Has Islam become idolatrous

With the advent of I.S. and the attempt to establish a caliphate, combined with the constant need to defend its prophet muhammed in the media and so on, I would suggest that the focus of the islamic religion has most defenitely shifted from their God, It now seems that Allah has taken a back seat to the religion that is supposed to worship him.
Islam has very strong views on idolatry, maybe if the apologists where to take a step back and to look at what has become of their faith they would see that they are idolizing Islam and not their god. It would be nice for muslims to not occupy themselves with the petty trivial business of defending a faith that many are beggining to see the hypocrisy in and to concentrate on worshiping the diety that they are supposed to.
It is also apparent that the motivation for most within Islam is selfish self preservation and not reverence in their lord, if muslims were to truly worship Allah the religion would take a back seat
I put it to the masses that to truly worship Allah then as with the destruction of mohammeds birth home they should also destroy the koran in order to truly focus their worship towards their creator

what say you ATS, love to hear from some Muslims aswell as to their feelings about this

boomshanka

Shouldn't the title be "Have some Muslims become Idolatrous" rather than Islam.


Because I haven't.


Yes I defend the Holy Prophet (PBUH)...
Why shouldn't I.


Would I be idolising you if I defend you?

Do people idolise politicians they defend?




Some, possibly, but you've now generalised Islam instead of individuals.


It's seems personal responsibility works in every situation except Islamic ones.



Salam.

shouldnt muslims sole focus be Allah and not a book or a messenger or mecca, just solely Allah and nothing else.
I should add that i mean no disrespect and if i do offend it is not intended and just ignorance
whilst i have your attention could you answer a question for me, I personally do not have a faith /religion, can you tell me why you personally feel a need to have one?, i am trying to understand the mindset of people who do, once again i genuinely mean no disrespect and my curiosities are real,
many thanks in advance

originally posted by: THELONIO
shouldnt muslims sole focus be Allah and not a book or a messenger or mecca, just solely Allah and nothing else.
I should add that i mean no disrespect and if i do offend it is not intended and just ignorance
whilst i have your attention could you answer a question for me, I personally do not have a faith /religion, can you tell me why you personally feel a need to have one?, i am trying to understand the mindset of people who do, once again i genuinely mean no disrespect and my curiosities are real,
many thanks in advance

No...
Because The Quran, Mecca & The Holy Prophet are all gifts from Allah (SWT), so they're are there for us to focus on.
We just do not equate them with the Creator, that is idolatry.



As to your question...
I don't need anything... But cannot speak for all.
However, my life experiences have guided me to Islam and it resonates with my Spirit like nothing before or since converting.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

i have found through my studies that people who have grown up with a religious back ground or foundation seem to be unable to see themselves out of a religious context, for example, some of the accounts i have read from people that have left islam will always refer to themselves in a diety related context, i.e., athiest, agnostic etc., I am struggling to understand whether this could be the awareness of a concept of a god or some type of dependency to belong to some kind of a belief all be it non belief, and do people with that structure in their lives understand living without the concept of a diety in their lives, i am curious as to what it "feels like" to have a god, are you curious how it feels to not have one,

salam, (I hope this means respect as that is what i intend)

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You miss the point. It's asking whether Islam itself has become the idol. It gets defended with all the fervor that some might think an actual deity ought to be defended.

So the question is - When an entity like ISIS does what it does, when all those Muslims pour into the streets because of cartoons or a rumor of what might have happened to a Koran ... are they defending Allah or are they defending Islam? Which do they love more? Allah or Islam?

Understand that I am not making any judgments here only clarifying what I think the OP was trying to ask.

I'm not even sure if that is a question that can be asked, but form my perspective faith is a little more personal than whatever outward religious expression I choose to practice and I am well used to people insulting the outward religious expression of my faith.

a reply to: ketsuko

many thanks in helping to clarify my point, it is hard for me to get the concepts in my mind into words sometimes, there is a little more to it but i think that is quite a fair reasoning

a reply to: ketsuko


I think that many religions have fallen into that pothole. Their religion or their church becomes more important than their faith in god. Many people think their job is more important than their family though. They work at a job they hate just so they can keep buying things they really don't need too.

There is nothing Islamic about IS other than its name .. theyre a bunch of psychopaths hiding behind religion committing crimes against humanity ..

a reply to: THELONIO

newenglishreview.org...

“Islam is not even a religion; it is a social, political system that uses a deity to advance its agenda of global conquest”

I further contend that Islam has become a substitute God for Muslims. Worship is defined as obedience to Islam and Islam represents the entire will of God for all men through all time. God’s will is also every single thing that happens. So even if one disobeys Islam, it is still God’s will that he did so. If there is no difference between man’s will and God’s will, there is no God to seek. In Islam God is unknowable – he is completely transcendent and his will is all things. Theologically this is the equivalent to saying there is no God.

Furthermore, when a religion becomes completely reduced to a doctrine and only a doctrine, it is no longer a living faith. It is dead. Islam may be complex and it maybe logical, but it is logic in the absence of living truth. Religion in its broadest sense must be about the pursuit of higher value – of Truth Beauty and Goodness.


