If you could be a spook, would you?

I can only remember cigarette man from the X-Files checking his mail in his dingy apartment, waiting for a publisher to give him the OK on his "Jack Colquick" (spell?) novels.
A powerf man, but miserable.

originally posted by: tadaman
So, um, thoughts?

My first piece of advice is:

Don't worry about 'making the cut'. Intelligence is not about an 'in club' - nor is the work involved with it what you'd see on Bourne Identity.

Sure. I've gotten shot while working with the NSA. Want to know how? I was being escorted by a nimrod Hungarian Army Private (Two Privates I might add - only one was a nimrod) in Budapest to the base's CO - and this guy didn't think his M16A1 needed a damn safety on it. It bounced off his leg a few too many times while carrying it and guess what? I have now have a battle wound scar on my right leg thanks to a bullet that was pulled out of my leg that evening back in 2003.

So think about it this way - inviting everyone who's achieved a certain score or thinks a certain way. Is just bad for business and creates something called group think. Which in some cases - is warranted.

You're familiar with the LSAT and GMAT - right? These are standardized tests for law schools and business schools which ask one simple question: can you think like everyone else in the field? Is this good that everyone always thinks the same in these fields of study? the Ivy Leagues seem to think so. But many western based Universities do not. So who knows?

We don't want that in intelligence services. Look at 9/11 as a great example as to why. It took our country YEARS to recover from that - but we learned a valuable lesson there too - compartmentalization wasn't working - because we'd been hiring the same people.

For involvement with intelligence services, whether it's the NSA, CIA, or one of the MANY hidden agencies I won't name here - generally speaking - the question that arises now is this: What do you have to offer us and what do you think we have to offer you? Part of intelligence is demonstrating you're capable of it yourself instead of being a 'me too' type of person. Even if the intelligence services you have indicated interest in does NOT have what you're suspecting they have, there's the distinct possibility just by announcing your interest you've put yourself on the radar and a place may be found for you in an agency that does.

There's no guarantee of that.

But I saw your response on the other thread.

Now this.

I don't represent any real agency - consider me nothing more than a ghost...

But to that end:

What do you have to offer an intelligence agency - and name one if you have one in mind - besides doubt and insecurity - and what do you think they have to offer you?

Also. Just an FYI. What's posted on the CIA and NSA web sites for job requirements is what's known as a red herring.

www.jobbankusa.com...

Yeah, good luck with that ... thought that since ATS is famous for it's spooks, you were trolling for a job interview/invitation. (Not the negative internet type trolling, the fishing type you know)

I have an interesting reply...I did not realize that I was probably what you could call a "spook" until I was knee-deep and it was too late to say anything.

I shared my story here.

I was in an Army unit that fell under the Army Special Operations Command. I had acquired a skillset in both my personal and professional lives that was desirable to certain units and agencies-- I will admit that today I do work for one of the three-letter agencies, but that is overall quite irrelevant to things that happened when I was much younger.

I attended language training through the DLI and was a quick study, which I believe helped lead to my being routed or corralled (for lack of a better term) into certain assignments. At the time I was just an enlisted guy following orders and doing what he could to get ahead, I did not question things or let my assignments bother me. The people and camaraderie were awesome (we were like family, and still have reunions every couple of years) and I loved learning new things. I had some specialized knowledge from civilian hobbies that caught the attention of someone higher up, and I took it all in stride. I was then trained in the military's way of using those skills, which came as naturally as the languages did. We had civilian-looking people around and we were not even told who they were or what agencies they were from, but they got copies of most of our reports. Some missions in some countries had more of these people than others, and sometimes they seemed to call the shots. On only two or three occasions could I be sure what agency these people were from, otherwise they remained anonymous. Eventually I looked around one day and said, holy crap, look what our mission is, this is what I should have expected, but it never dawned on me before. We were at least sharing tons of info with them, if not quite literally following their orders.

I knew that some guys in my unit were doing things directly with some federal agencies, but I am not sure what, or where they went. I honestly do not know the arrangements, it was something that wasn't discussed, even with two guys I was close to. One guy frequently disappeared and later returned with new toys we hadn't seen before, and was the only person allowed to use them. For what it's worth, he also came back from one of his trips with some highly-unusual body armor that not even my unit had. That has intrigued me ever since that day.

a reply to: universalbri

LOL

Its not insecurity. I just thought that being like "hey" I am freaking awesome! would be a little much.LOL No, wasnt thinking it, though I am glad you came along. I am starting to take a liking to you. LOL

Yes, what I have to offer, I have 100% faith in my instincts and can read people and situations very well, am very good at getting under peoples defences without looking for a kink. People seem to like me, and my enemies seem to keep me around. I may just believe it more than they think otherwise. Charm? no. Honesty. Its noticeable.

What they have to offer me? A purpose to do something that perhaps only some can do. TO choose a way to die that avoids death. Overcoming it. It really is irrelevant. We will be here again.

I know its not about being the smartest. Its not about being the strongest.

