UK one of world's least religious countries

Christianity in the US, being as far right and extreme as it is, is such a massive turn off for people in the UK. Bill O'Reilly alone is enough to turn one's stomach.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
built on our original temples, holy places - like the beautiful henge I live close to, Knowlton Rings which has been defaced by having a small christain church stuffed into the centre of it.

Wow, that's horrible, most of our stone circles in Devon & Cornwall, while having some damage, I'm not aware of any that have been spoiled with a Christian church being claimed inside it.

Me and my friends camp regularly at our favourite circles in the Summer, I find them enchanting and peaceful remote places where I know many thousands of people feasted or shared communal experiences there for thousands of years before me.
I got engaged at Fernworthy Stone Circle many years ago, one of my favourite on Dartmoor:

The circle is remarkably intact with all but 2 stones still in their original places. The circle is thought to date from 4000 years ago, it is 20m in diameter and consists of 27 small stones.
The stone rows and cairns probably came later and surround the site. The circle was excavated by the Dartmoor Exploration Committee in 1897. They found that the interior of the circle was covered in a layer of charcoal suggesting that it had been the scene of very many fires - perhaps funeral pyres or feasts.

Although I don't believe in any gods or religions, I feel at peace when spending time at our Neolithic monuments, and have met some amazing people at them over the years sat by small campfires with a background of drums and acoustic guitars.
Perhaps it is a throwback to our heritage, perhaps I romanticise too much, but either way, they are special places.


*Edit*
Just Googled Knowlton Rings, ah that looks beautiful, and that ruined church was so obviously an authority statement to the Pagans of the day.
Didn't know that was in Dorset, may take a road trip there in the Summer, cheers.

a reply to: chuck258

I must admit I put people who play with rattlesnakes as a religious experience and muslims into the same nut-basket.

Yes we have been forced as a people to suffer mass immigration of muslins and their religious baggage - but I doubt they will ever relate to the psychical relationship with the land and its past here - so they will never really be native to this country - they just don't have the past linkage or mentality. Sadly they appear to be making up the numbers for those who suck up to official religion. But more muslim women are speaking out for themselves and wanting a stronger say in their affairs. Its more the young who get the religious snot job and pose with their shrouds, however once they realise how cheap it is for their husband not to bother to clothe them properly, they realise how suckered they have been forced to become.

Yoju have to remember also that in our parliament and house of lords wet are stuck with the men in frocks b rigade although they seem to be less credible every decade.

a reply to: grainofsand

Hey Grainofsand, I know Fernworthy Stone Circle we use to take our kids there for quiet picnics. Great place to get engaged. These sites do attract some delightful people and as you say, a throwback to our heritage. The good weather here means a picnic is in the offing at Knowlton very soon. We'll raise a glass to your family,.

It is the atmospheric peace that one cannot help connecting to within these sacred places that I love. If you get down to Dorset, Knowlton is north of Poole and absolutely worth a visit for its fantastic atmosphere - you will make of it what you will when looking at the ruined church. You don't IMHO romanticise too much.

a reply to: Shiloh7
Ah cheers Shiloh, just raised a glass to you and yours.
These places from our past are well worth romanticising about, they are historically and (to me) sociologically and emotionally special.
Knowlton reminds me of what the Christian church did with their audacious and unfortunate land claim on Glastonbury Tor, very similar example of just solely showing authority of the church in my mind.
I will definitely visit Knowlton this year...a new place I know only a bit East of Lyme Regis where I do like the odd day or two finding fossils at the beach in the Summer.


...sorry for going well off topic OP

DP

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

All those splendid Cathedrals were built by superstitious fools then?

Nope, they were built by the foolishly superstitious.
...and religion was a controlling force in the days our Cathedrals were built.

Yes, but religion was also the basis for your Constitutional freedoms:

After a lengthy preamble you have point number one from your very own Magna Carta

1)1. In the first place we have granted to God, and by this our present charter confirmed for us and our heirs forever that the English Church shall be free, and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate; and we will that it be thus observed; which is apparent from this that the freedom of elections, which is reckoned most important and very essential to the English Church, we, of our pure and unconstrained will, did grant, and did by our charter confirm and did obtain the ratification of the same from our lord, Pope Innocent III, before the quarrel arose between us and our barons: and this we will observe, and our will is that it be observed in good faith by our heirs forever. We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom, for us and our heirs forever, all the underwritten liberties, to be had and held by them and their heirs, of us and our heirs forever.

www.constitution.org...

