Just because I don't buy the current "global warming" theory, does NOT mean I support pollution!!

originally posted by: mc_squared
a reply to: Sremmos80

Lol just posted that same cartoon here.

Amazing how this really simple point is so lost on some people.

Except that in your cartoon, they have completely trivialized what people consider a "better world". Everyone has a different definition of what it is, and a different idea and projection of how the entire human race will have to arrive there... to this so called "better world". A better world to some is more taxes, which some people don't see as a better world when our taxes are already misappropriated. You'll never overcome that or those differences in thinking, and science won't help that either.

For that reason alone, you are always going to have divisiveness, which will always descend into disagreement and conflict, before finally losing sight of the problem in the first place.

Time will tell.

~Namaste

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Really? Because you all (other countries) never lie with their science to their people? Their science is not bought by any government?

Good luck with that theory son

a reply to: chiefsmom

Let's face one fact in all this. Pollition is bad and needs to stop now.

Anything else as far as mother earth? We have no idea

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: chiefsmom
Sorry but no amount of "I'm a really nice person who cares about the environment but thinks all environmental science is bunkum" can possible be sincere.

Let me guess , you live in the US. If so then like a lot of US folks you forget that you are merely a small fraction of the whole world. There are considerably more non US climate scientists that US ones. The funding of science outside the US is different and thus the old "because they are funded by XYZ they are lying" and thus dismissed is naive BS.

Melting glaciers - natural
Melting icecaps - natural
Ocean acidification - natural
Odd hot weather - natural
Odd cold weather - natural
Odd dry weather - natural
Odd wet weather - natural
Pole migration of flora -natural
Pole migration of fauna - natural

all "natural" in the last 50 years, yeah right!

Am I annoyed by this, too damn right. why the need to continue with this line of argument? The people who can implement change do not want to you have won. Now live with the above list and feel goooooood!.

Well, what I don't hear enough about, when it comes to the reasons for climate change, or global warming, or whatever they are gonna call it next, is the impact of the nearly world wide effects of weather modification conducted by many countries. Why aren't people asking more about this?

Who's to say that the f'd up climate we have today isn't coming from such activities. It's the perfect setup for TPTB to do all the nasty stuff and them blame it all on the people...and then get to rake in millions or billions in Carbon Credits etc...

I want a clean Earth too.

Also, equally strange....Not much comment from pro climate people on WHY our whole solar system is heating up. There are many reports and studies showing the ice caps and such are melting on other planets in our galaxy...not just Earth.
Sorry, don't have time to post links but it's an easy search if interested.

Not to mention I've read some articles about how the floor of the ocean is heating up too...as in..'what's going on in the Earths core? Again, google if interested.

Oh, one more thing....to rant....Is that there are many, many inventions and discoveries that prove free energy is here already...the patents are either bought, shelved or never brought to light. Not to mention several discoveries about how to run automobiles off of water. But NO, can't do that, it would collapse our monetary system not to drill oil and sell it.

So, if the governments of the world want everyone to get on board, then they need to drop the hypocrisy, make changes in our use of energy, deleverage the powers in the fossil fuel industry, and start bringing to the market the cheap alternative energies that are already discovered.

But I digress... It's a catch 22 really...have clean energy at the expense of collapsing the whole monetary system of the world...How do you make that transition?

originally posted by: chiefsmom
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I believe the earth itself causes most of the changes.

For instance: the changing of the jet stream( I think that is the one I'm looking for, but it will do.)
How would pollution change that, say as easily, as an earthquake, and the moving of a plate? How do we know that even a millimeter movement, doesn't have massive effects on currents and the like?

Basically, that we do not know how little shifts and changes occurring naturally on earth, can have large scale effects on the weather.

(and please forgive my incorrect by)

I agree with you totally. Thanks for starting this thread! I am just like you in that I believe global warming is part of a natural cycle of the earth, and I think it is important to have clean air, water, etc.

