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Does Anyone Actually hate Christians??
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I think you missed his point, and reference scripture as a distraction.
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
While I may have missed his point could be very well true, he also didn't understand scripture either, or he wouldn't have quoted that. Someone outside of the faith thinks that one passage applies to everyone, and to all discernment of right and wrong - when it does not. Figured he may like to know, at any rate.
If not, I was bored anyway..
While I may have missed his point could be very well true, he also didn't understand scripture either, or he wouldn't have quoted that. Someone outside of the faith thinks that one passage applies to everyone, and to all discernment of right and wrong - when it does not. Figured he may like to know, at any rate.
If not, I was bored anyway..
a reply to: Kitana
In my experience non Christians understand the bible better because they don't have some creep telling them what to believe. Independent Christianity is cool. Organized religion is a tax free business and will do/say anything to stayvin business
In my experience non Christians understand the bible better because they don't have some creep telling them what to believe. Independent Christianity is cool. Organized religion is a tax free business and will do/say anything to stayvin business
a reply to: Kitana
In my experience non Christians understand the bible better because they don't have some creep telling them what to believe. Independent Christianity is cool. Organized religion is a tax free business and will do/say anything to stayvin business
In my experience non Christians understand the bible better because they don't have some creep telling them what to believe. Independent Christianity is cool. Organized religion is a tax free business and will do/say anything to stayvin business
a reply to: Kitana
Judge not, lest ye be judged. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Christianity is not about judging people. You should try and imitate christ, don't put words out there that it's Christian teaching to be judgemental. Jesus didn't roll with the most pious crowd. He made them pious by example.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Christianity is not about judging people. You should try and imitate christ, don't put words out there that it's Christian teaching to be judgemental. Jesus didn't roll with the most pious crowd. He made them pious by example.
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
We do, and we must judge. Every day in some sense, we must judge. Judge however does not mean to sit on a soapbox and condemn, but in some translations the word we use as judge, is also translated as discern. Same word, but only God is judge as in judge jury and executioner. So what do we do as human beings, we judge - or in other words we discern.
We must judge what is right from wrong, or discern right from wrong, truth from falsehood, what is harmful from what is not harmful and so forth. We must, and do, judge. No, not in the same way God does, but in the way we must as human beings.
If the atheist sees someone they are close to doing something harmful, they would speak up - say hey, I think this is harmful and this is why. Is there anything I can do to help you, or guide you on a better path? It is something that we as human beings naturally want to do, we have protective instincts for those we are close to.
The bible teaches us that these instincts are to be used toward fellow Christians and not just anyone, and only once we have judged ourselves, repented ourselves, and are in a place where we are capable of good insight.
I have shown you in the bible where it does in fact say we are to judge, or discern where it comes to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ - very specifically in fact. (those 3 verses were all quoted directly from the bible) I have also shown you where it says we are not to judge anyone who is not our fellow brother or sister in Christ, as God will deal with them himself.
Let the one without sin cast the first stone, means we do not sit as judge jury and executioner above anyone, only God has that authority, but the judging that we do is of a different and lesser type.
Jesus did his fair share of judging (discerning sin) in others, (think overthrowing the tables in the temple, think telling the pharisees they were sons of their father the devil) and bringing it to their attention, within the church. He was first to point out, and stand against, hypocrisy and bad behavior. He was also first to forgive sin, if that sin was repented of. (repent implies to stop doing a thing) And yes, we are, within our churches, to uphold and follow in Jesus footsteps, in his example, as well as show his love and mercy. We cannot however, do any of it from a place of hypocrisy ourselves, that is the removing the log part.
Outside of the churches while we know right from wrong, and live in the same world everyone else does, nothing of what others do is any of our concern. God allows the sun to shine upon the just and the unjust alike. How we are to treat those outside the church, is just like this: "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
We do, and we must judge. Every day in some sense, we must judge. Judge however does not mean to sit on a soapbox and condemn, but in some translations the word we use as judge, is also translated as discern. Same word, but only God is judge as in judge jury and executioner. So what do we do as human beings, we judge - or in other words we discern.
We must judge what is right from wrong, or discern right from wrong, truth from falsehood, what is harmful from what is not harmful and so forth. We must, and do, judge. No, not in the same way God does, but in the way we must as human beings.
If the atheist sees someone they are close to doing something harmful, they would speak up - say hey, I think this is harmful and this is why. Is there anything I can do to help you, or guide you on a better path? It is something that we as human beings naturally want to do, we have protective instincts for those we are close to.
The bible teaches us that these instincts are to be used toward fellow Christians and not just anyone, and only once we have judged ourselves, repented ourselves, and are in a place where we are capable of good insight.