The very first freedom they demand is for the church, it is then granted by extension to the people. You don't have to like religion but it gave us much more than stone buildings and the inquisition. It formed the Constitutional basis for government and the moral basis for Western societies from the Middle Ages until perhaps the 20th Century.

originally posted by: SensiblyReckless
Christianity in the US, being as far right and extreme as it is, is such a massive turn off for people in the UK. Bill O'Reilly alone is enough to turn one's stomach.

For every fruitcake on TV there are thousands of ordinary people who are religious but not obnoxious about it. You don't hear about them because they're not on TV. Sure, there's lots of zealots here but they've been dwindling out since the 90's at least. Frankly, it's the mega-churches and prosperity theologians that irk me most, but in general your perception of Christians in the US is skewed by the media.

a reply to: Asktheanimals
Lol, you are obviously still caught up in the romantic idea that the Magna Carta was some kind of document representing the rights of individual people. It was not, it was a compromise deal to appease barons and the very few freemen of the times.
The vast majority of the people were 'villeins' and continued to live in servitude:
British Library

Very few clauses in Magna Carta dealt directly with the villeins — unfree peasants who formed most of the population. They were bound to their lord in a restrictive tie which they were not free to break. They had to spend some of their time cultivating their lord’s land without pay; they were not free to leave their manor; they did not own their goods and possessions; and they owed their lord numerous customary payments. Villeins also fell under the jurisdiction of their lord’s manorial court, without access to the protection of the royal courts.

If you really think that the Magna Carta was anything other than a deal to benefit the church and find compromise between the king and rich men of the day in England then you have clearly not understood the history of my country.

No church or religion invented morality, but if it makes you feel a prouder Christian believing that then go for your life. I find such an opinion ridiculous and rather amusing though.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The problem isn't that my perception is skewed by the media. The problem is that the American public's perception is.

You do have a sort of balance with people like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, though.

originally posted by: bullcat
Religion belongs in ones home and heart, not the streets, not the government, not the country.

It is a personal thing and should remain that.

My sentiments exactly!

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

All the "God bless America" US Presidents come out with at every speech, plus "In God we trust" on their banknotes says much about the religious situation there.
Saying that though, "God save the Queen" is a ridiculous national anthem over here. I have never sung it and never will.
I would be hypocritical for me if I did, an agnostic atheist who supports a republic instead of a constitutional monarchy.

Hopefully another few decades and the continuing decline in religion will see Bishops out of the second chamber in UK government, then we can move on and look at religion as some quaint curiosity from history. Well, Christianity perhaps, but as far as the Muslims, who can say, they are increasing in numbers every year, perhaps they are better at brainwashing their communities than us non-Muslims.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Yes, but religion was also the basis for your Constitutional freedoms:

After a lengthy preamble you have point number one from your very own Magna Carta

They were around for several hundred years before then, primarilly from the Normans and adopted by the Crwon. It wasn't until Henry II had a bit of a tiff with an archbishop that Christian law was forced upon the population to stop the Crown being overthrown in Civil War.

a reply to: grainofsand

The British parliament have a prayer before they sit.

They also do it here and it's always blown my mind. There meant to be making rational & logical decisions based on scientific research and fact, yet they start off with a superstitious ritual. Not to mention it kind of makes a joke of the claim of being a secular country.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa
I know, it's ridiculous isn't it, many local authority councils do it as well, although I'm pleased to say my local authority put an end to such silliness about 20 years ago.
The Church of England is still an integral part of the UK state though and it has annoyed me ever since I was taught about it in politics lessons aged about 12.
The unelected House of Lords has always been something I have wanted overhauling anyway, but the added insult of C of E bishops having voting rights over laws that affect me is something I would enjoy a bit of direct action and civil disobedience over.
Most people are apathetic about it though so I'll have to be content with watching it slowly change as our society matures each generation.

Anyway, the Brits still give to charity, look how much their 'children in need' TV appeal raises.

Makes me love Britain more.

a reply to: grainofsand

I like the Sex Pistols version of God save the Queen. I'll sing that

But yes, you make a very good point there about our national anthem.

I feel like I can't critise Muslims without being branded a racist, so I tend to keep my mouth shut. That's dangerous.

a reply to: SensiblyReckless

Haha, I've got that on 12" vinyl!
Regarding Muslims though, it isn't racist to criticise any religion, just one look at the picture of our resident UK Muslim ATS member tells me he is as white as I am.
...and although I'm against Church of England bishops voting in the House of Lords, I have to say I'd prefer them any day over some Muslim imam, mufti or ayatollah. Ideally no religion in politics, but the men in frocks of the C of E are definitely the lesser of two evils lol.

a reply to: grainofsand

Men in frocks, LOL.

You speak a lot of sense matey. I just wish someone with a similar mindset to you would be in power. For once.