Activists Trying to Stop Billion Dollar development in Grand Canyon

a reply to: InTheLight

Their choice of location is too controversial.

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: InTheLight

Their choice of location is too controversial.

From the little I heard during their committee meeting, they are planning to avoid sensitive and sacred areas, and designing walkways to keep (not allowing) people to stray onto the land.

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

a reply to: Sublimecraft
The Navajo and Lakota tribes are and have been struggling to survive because of poverty.
They are away from good casinos locations compared to others who are located close to population centers. Their too far to drive to.
This decision is made out of long suffering people and the chief made a proposal to help the economic conditions. If Obama would help struggling tribes more, their economic conditions would improve and Chiefs would not make one-option decisions.

Obama received 95% of their votes in 2008, 2012.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

So spiritual that they are building a cesspit of consumerism, greed, and excess? And turning this "sacred place" into another cheap Mc Tourist trap? Yeah...I sure as hell would love a McDo0nalds, IMAX, and RV park right on top of my holy place.

I could care less if their medicine men are cool with it. Sounds like they sold out too.

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

So spiritual that they are building a cesspit of consumerism, greed, and excess? And turning this "sacred place" into another cheap Mc Tourist trap? Yeah...I sure as hell would love a McDo0nalds, IMAX, and RV park right on top of my holy place.

I could care less if their medicine men are cool with it. Sounds like they sold out too.

It will remain to be seen.

originally posted by: Metallicus
The Grand Canyon is like a spiritual gift to all that visit her. There is no way we need to pollute her with grumpy, entitled tourists and obnoxious children buying the latest widget. Leave a few sacred places for our children and grand children.

America has a bad habit of catering to the lowest common denominator.

Anyone who can't appreciate the Grand Canyon as is doesn't deserve it. We shouldn't cater to the idiot class. If you are so out of touch with nature, that you need a #in mall in the grand Canyon, you shouldn't be allowed to make any decisions.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

You're assuming these guys are impervious to corruption. I lived in New Mexico, we where surrounded by natives, they are no different than the rest of us. The same forces that make us go against our own interests, effect them. Natives can be psychopaths too. Some don't give a #. The spiritual stuff is a nice stereotype to have, but they are as human as the rest of us. Medicine men could be as corrupt as popes.

I just have to lol a little here. So the grand canyon is a national park and the stewards of it (our government) is looking to sell portions of it for commercial purposes (and the tax revenue that will come from it, don't forget that). Meanwhile, the whole purpose of giving the government "control" of the land was to prevent someone from buying it up and turning it into a commercial area. Oh the irony.

The only difference between a national park becoming a commercial enterprise and a private individual making it into a private enterprise is funding source. Either tax payers are on the hook for funding or the individual. Doesn't it kind of make you understand why libertarians say there should be no "national parks"?

I'm under the impression the canyon is huge.. what sort of impact can a small blip Of a structure make on a huge expanse anyway..
to be honest as long as it done the way it is proposed I have no problem with it.
It will generate much needed money for America and will also give people an opportunity to see the amazing and beautiful place up close and personal..

If the native people are also cool with it then I sat why not?

a reply to: Misterlondon

I'm trying to think of a river near a development that didn't eventually get polluted by said development.

Maybe I've had bad luck but... I haven't thought of any.

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

originally posted by: InTheLight
So, no one here has any faith in the native people to do everything in their power to build responsibly with respect to sacred lands and minimizing all types of pollution?

Nope. The fact that they are even building it at all where they are is irresponsible.

Not to mention that Native Americans are still classed as humans last time I checked, and humans can't be trusted regardless their ethnic background.

If their medicine men are Okay with it, then I have no reservations about them proceeding. You see, I visit my friend in her native sacred land, and there is no way any spiritual people can simply disregard it's power.

