Police Brutality Syndrome

originally posted by: jrod

originally posted by: LoveSolMoonDeath

Naive. Unless you live in a perfect world. Remove all authority figures in a society and watch it being taken over by tugs in a matter of days. Fine tuned balance between freedom/'social order' is hard to acheve but should be the goal though.

I believe it is naive to think society will quickly regress with the removal of "all authority figures."

--I really do think so. Unless you live in a very low density area, you'll need a group of people to maintain order. Else they'll be people grouping to fight/abuse others. Inevitable because of the human nature. You may be a nice guy but there are a$$ out there thrust me. Yes I'm sure you can defend yourself, but do you want to always live on the edge with your family?

I do not know where you live, but the police where I live do very little to maintain order and justice.

--That's bad since we all should have confidence to be treated fairly by police.

The reasons why aware people call the police over a crime is often to protect themselves or their assets(a police report is often required for an insurance claim).

--And it's ok. Police is there to protect people and assets. Police report also minimize the number of false claim to insurance, keeping the cost from raising from many many frauds. I've seen alot myself and the cost is automatically shared between other honest insured peep like you and me.

Many naive people call the police over a variety of stupid reasons, like their neighbor playing the music to loud, or see something they deem suspicious because they have been brainwashed to live in fear and spy on thy neighbor.

--Yes some abuse. But police officer must use discernment. Complait does not equal ticket or arrestation. It must be founded. Many are made by intolerant/insecure people and are often 'talked down'

We can police our own no problem. An illusion has been created any too many brainwashed and naive people have been sold on the idea we need an aggressive militarized police force to act as judge, jury, and too often executioner.

--Wow! you live with different police forces that I know of surely. That is sad. I understand police force does not and should not equal military organisation. Each have it's own purpose. I don't beleive in an all out citizen policing. In fact, a lot if not most of the job is to stop these kind of escalations.

Sorry I don't beleive in the 'anarchy' and firmly think we need some sort of cohesion to be a society. BUT you're right in the fact that it should be balanced with one's freedom and others right. Not an easy task to get everyone to agree and to what extend.

What would you like to call it.?
a reply to: Shamrock6

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath
I never said anarchy is the way to go. I just think it is naive to believe the police maintain order and without them society will crumble.

a reply to: jrod

How can one measure the amount of crimes that the police deter?

Just because you think police do little to maintain order and safety, doesn't mean they aren't maintaining order and safety.

Of course, I am not saying society would crumble without the police. I have no way (just like you) of knowing that because I have never experienced it.

Let's have a year trial run! No police for a year!

a reply to: TorqueyThePig
I just call it like I see it. At least you are not claiming that society will crumble without police.

Another problem I see with today's police force is how cities, counties, and states use the police force to generate revenue. It seems like they are not concerned about catching thieves because that does not bring in revenue for the state.

I have caught thieves in the act, got the plate # and vehicle description and it took about an hour for an officer to respond and he didn't even bother running the tag # I gave him. Yet when someone calls 911 because the think a group of kids might be smoking weed in their car at a public parking lot, the response time is in minutes.

It does appear you guys will not hesitate violating someone's 4th Amendment rights at a traffic stop, or as a result from a tip from a 'concerned citizen' or just straight up profiling in hopes of making an easy arrest and seizing the vehicle and other assets a person may have in their possession.

a reply to: jrod

"You guys."

Thanks for making blanket accusations.

I have never violated anybody's rights thank you.

Anyways, you are actually incorrect in one of your statements.

Catching criminals actually does generate revenue. When a person is arrested the police department/sheriff's office is paid restitution from the suspect just as the victims are. This money goes directly to the police department.

a reply to: bucsarg

For the mass majority of LEOs, i believe they have a sincere desire to serve, just as our military veterans did, but there are "those" that are just looking for an excuse to unleash their evil, so they find places to fulfill their desires and the best place is in law enforcement.

Problem is now is we've became military, because most of our LEOS have came through the gulf wars, and they are seriously screwed up, still looking to search and destroy, plus there's allot of animosity and prejudice because of Obama and his cronies perpetually stirring the pot.

Its just the sign of the times, like back in the 60s and early 70s...like anything else it will subside, and when all the universe realigns, it will start up again..Lol

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

The police do make the streets safer, I'm not denying that.