I came to the conclusion that "climate change" is a natural (not man made) cycle a long time ago

Ice core samples in the arctic and antarctic
have clearly shown great times of cooling and warming,
also geological evidence is quite clear
that there have been times of cooling and warming much more
dramatic than we see today.
These times of very dramatic climate change (warming and cooling)
happened long before man was on the scene,
and before man could do more than build a little fire to keep warm.
Therefore, warming and cooling are natural,
normal "life cycles" that the earth goes through, regardless of if mankind is absent,
huddled in caves, or burning a fire in a tent, or driving cars.

As for clean air, water, etc.
In my lifetime alone I have seen the air quality improve dramatically
(even though youngsters don't believe it). The air quality problem was man made and was so bad in the past that there were air quality ratings and alerts that were in the news often, sometimes daily in many areas of the US and I am so glad that the air is so much cleaner now.

The water too is much much cleaner then in my youth
(again I find youngsters don't believe this either). In my youth it wasn't unusual for beaches and lakes to be closed to swimming for pollution quite often and it was nationwide. Now one rarely hears of beaches or lakes or rivers closed to swimming for pollution. I am grateful for this improvement also.

What has happened is that the "global warming"
crowd have become bullies
who think that everyone should follow their line of thinking/believing
or literally be imprisoned or die
because to think differently they see as a threat to humanity.

I see their view of believe as we do or go to jail or die as the real threat to humanity.

ecowatch.com...
www.climatedepot.com... art-punishing-them-now/
gawker.com...

a reply to: diggindirt

Finally, someone who not only remembers how bad the US was polluted before, but someone who won't make fun of me for saying that the US is much more environmentally cleaner. Due to people like you! Thank you for all you did!

You probably remember the global cooling scare, the coming ice age scare too. When the "scientists" changed suddenly from global cooling to global warming, I knew that something was wrong. That was the beginning of my skepticism of "global warming" while still wanting cleaner air, water, etc. I see the global cooling/warming, whatever as a big scam on the people so that the elite can collect "carbon credits" from the little people to get even richer.

If the "global warming" crowd were really serious, they'd be going after China, the worlds biggest polluter, but no, they leave China alone. Hypocrites!

originally posted by: Metallicus
Just because we don't agree about the reason to clean up pollution doesn't mean we shouldn't clean it up. Who cares about 'global warming' if we all agree that pollution is bad? My only caveat is that the corporations that make the mess be financially responsible for cleaning it up...not us little people.

If only those saying we needed taxes to fix it would have spent the money wisely and not told lies to get the money my profession of Environmental Science would not be lampooned by all sorts of people worldwide.

Granny you always make the most sense on various subjects even above Phage. There was one creek in Chattanooga TN, the "Chattanooga creek" that was so bad it was declared, rightfully I might add, the most polluted waterway in the world in the 60's. Now fish live in it and the industry though slow to come around thanks to good rules by EPA are on board. They want their kids to be able to play in that creek too. Nearby Copper Hill TN was so bad that NASA had pictures of it to help them know where they were at over the US while in Orbit. Yep if you are wondering, that is clean now too and it was so before they closed the place down to move it to S. America. In the Great Lakes area the water was so polluted that it was toxic with beaches declared unsafe based on pollution alone. Cities all over the US have been putting sewage into the streams that once that processes were analyzed and modified we were able to clean the sewage to the point that aquatic life came back to the area and we are all better for it. But don't let that stop those who want to tell us CO2 that we breathe out also is a poison to the Earth. The agenda is to use environmental crisis to gain more power. I recall Henry Kissinger and members of the Trilateralist Commission making those statements in the 70's and 80's and look what is occurring regarding the obfuscation of truth over what really is driving the Cycles of the Earth that you pointed out.. Touche'

a reply to: grandmakdw

Um what can the people in the US do about China??

How does that make any sense...
No one gives them a free pass, it is well known the damage they do but outside of the Chinese doing something about it l, not much can be done

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: grandmakdw

Um what can the people in the US do about China??

How does that make any sense...
No one gives them a free pass, it is well known the damage they do but outside of the Chinese doing something about it l, not much can be done

Well Al Gore and the Clinton's do give China a pass because they get so much money from them. Don't you think?


