. I hope my answer fully bears out whatever exotic theory you are trying to prove.

"A432" is not a cult - what a ridiculous statement - it's a pitch standard, and the proper one for science, healing, physics, and attunement to the solar spectrum and the cosmic keyboard.

Precisely -- a cult built up around a pitch standard -- that was never a standard. The Church of the Almighty A.

[quone]I don't care if you think the world is flat, it's round
You have to prove it's round first.

a reply to: Astyanax

What part of those charts I took the time to upload and post for you are you not understanding?

a reply to: KAOStheory

What part of those charts I took the time to upload and post for you are you not understanding?

Probably the part that isn't there.

I see a chart showing (roughly) the frequency ranges of the human voice and various musical instruments, followed by a table showing the frequency ranges of the first eight notionally audible octaves. The frequencies given are based on a reference frequency of Middle C = 256Hz. The charts are from a book on 'acoustics for musicians' (i.e. kindergarten acoustics) printed over a century ago.

What I don't see is any proof that A = 432Hz was ever a frequency standard. C = 256 does not equal A = 432.

This useful page enables us to calculate the relationship between notes using various reference frequencies and types of intonation. Let's try it, shall we?

• First, we set our reference frequency, as defined by those marvellous charts of yours. C = 256Hz.
  
  
• Next, let's calculate the frequency ratio of Middle C to next-highest A, or A4 as it is sometimes referred to.
  
  
• Different forms of intonation space the notes out differently along the octave, so a reference frequency of C = 256Hz will give different values for A in different intonation systems. We'll start with the commonest system: 12-tone equal temperament. Using the table of octave divisions at the above link, we see that the ratio of C to A, a major sixth interval (nine semitones), is 1.682 in equal temperament. Then if C = 256, A = 256 x 1.682, which gives us 430.6Hz.
  
  Hmm. Close, but no cigar. Even rounding up to the next integer still only gives you 431Hz — which is a bit of a problem for your theory, because 431 is a prime number and cannot be divided by any other integer except 1.
  
  
• Ah, you say, but equal temperament is evil and false, part of the Great Pitch Conspiracy. The music of the spheres is played on instruments in just intonation, which uses Pythagorean whole-number intervals.
  
  Very well. Back to the page above. Surprisingly, it also gives us the table of frequency ratios for just intonation. They're a lot simpler than the equal-temperament table, because the numbers are all simple fractions. The frequency ratio of a major sixth interval in just intonation is 5/3, or 1.667 : 1.
  
  Then if C = 256, A = 256 x 1.667, which gives us — oh dear! — 426.8Hz.
  
  
• So if, by posting those charts, you intended to 'prove' that C = 256Hz equal A = 432Hz, you have not succeeded.

Of course, you don't have to follow any actual system. You can try different keys; since pitches in just intonation vary from key to key, you may hit upon one that gives you C256 = A432, or nearly. Or you can arbitrarily decide that C = 256 is the same as A = 432, as the proponents of 'Verdi tuning', the Schiller Institute, have done, and proceed accordingly.

The Schiller Institute are, of course, a bunch of crackpots.

Is there any part of the above that you are not understanding?

a reply to: Astyanax

I understand every word. Here's how I explain it (based on reasons you say you don't believe in, but again, I do, and your opinion on the metaphysical aspects hold little weight in this forum, as it is about that exactly.)

A432Hz tuning pitch is NOT the same as C256Hz/C128Hz pitch.
In A432Hz, C is 256.78Hz, and 128.4Hz. Not a big difference, however in C256/128Hz pitch, A is 430.54Hz.
In Maria Renolds’ scale of twelve fifthss, A432Hz gives us C256/128Hz.

So, how to decide which to tune to, A432, or the C256?
I chose A432 for two reasons. For one, A is what we set our standard to.
Second, C# is Om 136.10.
This is your C# in A432Hz pitch, but in C256Hz pitch, C# is 135.61Hz.