Its about being the most WILLING.

my mood, its no coincidence. I am always willing. I feel I have no choice. I really dont know any other way of being, or at least I never offered myself another. It really is all or nothing. Dig deep sort of thing or drown in the shallows.

Its also not about finding the noble war that a warrior ethos demands one search for while questing for honor. Its about committing to your war. I commit.

If I can get a little Sci-fi?, it helps....

Fear is the mind killer. I would like to see a purpose that eradicates fear. For the sake of all sentient life....decree a destiny that is inline with fate, but that is not in fear of it. Like, um, make a reality fitting our creation /self creation. Coming full circle sort of thing. If thats clear enough.

In any event, I really am starting to like you! LOL. You bring sincere smiles and betraying nervous twitching I am the first to notice.

Have a good one.
Hold it down.

a reply to: tadaman

I think that joining any sort of private organization, secret society or covert operation would require specialized training for specific types of people who may show some sort of promise as a member. Just like going to university and passing all of the tests. But more so psychological in nature, depending on the work required. For example, I hear that the elusive 'Skull and Bones' types from Yale University have very elaborate hazing rituals that "fortify" them and encourage them to keep their secrets by virtue of some sort of taboo situation etc. Tantalizing incentives seem to also play a key role in enticing people and boosting morale. Any kind of complex organization would have an almost hierarchical structure where one can "work their way up" the ladder, so to speak. But it is the training and mindset that would be critical to the overall "modus operandi" of said organization. What is it they have to do and why?

Doctors, from what I understand, are trained to check out of their empathy, by and large, so they can focus on the challenging task of treating patients, which can often require detached precision and focus, unencumbered by emotional entanglement with the patients and their friends and family. So in that sense, so-called sociopaths or psychopaths are better equipped to deal with the more intense jobs of the world. Sensitive and intelligent souls have their place, and perhaps can work different types of jobs on a different/lower level, but the really hardcore stuff is set aside for those that can really leave empathy in the backseat.

I am relatively desensitized and logical/rational enough to be able to tolerate a considerable amount of situations that most regular folks cannot, but I would require 3-9 months (or more) of various mental, physical and spiritual rehabilitation and training programs, depending on what the tasks required of me would entail... If I did happen to show some sort of promise of being useful in one way or another, I would probably be so inclined to be a spook - but more so on the intelligence analyst end of things, as opposed to anything specifically violent or destructive at my own hands.

Made that mistake when was young and stupid .. along with had the misfortune of working with the bastards in past .. NEVER again ...

Though there are a very select few who I know from back in the old days that I will sometimes talk to over drinks want nothing more to do with any of the bastards these days ... at least back then they had some ethics unlike todays lot .. for them the universal gesture of greeting and may they all catch an uncurable std ....

a reply to: tadaman

Maybe I'm already a spook,
Maybe I'm not,

Perhaps I'm so incredibly top secret,
I don't even know about it yet..

Nor would you,
Or them for that matter.

Life it seems,
Is full of Insanity..

Its a Sickness,
And It needs to be cleansed.


Sign me up

Muzz

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: universalbri

LOL

Its not insecurity. I just thought that being like "hey" I am freaking awesome! would be a little much.LOL No, wasnt thinking it, though I am glad you came along. I am starting to take a liking to you. LOL

Yes, what I have to offer, I have 100% faith in my instincts and can read people and situations very well, am very good at getting under peoples defences without looking for a kink. People seem to like me, and my enemies seem to keep me around. I may just believe it more than they think otherwise. Charm? no. Honesty. Its noticeable.

What they have to offer me? A purpose to do something that perhaps only some can do. TO choose a way to die that avoids death. Overcoming it. It really is irrelevant. We will be here again.

I know its not about being the smartest. Its not about being the strongest.

Its about being the most WILLING.

my mood, its no coincidence. I am always willing. I feel I have no choice. I really dont know any other way of being, or at least I never offered myself another. It really is all or nothing. Dig deep sort of thing or drown in the shallows.

Its also not about finding the noble war that a warrior ethos demands one search for while questing for honor. Its about committing to your war. I commit.

If I can get a little Sci-fi?, it helps....

Fear is the mind killer. I would like to see a purpose that eradicates fear. For the sake of all sentient life....decree a destiny that is inline with fate, but that is not in fear of it. Like, um, make a reality fitting our creation /self creation. Coming full circle sort of thing. If thats clear enough.

In any event, I really am starting to like you! LOL. You bring sincere smiles and betraying nervous twitching I am the first to notice.

Have a good one.
Hold it down.

lol. keep those nervous twitches down to a dull roar, willya?

California is getting butterfly ripple effect Earthquakes in Northern California thanks to you!

Have you seen thinkgeek.com? One of my favorite accessories for the corporate world is the annoy-a-tron, here:
www.thinkgeek.com...

Keep in mind everyone has a different journey, so respect death as a concept even though it may not work for us.

And keep smiling, my friend.