There is no higher truth than Islam, no higher good than Islam and nothing more beautiful than Islam. Islam has replaced God, you see, and its ultimate goal is not to lead men to seek those higher values. Islam exists simply to perpetuate itself.

a reply to: Expat888

I agree with you, but some of the members of I.S. truly believe what they are doing is justified by their religon, yet fail to see that they are in breach of what was dictated by Allah to the messenger Mohammed, for me i see even the installation of a caliphe as idolatry, surely this in itself shows that the religion has become corrupted by humanity, a caliph is not needed and should be chosen, as was the prophet, by Allah

originally posted by: Expat888
There is nothing Islamic about IS other than its name .. theyre a bunch of psychopaths hiding behind religion committing crimes against humanity ..

They are just emulating their prophet as he lived on earth, raping, pillaging, cutting heads off, subjugating people. They are more Islamic than the passive ones who follow the Book he made that teaches them to be willing servants thus passive and controllable. Their prophet was an insurgent militant who made them all into domesticated beasts and servants. He left a clause to always strive for a caliphate to beat them into submission or keep them occupied warring the infidels.

a reply to: ketsuko

You forgot to consider that Islam by definition means submission to God...

So what are we defending if not Allah when we defend Islam.





As to your examples...
Images of the prophet or desecration of the Quran...
That is subjective...
Some will protest loudly...
Some will protest violently...

Some, like myself, will amuse myself with thoughts of a lack of imagination at the hands of the transgressor.

If people get kicks out of that, I'll let Allah decide what should happen.

To me, it says more about their lack of creativity than anything else...
So they have my prayers.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

what was it about Islam that resounded with you that caused you to convert?

a reply to: THELONIO

Honestly I don't really wonder what it feels like to believe in nothing...

Because it is not productive to do so, imo of course.


I'm more than into philosophy, but I don't consider "nothing" to be philosophical...
Which is not intended to offend...

This is why I keep my thoughts to myself on atheism because they can be misconstrued as an attack on the disbeliever.
& I intend to hurt or belittle no one, but my thoughts may be perceived as such.


How it feels to have a God, when going by experience rather than blind faith...
Is impossible, for me at least, to describe.


It's a feeling, a sense, all wondrous.

Again, I cannot speak for others, some who may have the words to relay how it truly feels in an understandable context.


Salam (Peace).

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: THELONIO

newenglishreview.org...

“Islam is not even a religion; it is a social, political system that uses a deity to advance its agenda of global conquest”

I further contend that Islam has become a substitute God for Muslims. Worship is defined as obedience to Islam and Islam represents the entire will of God for all men through all time. God’s will is also every single thing that happens. So even if one disobeys Islam, it is still God’s will that he did so. If there is no difference between man’s will and God’s will, there is no God to seek. In Islam God is unknowable – he is completely transcendent and his will is all things. Theologically this is the equivalent to saying there is no God.

Furthermore, when a religion becomes completely reduced to a doctrine and only a doctrine, it is no longer a living faith. It is dead. Islam may be complex and it maybe logical, but it is logic in the absence of living truth. Religion in its broadest sense must be about the pursuit of higher value – of Truth Beauty and Goodness.


There is no higher truth than Islam, no higher good than Islam and nothing more beautiful than Islam. Islam has replaced God, you see, and its ultimate goal is not to lead men to seek those higher values. Islam exists simply to perpetuate itself.

Considering the definition of Islam...
That entire passage either makes no sense...
Or is completely antithetical to the truth.



Carry on.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: THELONIO

Honestly I don't really wonder what it feels like to believe in nothing...

Because it is not productive to do so, imo of course.


I'm more than into philosophy, but I don't consider "nothing" to be philosophical...
Which is not intended to offend...

This is why I keep my thoughts to myself on atheism because they can be misconstrued as an attack on the disbeliever.
& I intend to hurt or belittle no one, but my thoughts may be perceived as such.


How it feels to have a God, when going by experience rather than blind faith...
Is impossible, for me at least, to describe.


It's a feeling, a sense, all wondrous.

Again, I cannot speak for others, some who may have the words to relay how it truly feels in an understandable context.


Salam (Peace).

Charles Manson followers felt the same euphoria also.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: THELONIO

Honestly I don't really wonder what it feels like to believe in nothing...

Because it is not productive to do so, imo of course.


I'm more than into philosophy, but I don't consider "nothing" to be philosophical...
Which is not intended to offend...

This is why I keep my thoughts to myself on atheism because they can be misconstrued as an attack on the disbeliever.
& I intend to hurt or belittle no one, but my thoughts may be perceived as such.


How it feels to have a God, when going by experience rather than blind faith...
Is impossible, for me at least, to describe.


It's a feeling, a sense, all wondrous.

Again, I cannot speak for others, some who may have the words to relay how it truly feels in an understandable context.


Salam (Peace).

Charles Manson followers felt the same euphoria also.

Great.

originally posted by: THELONIO
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

what was it about Islam that resounded with you that caused you to convert?

That would take an entire thread to divulge.

Everything may seem a vague answer...

But it's true, everything resonated.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

iI am happy for you that you found that something that so many seek