You're assuming these guys are impervious to corruption. I lived in New Mexico, we where surrounded by natives, they are no different than the rest of us. The same forces that make us go against our own interests, effect them. Natives can be psychopaths too. Some don't give a #. The spiritual stuff is a nice stereotype to have, but they are as human as the rest of us. Medicine men could be as corrupt as popes.

And you are assuming that they lend themselves to corruption, whereas when listening to their intended plans during a committee meeting, I realized that they are planning to build the tram and walkways into the canyon, in such a way as to have almost no impact on the land and the sacred areas after it is built. During the build, there may be some impact, but I am sure they will attempt to minimize any detrimental effects. Whereas the Hopi, take kayakers and hikers into their sacred areas on the bottom of the canyon, so are you telling me there is no impact to the land with all those people hiking and trampling the land?

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: lostbook

I see very little difference between a religious outfit blowing up a heritage-listed national monument verses a corporate outfit wanting to construct a Walmart, 3-storey Maccas (with elevators and escalators), cafes, restaurants, and very expensive bar on top off what I consider one of the most awe-inspiring pieces of geography on the planet.

Been here for a lot longer than "corporations" and guaranteed to be here well after their demise.

Maybe I'll just go and whack a great big floating Casino / Hotel / Mall / never have to leave the bloody joint thing over the Great Barrier Reef - F#%@ what commoners think.

Line a few politicians pockets and your building licence will be ready for collection Monday morning from council offices - thank-you for your generous donation.

If the TTIP becomes a reality, the corporations will be suing our governments for lost potential profits if it tries to restrict them from expanding their businesses into un-exploited tourist spots, or anywhere they want whenever they want, and depriving them of the resulting profits.

TTIP is a promotion for corporations to government status (but without the title), and a demotion for government. And since there are so many law-making politicians whose decisions regarding the interests of the nation would conflict with or adversely affect their private financial interests, and vice-versa, the TTIP stands a good chance of being unleashed.

If you put the lunatics in charge of the asylum, you get TTIP.

this is the worst idea ever! some places should be left un touched by commercialism and the grand canyon is definatly one of those places! imagine a huge beige square in the midle of it taking away from all the beauty.

there should be laws to prevent things like this from ever happening.

originally posted by: JourneymanWelder
this is the worst idea ever! some places should be left un touched by commercialism and the grand canyon is definatly one of those places! imagine a huge beige square in the midle of it taking away from all the beauty.

there should be laws to prevent things like this from ever happening.

Have a look at their master plan. All builidings and facilities will be on the top at the rim, there will be a walkway and a tram heading down into the canyon, where no persons will be allowed to wander off and trample the ground.

grandcanyonescalade.com...

grandcanyonescalade.com...

The Escalade Project will desecrate Navajo Sacred Sites. FALSE. Under the terms of the proposed legislation the Navajo Nation grants Confluence Partners the right to contract for cultural and environmental studies and engineering necessary to comply with Environmental Review Regulations of the NN Business Leasing Regulations. This includes compliance with the Navajo Nation Cultural Resource Protection Act (NNC § 1001), Navajo Nation Policy to Protect Traditional Cultural Properties (NNHPD Policy), and NN Cultural Resource Protection Act (19 NNC Sec. 1001, et seq.) among others. These studies will be submitted to the Navajo Nation department of Cultural Preservation for review, comment, and, if everything is done properly, approval. If Sacred Sites will or would be desecrated, the project won’t go forward. This is how all projects on the Navajo Nation are handled.

if you destroy something man made it is vandalism while destroying something natural is progress.

originally posted by: DrakeINFERNO
if you destroy something man made it is vandalism while destroying something natural is progress.

They are not destroying anything, they are progressing economically for their people, as they see fit and who all have a vote.

a reply to: InTheLight

sticking a giant ugly mall attracting fat litterbugs to a natural wonder of the world isn't destroying it?

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

I believe the Navajo will learn and build upon the white man's mistakes and remedial measures.

www.nps.gov...