I know the Schiller Institute are crackpots. They don't even understand the real reasons why orchestras tune high, and they promote the BS about Nazis and A440. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Horowitz was a member.

i find this right up my ally. Im a musician, since i was 19 ive been making all kinds of music from techno, ambient, industrial, darkwave. And my lyrics usually express how i go through perceiving how to be happy or deflect evil.
I started hearing voices when i would "jam" loudly in the basement. It was imitating my dad yelling my first name.
In my 30s the voices became constant, completely encompassing my mind and body with physical remote attacks. My cannabis use exagerated the loudness and effects as if whatever was attacking me wanted to deprive me of pleasure and life. I think by making certain songs i angered someone or something that triggered a mass attack on my life and psyche. But the way out..encompasses exactly the things the OP is studying. When used correctly, voices can be told to F# off over time.

a reply to: sanitizedinfo

Thanks for the comment, sorry to hear that - my Dad taught me, and Mom was pretty supportive save for late-night drumming...
I like how you used "F#" to represent you-know-what...
very appropriate

a reply to: KAOStheory

Right. So in this metaphysical tuning system, A isn't really 432Hz after all, or else C isn't really 256Hz. It's all compromises and approximations, fiddles and fudges.

Do you know what these arithmetical contortions remind me of? Ptolemy's epicycles. Are you familiar with them?

The ancient astrologers believed that the planets, being inhabitants of the celestial sphere, must be perfect objects, and must therefore move in perfect circles. So they created an absurdly complicated system of 'epicycles' -- circles upon circles upon circles -- to approximate the planetary motion they observed in the skies. But for all its complexity their system never actually matched up with reality -- because, of course, planets don't move in circles, they move in ellipses.

A=432 cultists are just the same, hopefully fiddling the numbers to try to get reality to match up with their theories. Still, it's a fairly harmless form of lunacy, and rather sweet in its way.

a reply to: sanitizedinfo

See a doctor. You probably have neural damage to your auditory system from all that loud jamming. You are experiencing aural hallucinations -- not the sort suffered by schizophrenics but physiologically generated ones caused by the spontaneous firing of neurons in your auditory system (meaning that you haven't gone crazy, but your ears have).

It's something like tinnitus, except that your brain is interpreting the spontaneously generated nerve impulses as voices. It's rarer than tinnitus, but it happens. You are relatively lucky -- some people get orchestras or brass bands playing in their heads, or traffic noises or war-movie soundtracks. Imagine suffering from that!

There's a book about the crazy and terrifying ways in which our perception of music and sound can be damaged or distorted. It's by the great physiologist Oliver Sacks and it's called Musicophilia. It describes cases similar to yours, as well as some of the ways in which such conditions can be treated or at least palliated. You should read it.

a reply to: Astyanax

Um - what?
Can you not see the images i'm posting? Because it appears your not even reading the words i'm typing.

A432 is an A, and it's a real tuning system, like it or not - none of us who use it care!

An "A" is whatever the hell you want it to be, between 420 and 450Hz, technically. A440 is the standard but I already showed proof that it's "widely ignored," which you decided not to acknowledge - "ignore it and it will go away?" yea no sorry.

Below is a G#, above is a B. It's not questionable either, check your app, or yknow, generally accepted rules of music. Again, no web link for the lazy, just real life knowledge and experience. It's in books, it's on the web, it's in charts you don't read so why should I bother posting references when you don't read the post to begin with? I listed all those in my book, i said it all better there too. This isn't even what the OP is about so you're lucky I'm even still talking about this on this thread, when I've already covered it extensively in others, and my book. And the accredited classes I teach and certify people in. You called it a cult, and now I'm sure you'll call me a recruiter - do you think we're all gonna drink the kool-aid or something? I don't understand what you mean. Are you afraid we might brainwash your loved-ones and force them to listen to the Beastie Boys' "Check Your Head" album all day or something? That was a really weird and kinda silly statement. And yes, that album is A432. And that was 1992. And yes, the 3 Bu-Jus (as we affectionately call the expatriots lol) knew what they were doing. "Namaste" is C# Om.


"Gratitude" is in E, of which i use 2.5, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, and 160Hz to induce astral projection, help correct cognitive dissonance, and of which the 40Hz is used in Parkinsons' centers, based on the work of the Monroe Institue and others.



I think you must have missed the whole point of the OP where I said a member of the German Board of Radiology hired me because I know about what I speak. He had this plan for THREE YEARS, bought my book, and emailed me after the third chapter. Not trying to toot my own horn here, but you really are a bit out of your league here.