I have shown you in the bible where it does in fact say we are to judge, or discern where it comes to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ - very specifically in fact. (those 3 verses were all quoted directly from the bible) I have also shown you where it says we are not to judge anyone who is not our fellow brother or sister in Christ, as God will deal with them himself.
Let the one without sin cast the first stone, means we do not sit as judge jury and executioner above anyone, only God has that authority, but the judging that we do is of a different and lesser type.
Jesus did his fair share of judging (discerning sin) in others, (think overthrowing the tables in the temple, think telling the pharisees they were sons of their father the devil) and bringing it to their attention, within the church. He was first to point out, and stand against, hypocrisy and bad behavior. He was also first to forgive sin, if that sin was repented of. (repent implies to stop doing a thing) And yes, we are, within our churches, to uphold and follow in Jesus footsteps, in his example, as well as show his love and mercy. We cannot however, do any of it from a place of hypocrisy ourselves, that is the removing the log part.
Outside of the churches while we know right from wrong, and live in the same world everyone else does, nothing of what others do is any of our concern. God allows the sun to shine upon the just and the unjust alike. How we are to treat those outside the church, is just like this: "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
edit on 14-1-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Kitana
You can't judge someone else without elevating yourself over them. God doesn't need your help judging people. Good thoughts, good words, good deeds. Don't make life more complicated for yourself. Your way has never worked. It never will. Your judgements mean nothing to no one, so you are wasting time.
You can't judge someone else without elevating yourself over them. God doesn't need your help judging people. Good thoughts, good words, good deeds. Don't make life more complicated for yourself. Your way has never worked. It never will. Your judgements mean nothing to no one, so you are wasting time.
a reply to: GnosisisfaithI've read that whole book. Why are you quoting it? Don't YOU have thoughts of your own to contribute?
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
You don't judge the man, the man is no different from yourself. As a Christian, you are more conscious of your own sin and that place which you came from, than anyone else ever could be. But you do judge the action, the sin. Which, as a Christian, you do rise above when Christ is in you.
Example. Murderer. Do you look at the man and say "I am disgusted with this man, he is evil" , No! You say, murder is a sin, and is wrong, the man is no different than you. Simply a different wrong perhaps on his account, but no different than you. What God does with him from there, is between the man and God.
What we know about God is that, he usually loves the sinners best, as they are best able to show His grace and mercy - and love more and deeper when forgiven. Its sin He doesn't care for.
You don't judge the man, the man is no different from yourself. As a Christian, you are more conscious of your own sin and that place which you came from, than anyone else ever could be. But you do judge the action, the sin. Which, as a Christian, you do rise above when Christ is in you.
Example. Murderer. Do you look at the man and say "I am disgusted with this man, he is evil" , No! You say, murder is a sin, and is wrong, the man is no different than you. Simply a different wrong perhaps on his account, but no different than you. What God does with him from there, is between the man and God.
What we know about God is that, he usually loves the sinners best, as they are best able to show His grace and mercy - and love more and deeper when forgiven. Its sin He doesn't care for.
a reply to: Kitana
I just don't murder. My feelings won't change anything, and if they would Id be the first to judge. Then it would be accomplishing something. Murder is extreme, im talking about judging people who are different, or you disagree, who are not hurting anyone.
I just don't murder. My feelings won't change anything, and if they would Id be the first to judge. Then it would be accomplishing something. Murder is extreme, im talking about judging people who are different, or you disagree, who are not hurting anyone.
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Lets talk about that then. I don't agree with lots of things, but what other people do is none of my concern, unless they come into my church and say they are my brother or my sister.
Lets take gay marriage - have at it, I don't care about it whatsoever, to each his own, live however you please. However, come to my church and ask my preacher, for instance, to marry a same sex couple under God, and I will speak against it.
In one situation, I have no right nor cause to speak, in another, I have a right to, not only the right, but a duty to.
Does this mean I either like or don't like the gay couple? Neither really, as I like them just fine, show them love and care, help them if they call upon me during a time of distress, would be happy to save them from drowning for instance or help them with school work, give my assistance to them in the office and such.
Is the action a sin in my point of view? Yes, but they are no worse than me and certainly no less deserving than me.
Perhaps this is a more helpful example?
Lets talk about that then. I don't agree with lots of things, but what other people do is none of my concern, unless they come into my church and say they are my brother or my sister.
Lets take gay marriage - have at it, I don't care about it whatsoever, to each his own, live however you please. However, come to my church and ask my preacher, for instance, to marry a same sex couple under God, and I will speak against it.
In one situation, I have no right nor cause to speak, in another, I have a right to, not only the right, but a duty to.
Does this mean I either like or don't like the gay couple? Neither really, as I like them just fine, show them love and care, help them if they call upon me during a time of distress, would be happy to save them from drowning for instance or help them with school work, give my assistance to them in the office and such.
