Is there evidence that Jesus Christ existed? Yes, there is.

a reply to: peter vlar

Please cite a contemporary source that provides evidence of Christ and his supernatural abilities and I will promptly apologize and admit my error in refusing to acknowledge your lord and savior, true son of god, magician of Judea.

Your request is impossible and you well know it.
You don't want evidence. You want proof under the guise of evidence whether contemporary or not. Fact is not necessarily contemporary and you well know that also. The NT is contemporary evidence in the theological realm but not of your acceptance in your secular world. The two can never be compatible.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ChesterJohn

More likely they are a christian cult if we dare put them in that group.

ALL christian faiths are cults.

Of course they are!



(From Wikipedia)

a reply to: JDmOKI

Insulting.

I am not an athiest, athiests exist only due to a flawed train of thought - You cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, therefore athiests are involved in a belief system no more or less valid than any other religion. It is unimpressive and uninteresting. To be an athiest is to be intellectually corrupt, and to reveal yourself as a shallow in thought and personal consideration.

Furthermore - learn to do research before you start trying to understand anything the Romans wrote or did. You need to know Greek and Latin, and better-yet, know some Coptic and Aramaic.

Christos just means 'anointed one', and is basically meaningless in the context of the 'Christ' you need so badly to be proven as real.

I don't care or need my religion or spiritual truths to be proven anywhere but in my heart and soul. Your reason for needing 'proof' is corrupt because it suggests, strongly, that you want to be able to 'prove' this truth in order to denounce and condemn other beliefs - an incredibly awful, anglo-centric, painfully mean and aggressive cultural bias.

As far as going through the effort to actually argue you down with facts and figures, I'm not idiot enough to believe that would even work, or prove anything, especially in this environment. This is amateur hour - and I'm not talking about what they teach you in college or whatever, I'm talking about the quality of your research. You don't deserve this podium for your thoughts.

The Egyptians saw Osiris, The Greeks saw Dionyssus - Talk about them like they were real people, passing laws and living life, performing miracles and rising from the dead. Obviously because they are mentioned in documents, themust be real too. Prestor John? How about the kings of Atlantis?

a reply to: Answer

The really sad thing is that you don't realize you use it as often as the religious...

Jaden

originally posted by: thektotheg
Christians are so pretentious. It's almost admirable, given that their savior never actually existed.

This type of language is exactly why I try to avoid threads like this and find is so hard to have a conversation. All of you make such claims that cannot be proven and then claim the other side is ignorant or delusional its like arguing to a Christian that the world is older then 6000 years, same type of hypocrisy. You cannot have a conversation when the other side throws insults at the other or posts info as if it is universally accepted fact, which neither side of the argument is unable to provide

The tone of this post speak volumes to the amount of respect we have when having a conversation about anything religious especially Christian.

I get attacked for assuming that Jesus died around 26-35 AD since Pontius Pilate was a known prefect in Judea during that time, Is that not a valid assumption? but then I'm told that I'm wrong because Jesus never existed and peoples hypothesis are seen a 100% fact

a reply to: JDmOKI

I get attacked for assuming that Jesus died around 26-35 AD since Pontius Pilate was a known prefect in Judea during that time, Is that not a valid assumption?

You haven't been attacked. Your "assumptive" reasoning has been questioned.

Tacitus was forged by the Vatican just like Josephus. Regardless, proving that the person Jesus, the character spoken of in the Bible, actually lived is not the same thing as establishing, based on fact, the truth of Christianity or the divinity of the character mentioned.

You can start here:

www.tertullian.org...

What you will not find, anywhere outside of the Bible, are "reliable" sources validating the "miracles" Jesus has been given credit for, with tangible evidence to substantiate those claims.

a reply to: Herolotus

I'm not sure what you're referencing since I don't think i replied to any of your posts, unless you're referring to my posts to other members. nor did I use any biblical references....

Also, you don't know what my field of study is or any of my credentials

a reply to: windword

This whole thread is based on "assumptive" reasoning. If your "Facts" are so widely known they will come to light and Jesus will be proven as a myth and Christianity will die. Until that day everything is pure speculation and even Jesusneverexisted.com

Maybe I should make a website and source it whyjesusisreal.com and see if people see my source as neutral

a reply to: JDmOKI

You are perfectly welcome to create a website called whyjesusisreal.com to archive all the research that's been done, so that online debaters don't have to "reinvent the wheel" every time they want to go look up some citation or list, etc.

Then, hopefully, when its used as a citation source by believers, people will debate the material, not the website that archived it!

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The liability of any "FAITH" is that the requirements of fact supporting its articles are considered to be extraneous by those possessing that 'Faith'. It is useful to know that Mohammed existed. It doesn't make him a 'Prophet'. It does make him a historical figure.
Same goes for Christ. He existed and to my agnostic mind, so what?
When the Caesars declared themselves to be gods, they had the actual ability to project power within their realm. No fanciful BS about miracles. Yet we now 'feel' that they were not gods but instead megalomaniacs propped up by a huge resource (self-serving) base.
If your imagined representative of god, Jesus, was actually capable of the cited 'proofs' of his divinity, do you think that he would have been obscure? Do you not think that the world would have been taken by a storm of fully justified knowledge? Do you think that it would have taken decades, centuries for his 'word' to have been firmly rooted?
Your delight in finding small details that verify the mere existence of your Christ are verification he wasn't much of anything other than a philosophizer who was tossed aside by TPTW (the powers that were) when he became inconvenient.