But spend 2 days doing good police work by investigating someone who's been robbing houses. Or just go out in one night and bust 5 people on minor drug charges, which will not only look better on the stats, but also generate funds to the courts in large fines, as well as generate profit for the department, like you have admitted.......... I can only guess what your superiors would prefer you to be doing.

You can't deny, its an issue.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I was never really a big drug enforcer.

After I was off training, I practically let everyone go that only had a little bit of weed on them.

Crack, and pills are another story. I usually made those arrests because a vast majority of the time I knew who the person was and their arrest history (burglaries, thefts, assaults, etc).

Actually, I am all for a trial run of drug legalization. If crime doesn't increase I say keep it that way.

I was also never a big ticket writer. I wrote more verbal warnings than anything. I would only right major citations that contributed to an accident.

Doesn't matter anymore though, I am almost able to leave the job! I cannot wait!

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Catching criminals actually does generate revenue. When a person is arrested the police department/sheriff's office is paid restitution from the suspect just as the victims are. This money goes directly to the police department.

So where does this money come from then ?...if the suspect has no money how and where do the victim and the department get paid from ?

a reply to: bucsarg

In a word yes. Go size up a mall cop who is in police academy- he'll tell ya how its gonna be when his testicles finally descend. I've worked with my fair share and yeah, it attracts a kind. But there is a new level of encouragement for these traits. It's getting demonstrably worse as police fatalities continue to fall and yet they continue to open up on record numbers of unarmed men women and children.

Part of it is the way the false terrorism narrative has elevated the police to front line soldiers, even though there simply are no attacks besides the ones where the FBI gives fake bombs to the mentally disabled and then puts them on TV.
Part of it is the number of improperly cared for combat veterans who are being rubber stamped good to go.
Part of it is the recession and the need to contain the obvious results of desperation.
Part of it is management culture- it isn't individual officers who ordered firing range targets with little girls brandishing guns on them- i don't pretend to know what that culture was thinking behind closed doors when they made that decision.

But I STRONGLY suspect that in 30 years we will also be finally getting declassified documents about the latest psyops tricks that were introduced in the recent wars. I believe those documents when they come out will detail advances in mental conditioning that create an increase willingness to kill regardless of reason and decreased ability to recognize the humanity of others, being implemented both in military and civilian authorities.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Many criminals do have jobs.

If not, generally speaking, a part of a convicts release or probation requirements is holding a job if they don't already have one.

That said, I never said restitution was always received on time, or ever. Sometimes it takes time. Sometimes it is never received.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Busts are big business, you're right.

First you've got your asset forfeiture- they don't even necessarily have to charge you with anything for that.

Then you've got your kickbacks to the judges and sheriffs from private for-profit prisons that contract with the government- a judge got caught selling hundreds of kids to a for-profit juvie some time back.

Then you've got your prison labor.

Then you've got your restitution requirements- sure they might make you get a job or go back, but suppose they dont- you gotta eat, you gotta get money, and you will- if you go back to crime you'll make plenty for a while, and if you're a criminal you dont want cops looking for you- so you pay. But it's not just a dollar amount- it's repeat business. While you owe them money for fines fees or restitution they've basically got you on probation- its that much easier to keep track of you and to send you back if they want.

We haven't even talked about bail, pawnshops, lawyers, bounty hunters... lots of people's livelihoods depend on people being desperate to comply or contest with the law. And I'm quite sure that the tax revenue they generate is the ONLY way in which local law enforcement wets it beak in those areas.

a reply to: The Vagabond

You are correct.

I believe municipal bonds are another big source of funding.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I wrote "you guys" because you are a LEO. While densely populated areas may need someone to keep the order, that does not necessarily have to be the police.

Can you tell me you have never searched a car over questionable circumstances? I just know of too many times where local police(East Central Florida, I believe that is where you are from too) will make some blanket statement like I smell marijuana, why are your eyes red, or that dirt, debris, and grass on the floor looks suspicious and I need to search the car, ect.. The ONLY reason why a LEO would want to search one's car is to make an easy arrest and possibly seize property via asset forfeiture.

This kind of stuff happens everyday, and you know it happens. I just think you are being dishonest when you say you have not violated anyone rights, if you haven't surely some of your partners have right in front of you.