Is the action a sin in my point of view? Yes, but they are no worse than me and certainly no less deserving than me.
Perhaps this is a more helpful example?
edit on 14-1-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Kitana
I get your point, judging the action. Not the person.
And your next post about Homosexuality is giving me some hope as well.
Sadly enough, it is not the official position of the church, nor the bible.
For instance:
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24"
"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21"
So even when a woman is raped she shall be stoned!!
Talk about not judging the woman here.
I get your point, judging the action. Not the person.
And your next post about Homosexuality is giving me some hope as well.
Sadly enough, it is not the official position of the church, nor the bible.
For instance:
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24"
"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21"
So even when a woman is raped she shall be stoned!!
Talk about not judging the woman here.
a reply to: Kitana
Care to elaborate that more? I really don't get it.
Wasn't the Bible gods word, we (all humans plus all animals and plant) his creation and therefore bound to the scripture?
So in your theory say moslems, buddhists are not bound to the bible and can do what they want to do?
I am geting confused here.
While I may have missed his point could be very well true, he also didn't understand scripture either, or he wouldn't have quoted that. Someone outside of the faith thinks that one passage applies to everyone, and to all discernment of right and wrong - when it does not. Figured he may like to know, at any rate.
Care to elaborate that more? I really don't get it.
Wasn't the Bible gods word, we (all humans plus all animals and plant) his creation and therefore bound to the scripture?
So in your theory say moslems, buddhists are not bound to the bible and can do what they want to do?
I am geting confused here.
a reply to: Kitana
The bible says:
Exodus 21:12 ESV
“Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. "
And
Numbers 35:31 ESV
Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.
And
Exodus 21:16 ESV
“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
And
Leviticus 24:17 ESV
“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.
Which leads to another moral question; if murder is wrong and shall be punished by death. Isn't the one who puts the murderer to death a sinner as well? Because:
Exodus 20:13 ESV
“You shall not murder.
Trust me, we can play this game for days. And i haven't gone into the subject of genocide in the bible yet.
I ll uphold that for later.
Example. Murderer. Do you look at the man and say "I am disgusted with this man, he is evil" , No! You say, murder is a sin, and is wrong, the man is no different than you. Simply a different wrong perhaps on his account, but no different than you. What God does with him from there, is between the man and God.
The bible says:
Exodus 21:12 ESV
“Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. "
And
Numbers 35:31 ESV
Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.
And
Exodus 21:16 ESV
“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
And
Leviticus 24:17 ESV
“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.
Which leads to another moral question; if murder is wrong and shall be punished by death. Isn't the one who puts the murderer to death a sinner as well? Because:
Exodus 20:13 ESV
“You shall not murder.
Trust me, we can play this game for days. And i haven't gone into the subject of genocide in the bible yet.
I ll uphold that for later.
originally posted by: svetlana84
a reply to: Kitana
While I may have missed his point could be very well true, he also didn't understand scripture either, or he wouldn't have quoted that. Someone outside of the faith thinks that one passage applies to everyone, and to all discernment of right and wrong - when it does not. Figured he may like to know, at any rate.
Care to elaborate that more? I really don't get it.
Wasn't the Bible gods word, we (all humans plus all animals and plant) his creation and therefore bound to the scripture?
So in your theory say moslems, buddhists are not bound to the bible and can do what they want to do?
I am geting confused here.
!) The bible is the Word of God, for His people.
2) people have free will
3) Not all people want to be God's, and God forces no man
4) if a Buddhist wants to be a Buddhist and a Muslim wants to be a Muslim then it is their choice. Christianity is not something forced on anyone. If God wanted to force people, he would not have created us with free will.
5) ALL people are given a chance to follow, or not follow.
Take it or leave it, it is an offer. In my opinion it is a better offer than the things of this world, but still an offer nonetheless. God deals with us all how He sees fit in the end. You, me, everyone.
" Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."
I hate the hypocrisy of it all. I know they don't actually believe in what they proclaim to believe but they cling to the lie because of the fear that
a "God" may exist to judge them after they die. You can tell most person do not believe by their actions and lifestyle...they do not live by faith and
prayer but take the same precautions and care in their daily lives as any atheist does.
a reply to: svetlana84
We are under a New Covenant, and it gets fairly well in depth, but we do not follow levitical law. Do you want to understand why?
It is a lot, and a very lengthy topic.. this is why I ask. I will only discuss it if you really want to understand it.
We are under a New Covenant, and it gets fairly well in depth, but we do not follow levitical law. Do you want to understand why?
It is a lot, and a very lengthy topic.. this is why I ask. I will only discuss it if you really want to understand it.
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