South America and other lands get a pass too as are those that are anything but the Westernized societies. Double standard is the rule of this day. If not those places would not be able to compete with the superior products made by a people who are free, to a certain degree as we are. NOT the subject of this OP I know, but think back to the Russian farmers under Communist rule,who basically by not being free anymore and had no real incentive, caused a great suffering of the masses. They were not producing as they were when they felt free. This oppression of the business here while China gets a pass is a sure fire way to ruin the economy of the "target'' country. A major theme in that 10 plank manifesto. I can't help but wonder why you guys have not caught on to this? You seem sensible in your arguments to me. Solid points though repeated from those that would use as you may recall I feel is happening.

I can explain that to you OP. The global warming/climate change/man-bear-pig group is predominately left, liberal or progressive. The left has always had a "just agree with us" mentality. You are not permitted to agree with some of it, and disagree with some of it, or have an opinion slightly differing. You see...they have a plan that if you don't simply and 100% agree with what they are selling...you are the enemy. While most people can compromise...the left can't or won't.

So, if you (as it sounds you are) someone with their own mind that you actually like using, you won't simply adopt their agenda and are therefore an enemy.

a reply to: Justoneman

Al gore and the Clintons don't speak for everyone.

This stance that since other countries do bad that america shouldn't do anything is laughable at best.

Or that some how the crowd that is for the idea of climate change being more then natural just some how give those countries a pass is willfully ignorant.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Justoneman

Al gore and the Clintons don't speak for everyone.

This stance that since other countries do bad that america shouldn't do anything is laughable at best.

Or that some how the crowd that is for the idea of climate change being more then natural just some how give those countries a pass is willfully ignorant.

Maybe not but the media gives them the bully pulpit on this matter and throw in Bill Nye without allowing them to debate the IPCC scientists who disagree with the summary of the data by the leaders of the IPCC.

double post

a reply to: chiefsmom

Excellent rant! I agree. Just because we don't buy into pseudoscience that's been proven to be based on lies, that doesn't mean we want to screw everything up.

I don't buy into global warming, and I have always been careful and aware regarding pollution and the like. As children, when camping, we were taught to leave the campsite cleaner than we found it. We actually sent time the first day collecting little bits of debris that had been left, scouring the ground to locate them all. I do the same as an adult. We have even cleaned up areas near walking trails, that people trashed. It's unreal how many people toss stuff down and don't seem to care. When we have purchased cans, the whole family has been careful to cut the plastic holders, so no loops remain to endanger wild birds. My kids are taught not to litter, and to have no respect for people that do. I believe businesses need to be very careful about any pollutants, and have safe methods of disposal. I don't think screaming at one country about waste, while excusing others who are guilty of far more serious violations, is a move to help the environment. It's political. It's all about politics, money, and control.

a reply to: Justoneman

Has biil denied any debate?

Who is not allowing it happen?

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Great post me too and i have to set the example i am a real Environmental Scientist!

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Justoneman

Has biil denied any debate?

Who is not allowing it happen?

Well yea. The Scientist like the ones in Huntsville on the IPCC for one. And Dr Gray for another.

The media will not have any of these guys in the same room with the liars and hid AL's testimony to Congress that you can find here:

www.youtube.com...

Well you do need to see it all but i forget just when AL comes in but it is early.

The Earth is definitely going through some changes and humans aren't doing enough to prepare for it. The reality is that plastic is polluting the ocean. Reefs are dying. Ecosystems are dying.
The earth is not producing enough rain in California where the majority of US food comes from. Glaciers are receding. Animals are continuing to go extinct.
Humans are losing morals becoming more independent and "free-thinking" when in reality they are just looking for excuses to play out their own desires.
People are allowing race, religion, sex, politics to divide the Earth.
The reality is this: The earth is OUR home. We are responsible for what happens to it and the life on it. Humans simply need to eat healthy food, drink water and sleep to survive, yet they are allowing their "educated and enlightened" minds invent infinite wants. Humans think they know what they want until they have it and then they look for something new. It's been that way for thousands of years. People need to stop using "rights" as an excuse to leech off of each other. People need to unite against those trying to kill the planet and our children. Use art. Use your brain. Fight the corruption of their mind and fight the corruption of your own. We can do this.