The State will not get any money out of an indigent thief. The person might do some jail time if caught and cost the state money but the state will not be able to collect restitution from someone that is indigent. This is why the police are not as concerned about some crimes, yet focus their attention on behaviors that should not be criminal in the first place but profitable for the State. As someone once told me, you can't get blood from stone.

As each day passes and as another person is put through the criminal system over bogus charges, more are loosing faith in the police force and legal system.

Repealing the drug laws likely will NOT happen anytime soon, I know what the Sheriff's organizations and Fraternal Orders of Police lobby for. They love the drug laws, and Florida police seem to love locking people up and seizing their property because of the War on Drugs, which I have come the realization it is truly a civil war that is being 'fought' in the US.

Ultimately I think there is epidemic of poor leadership that has infected the police in the US. Most who go to the academy want to do good. However tt seems obvious to me that the primary role of the police is no longer to protect and serve the citizen, it is to protect, serve, and make money for the state.

a reply to: jrod

The police do not ignore certain crimes because there is no money in stopping them, they ignore them because the victims aren't meant to be protected. Some citizens have to be kept safe to give the police money and support- others have to be kept in harms way to give the police a reason to exist.

As we've covered, whether you choose to believe it or not, there is money in busting those who have none for several reasons, the biggest of which is federal subsidy of for-profit law enforcement, followed by seizure of property from offenders and victims alike (when your stolen car is recovered you pay for towing, you pay for impound- you're lucky if you spend 500 dollars just to have the battered remains of your car scrapped), followed by criminal and welfare funds being paid by the criminals to keep the police temporarily off their back. You may be a meth head living out of flop houses- i've known the type- most of the time they beg borrow and steal just to get by, but every once in a while they get a thousand bucks in pocket from some wheeling and dealing or a family member trying to help out- and in many cases they do swat the state with a couple hundred in that case to clear up their bench warrants and borrow a little more time before their next arrest.

They want these people to continue their participation in the criminal economy- that's why we have a catch and release program- so you can sell the feds the same slave 3, 5, maybe 10 times in his life.

a reply to: jrod

I have absolutely never searched a car over questionable circumstances.

You aren't the first to call me a liar on this site.

I can see that I am not wanted here by many, and frankly I am GOD DAMNED tired of being called a liar.


Goodbye

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

If you have not searched a car or a person under questionable circumstances then I applaud you and thank you for respecting the 4th Amendment.

It appears that too many police officers do not respect a person's rights.


There is a problem with the public perception of the police and a divide within the public too. Many still see the police in a positive light and will give them the benefit of doubt most if not all of the time, some are on the fence or at least can see the positive and negative actions the police, and there are many others who do NOT trust the police or anything they say, especially since when the encounter a police officer, their rights are violated, and they are asked tricky incriminating questions.

It is important for "you guys" to chime in occasionally, to get a better understanding of the problem and possibly to come up with working solutions we NEED your honest opinion, besides I do not think I would last long on the Police One boards if I pose too many difficult questions.

originally posted by: The Vagabond


As we've covered, whether you choose to believe it or not, there is money in busting those who have none for several reasons, the biggest of which is federal subsidy of for-profit law enforcement, followed by seizure of property from offenders and victims alike (when your stolen car is recovered you pay for towing, you pay for impound- you're lucky if you spend 500 dollars just to have the battered remains of your car scrapped), followed by criminal and welfare funds being paid by the criminals to keep the police temporarily off their back. You may be a meth head living out of flop houses- i've known the type- most of the time they beg borrow and steal just to get by, but every once in a while they get a thousand bucks in pocket from some wheeling and dealing or a family member trying to help out- and in many cases they do swat the state with a couple hundred in that case to clear up their bench warrants and borrow a little more time before their next arrest.

They want these people to continue their participation in the criminal economy- that's why we have a catch and release program- so you can sell the feds the same slave 3, 5, maybe 10 times in his life.

That is some good insight. I am from Florida and well aware of the slave farms, and other clauses like how violation of misdemeanor probation can often get someone a year and 1 day, just enough to go to the prison farm. It seems like those who have medical issues and can't work(and cost more to house) rarely get the same time.

I do think there is a need to have the occasional high profile arrest, or even low profile arrest to make a community feel safer.

I do understand the police do good, and occasionally do very well to catch bad criminals.

The entire legal system is flawed, it's is not just the police. Too many laws to enforce.