On a final note. Being involved with any agency is about war avoidance.

Sign up for the military who may tap you for intelligence - I am not sure how they're selecting nowadays - hopefully they're not still standardizing - if you want to go to war.

a reply to: universalbri

Dont know ANYTHING about war. From what I hear it sucks.



Play it loud mofos

My war.....

Have a good one.

originally posted by: antar
www.jobbankusa.com...

Yeah, good luck with that ... thought that since ATS is famous for it's spooks, you were trolling for a job interview/invitation. (Not the negative internet type trolling, the fishing type you know)

lol. yeah. because you know how the intelligence agencies love posting 'help wanted' ads in the local newspapers, right?

I can see it now - Using your logic - here's what we'd see as a posting by Cheyenne Mountain:
"Wanted. Five programmers experienced in a variety of languages. Two theoretical physicists experienced in subatomic and theoretical physics and troubleshooting. An organic chemist, a biochemist, a geographer, and cartographer - and an MBA with large scale project work across large time scaled domains.

Erhem.. what happened, did your Stargate break down, or is that a wormhole in your pocket?

Seriously. Did ya ever think that intelligence agencies aint exactly gonna be publishing what they want or need in ANY sources online and off because they know that that information can be reverse engineered to find - with a high degree of probability - what they are likely working on?

Smoke and mirrors, baby. Smoke and mirrors.

a reply to: universalbri

Well it is an interesting thread topic and I have often wondered if certain posts were geared toward attracting/kissing fanny to the 3 letter organizations hoping to find infiltrators that hang out and are well know online in discussion communities for recruitment.

I would bet that it has happened.

As civilians we don't know the variables of their choices they must make ,to achive results they are commanded to obtain.
To us out here it looks NIGHTMARISH.but then again you have the same thing with soldiering.
Pragmatic awful choices are made to insure success.
Perhaps,like a soldier their morals MUST be tempered like our feelings in order to survive in such an environment as the above poster suggests.
I couldn't accept that too well as I am all about the honor thing, so no I wouldn't try.
That doesn't mean they aren't needed however. I just don't have enough info to clearly define them.
Instinct says not to trust them when they are in play AS A soldier because of their mandates.

a reply to: universalbri

What about the the SAD types?
I thought we contracted out all the wet work to the SAS anyway, lately , after Clinton gutted Humint by limiting assets to non felons.

Vast majority of the work is really boring analysis stuff. Field work can be very nerve–racking because you tend to work around some really incompetent people at times, and unlike movies you die rather easily when the # hits the fan...

ambiguous content …….
a reply to: tadaman

a reply to: tadaman

If YOU did want to be then (at least in the UK) its a very bad idea to state you want to be or will be publicly as that is a sure quick way to get your application denied

a reply to: crazyewok

Yeah I wasnt looking for a job. LOL or candidates for others. I was just curious if most people asked themselves the "could I, would I" question.

We are quick to judge intelligence services but arent honest about the subject to ourselves. I think MOST would be those people they criticize in a heartbeat if COULD.

Its not like there is any illusion as to what that world is about. Its not like law enforcement. SO I dont get what people expect or what they even know about themselves ultimately. Most people who ever knocked on intelligence services never put themselves in their shoes. Myself included.

I really dont think I would be recommendable for that lie of work. I would be highly expedible. I guess its not about being able to do the work. I just know I would end up dead or in a VERY bad place. I wouldnt make it to retirement.

I would be the guy that is made to think he is "trained" and ends up getting killed or used as a patsey because they just trained me about as much as a monkey would be to push a button. LOL

If I had family in it, friends, someone I could trust slightly, whatever, I would probably have joined early on in life. My father pretty much made sure to scare the crap out of me when I was a kid about ever joining the armed forces and the intelligence services. We fought about it allot. He is not against them, just against me being used like cattle. (his words). I am too loyal to my father to betray his wishes, I am a little old fashioned.

a reply to: tadaman

I get the impression that 99% of the work is office based and more pouring over facebook profiles and emails than tuxedos, guns and exotic locations.

At the end of the day sure there may have been some overstep at least in the USA but the jobs needs to be done and in this day and age defense of our country's defense lay just as much with these agency's than with the armed forces a $200 million F-35 is not going to stop a suicide bomber.

I have quit a bit of respect for MI5 and special branch in the UK. 10 year and only 2 terrorist attacks when half the world hates us is a pretty good track record.

I wouldn't mind retiring in the Ft. Meyers/Naples area! ;-)

I'm one of those types that likes to "play it forward" and think two or three steps ahead. I think I'd make a good intelligence officer. People generally like me, and I seem to find a way to fit in with any group of people. The key is finding something in common with the people your thrown in with. Once you find one thing you have in common, you can build relationships from there. Also, people tend to not notice me. I can't tell you how many sticky situations I've been in where I've practically been invisible to others for some strange reason. It must be my fox medicine keeping me safe.

I'm pretty good at putting pieces of information together too -- There's a lot of information out there, and if you know where to look...