I, and many many many other people - including entire cultures - use A432 whether you like it or not. Some always have, always will, could care less about and never heard of the "standard." Have you ever picked up a didgiridoo made by an Aboriginese and they said "It's C" and played it? Cuz I have and It's not. It's C# Om, within 5Hz, every time. You think they use PitchLab to make those, or their heart-intuited note?

You may have traveled the world but you forgot to take notes. Literally.

a reply to: KAOStheory

There is really no need for my continued participation in this thread. My point is made.

This post is merely to point out that
you never mentioned anything about the 'German Board of Radiology' earlier. Not that it makes any difference. You find crackpots everywhere.

a reply to: Astyanax

Lol now you're just being ridiculous.

There was really no need for you to post here in the first place - i enjoyed the back and forth somewhat but more annoyed as to have to repeat myself to someone who couldn't just click an older post of mine to answer their own grade-1 questions on an off-topic subject, yet tell me I need to post references correctly - i already did, the fact you haven't found them on your own tells me you don't care, so why should i care that you don't?

and you still fail to understand that if you don't believe in metaphysics, then you are simply posting in the wrong forum, no?
Yes.

Bye bye for now...
If I post in science, not METAphysics, we can talk.
and trust me, i will.

a reply to: KAOStheory

to repeat myself to someone who couldn't just click an older post of mine to answer their own grade-1 questions on an off-topic subject

Here's a list of all the questions I asked you.

(1)

Why would you suffer the inconvenience of being out of tune with the rest of the musical world, which uses A=440 unless you thought there was something special about A=432?

You answered that one -- you do think there is something special about it.

(2)

I would be very interested to see proof that 'military marching bands tune to A444 or higher, but Hindu Ragas are A432'.

You failed to provide any. Just a silly YouTube video.

(3)
I asked you to explain your procedure for establishing the keys and reference frequencies of various ethnic musics that don't share Western concepts of key and tonality. You didn't explain, just waved your arms a bit, raising the suspicion that you don't have one and don't even understand why a rigorous procedure for this is necessary.

(4)
I asked you to provide a proper reference for a book you mentioned, and this you did. You would, of course, have done it in the first place if you were an experienced scholar. But thanks anyway.

(5)
I asked you how powerful in terms of acoustic pressure a sound would have to be in order to levitate a cube weighing 1kg. Not surprisingly, you didn't answer. The answer would have revealed what nonsense such claims are. Or we could be charitable and assume you don't know how to do the maths.

(6)
I asked you to explain how come A=432Hz is the same as C=256Hz, when you insisted they were after I showed mathematically that they are not. Your answer: 'Oh, it's metaphysical.'

Two questions answered out of six. Not a very impressive performance, I am sorry to say. But it doesn't matter -- because, as I have already made clear, I didn't come to this thread to ask questions. I came here to express an opinion, and answer any questions people might have about that. Which I have done.

I do not doubt that you have profited from my instruction, but please don't bother to thank me. Debunking silliness and superstition is is its own reward.

I never would have imagined such a heated debate could erupt over 8 Hz of difference in a note.
Trippy, but entertaining.
Shut up and play yer guitar, to quote Zappa.

aw, so the people who don't understand metaphysics are either giving up on or laughing at the thread.
I'm shocked and surprised as much as anyone else here, which you can guess on a scale of 0-to-completely don't get it or care, right?
How are you contributing to this thread or site by jumping in about stuff you don't believe in?
Lost in space, you are...good luck with that.
You know bottom line is I try to share here in hopes of helping others to save time in their quests on this quite popular topic - and bottom line is, I have a heart condition I was born with and I look 10 years younger than I am, because, Sympathetic Vibratory Physics.
Argue all day and nite, until your poor little hearts explode, while we just -

a reply to: skunkape23

I agree 100%; but don't you just hate it when someone tries to sell you a bill of goods?

The OP has a book to plug. He's mentioned it six times in the thread already.

a reply to: KAOStheory

bottom line is I try to share here in hopes of helping others.

And if they send you a u2u asking where they can buy your book, that's just a bonus.

Fair enough.

How do people who only believe in one of the two expect to ever understand
Spirtual Science?