Grow up and recognize that if there is a god and he wants you to know that, there will be no mistaking his presence. If he doesn't want or care that you know, you'll be right here and agnostic.

a reply to: windword

I was making a point about your source since is blatantly not neutral and I'm sure people with counter information don't post on that website since it obviously leaning towards one side of the argument.

Jesus might be made up but I'm arguing your assumed facts and challenging them

a reply to: JDmOKI

I've been researching the historicity of Jesus Christ since the 1970s! (Grew up in a Pentecostal household)... "His" link to Egyptian mythology, Greek mythos, eastern mythos. Swoon theory and sightings of Issa in India and Tibet.......His possible marriage to Mary Magdeline and their French legacy! Roswell Chapel, blah blah blah!

I'm a seeker, just like you, except I've decided to look outside of the Bible for understanding, and outside of religion for enlightenment.

a reply to: JDmOKI

f your "Facts" are so widely known they will come to light and Jesus will be proven as a myth and Christianity will die.

We're working on it.
Human progress is a painfully slow process.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse


Oh yes the rehashing of a fable time and time again makes it that more genuine. You might as well chase unicorns and mermaids you might have better results.

a reply to: DarthFazer

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So in order from humanity to progress you have to destroy Christianity? Does the message of Jesus really hold back humans? The religion maybe... but does the message?

a reply to: JDmOKI

So in order from humanity to progress you have to destroy Christianity?

Well, you have to expose the fabrications, sensationalism, absurdities, lies, fraud and so forth.

Does the message of Jesus really hold back humans?

No, not at all.
(ETA: Depending on how the message is interpreted and delivered! People who say he talked about hell-fire, brimstone, worthlessness, and corruption would not interpret it that way. They would only SHAME and JUDGE everyone else.)

The recorded "message of Jesus" is the same as it was for many other, previous cultures, from many previous spiritual leaders:

Treat Other People The Way You Want To Be Treated.


That is ALL IT IS, and that is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

The religion maybe... but does the message?

Again, no.

The "religion", YES. The message? Nope! It's fine and dandy.

It's just a crying shame that so many don the mantle of "Christianity" and then proceed to oppress, fight, bomb, restrict, judge, threaten, scare, and condemn those who don't agree. Telling people they will "burn in hell" is ridiculous, and it is mental/psychological/emotional ABUSE.


The problem is that lots and lots of self-professed "Christians" don't seem to realize what the message is.

originally posted by: Herolotus
a reply to: JDmOKI

Insulting.

I am not an athiest, athiests exist only due to a flawed train of thought - You cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, therefore athiests are involved in a belief system no more or less valid than any other religion. It is unimpressive and uninteresting. To be an athiest is to be intellectually corrupt, and to reveal yourself as a shallow in thought and personal consideration.

Furthermore - learn to do research before you start trying to understand anything the Romans wrote or did. You need to know Greek and Latin, and better-yet, know some Coptic and Aramaic.

Christos just means 'anointed one', and is basically meaningless in the context of the 'Christ' you need so badly to be proven as real.

I don't care or need my religion or spiritual truths to be proven anywhere but in my heart and soul. Your reason for needing 'proof' is corrupt because it suggests, strongly, that you want to be able to 'prove' this truth in order to denounce and condemn other beliefs - an incredibly awful, anglo-centric, painfully mean and aggressive cultural bias.

As far as going through the effort to actually argue you down with facts and figures, I'm not idiot enough to believe that would even work, or prove anything, especially in this environment. This is amateur hour - and I'm not talking about what they teach you in college or whatever, I'm talking about the quality of your research. You don't deserve this podium for your thoughts.

The Egyptians saw Osiris, The Greeks saw Dionyssus - Talk about them like they were real people, passing laws and living life, performing miracles and rising from the dead. Obviously because they are mentioned in documents, themust be real too. Prestor John? How about the kings of Atlantis?

Atheists believe there is no EVIDENCE for a God, not that the concept of a god is impossible. As well as, that all the anchient religions have been debunked.


Your right atheists don't know there is no "creator" as you said there is no way to prove such a claim.


However if Jesus comes back tommarrow with proof he is the some of God, every atheist on the planet will convert instantly.

There are even plenty of atheists who believe that the universe is a computer program (which would require a programmer) or that life on earth was seeded by intellient aliens.


Atheism is more of a rejection of the nearly completely debunked religious myths. As well as a requirement for proof of outlandish claims rather then faith.

They are agnostics that that see no proof of the supernatural. Nothing more.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: JDmOKI

I've been researching the historicity of Jesus Christ since the 1970s! (Grew up in a Pentecostal household)... "His" link to Egyptian mythology, Greek mythos, eastern mythos. Swoon theory and sightings of Issa in India and Tibet.......His possible marriage to Mary Magdeline and their French legacy! Roswell Chapel, blah blah blah!

I'm a seeker, just like you, except I've decided to look outside of the Bible for understanding, and outside of religion for enlightenment.

And prob found more enlightenment in a few hours then most preachers will in a life time.


I think almost all american atheists/agnostics have the same story. I know I do.



Was raised southern baptist. In my late teens got really into unexplained events and religion. Looked everywhere I could find information and couldn't believe how far from actual history the biblical stories were.


With an open mind it's obviously just silly. .....