Greece puts a figure on Nazi reparations claims

a reply to: grumpy64

Probably because they know that Italy is as bankrupt and corrupted as they are.

i wonder if the E.U really wants greece to fix the economy or if they are just trying to provoke them into war?
greece can't pay with what europe is doing to them so why do they keep pushing as if they will suddenly get money out of nowhere?

it's like holding someone's face underwater and telling them to breathe or they'll drown, they will drown in the end either way.

a reply to: dollukka

Greek governments and also private citizens have pushed for war damages from Germany for decades, but the Greek government has never officially quantified its reparation claims.

As if it needs to. They let that other debt to their country go till recently. Lets call it even.

The third reich devastated their country, Germany should back off. Greeks aren't German, they aren't even EU, they are Greek.

Germany lost the war, but they won Europe.

So the saying goes.

If that doesn't tell you the entire game is rigged, and we're being played, nothing will.

Reparations should have a statute of limitations for making the claim--like, within a generation. After theat, many of the country's citizenry and leaders were not even a party to or culpable for the damages.

Same goes for the idea of reparations for slavery here in the US...and everything.

I don't think modern Germany owes Greece a damn thing.

originally posted by: intrptr
The third reich devastated their country, Germany should back off. Greeks aren't German, they aren't even EU, they are Greek.

I wonder, did the Soviets pay war reparations to the countries in Eastern Europe that they occupied and destroyed? Poland? Ukraine? Baltic states? The list is endless. These nations were "third parties", yet were greatly abused. What if Latvia threw in a bill for the mess the Soviets made?

Soviet crimes against Poland

The war has been and gone. Greece needs to move on.

a reply to: paraphi

No they didn´t as Soviets were considered as a winners fighting in right side of the war.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Infrastructure damage and theft....
Occupational damage and theft...
Ancient artefact damage and theft...
Loss of revenue in such time...

Taking inflation into consideration...

Probably owed more than that.



Everyone should sue Germany for such atrocities.

They sat back and put the Nazis into power and then tried to fully genocide Gypsies, Jews, Disabled people & many others for their Aryan Master Race...

Merkel looks pretty Aryan, seems they did well out of it all.


China should do it to Japan aswell...

& Europe to Italy for Mussolini's part in the war.
Russia too for Stalin's purge...



& the Vatican for it's historical crimes...

Then seize the billions in assets of ISIS...




Divide it up between the nations affected!

What the economy bloom!!!

And get reparations from the UK for what it did to India, yes?

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: paraphi

No they didn´t as Soviets were considered as a winners fighting in right side of the war.

A war they helped start and started with a brutal invasion of Poland and the Baltic states. See Molotov-Ribbontrop pact

Also see Katyn Forest Massacre

The Russians are a bit hypocritical in demanding reparations from anyone for abuse.

originally posted by: paraphi
Greece needs to move on and stop trying to find excuses for their diabolical economic mismanagement.

The mess that Greece got in to was entirely of their own making. Over-spending and living beyond their means. Reparations is a red herring.

It was not really all their fault. I grew up in Portugal , and before the Euro kicked in 500 Portuguese Escudo$ (probably around 10 bucks) would be enough for a whole night out including gas and cigarettes. Today 5 euros is not enough for a breakfast. The only country that benefited from the euro was Germany. They connected all the countries building new highways for the transports trucks that they build(mercedes), they get cheap labor from people leaving poor countries like Portugal and Greece. The Germans tried to control Europe twice and they failed , now they are just doing it economically

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: dollukka

Greece seems to be a bit late to the reparations party.

Not even sure if a nation can even claim war reparations after such an extended period of time has transpired.

Why the delay until now? Possible because they are skint.

They aren't late, Germany paid over 100 million DM in 1990 which they say was the amount that was legally agreed. I'm not really sure how costs can be easily defined after such a time - should most of Europe sue Italy for the pillage and murder carried out by the Roman Empire?

a reply to: paraphi

Soviets? This is between The EU's. A failed common currency state. Haven't you noticed? The planners wanted it this way to get more wealth. They don't live in Greece, Italy or Spain.

The war has been and gone. Greece needs to move on.

Move where? They are under NATO's gun, ultimately. They have endless debt, endless war and endless austerity to look forward to.

I would be "moving out" of the EU and back to their own independent nation status. Declare bankruptcy and spit in the eye of all the bankers, militarists and Oligarchs.

a reply to: NavyDoc

i know.. my country invented molotov´s coctail. Same country ( only country ) paid all reparations in full, it took years to do and ended 1952. I just wonder as we were not the country which attacked, we just fought for our independence should we ask Russia for repayment with intrest of course lol.

As Germany never met with reparations to Greece, i can see this demand ( sarcasm) as a way play Germany ( EU )"out".
Tomorrow is the day Greece has promised to pay part of its loan back to EU, we will see where this leads ( most likely to nothing ) and Putin is having negotiations today with Prime Minister Tsipras to find a way to get Greece out of misery .. Keeping in mind that Putin has his own agendas on this deal too.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: paraphi

Soviets? This is between The EU's. A failed common currency state. Haven't you noticed? The planners wanted it this way to get more wealth. They don't live in Greece, Italy or Spain.

The war has been and gone. Greece needs to move on.

Move where? They are under NATO's gun, ultimately. They have endless debt, endless war and endless austerity to look forward to.

I would be "moving out" of the EU and back to their own independent nation status. Declare bankruptcy and spit in the eye of all the bankers, militarists and Oligarchs.

And then they just run up more debt and are back in the same position because a country cannot spend itself into prosperity. Ultimately Greece's fiscal problems are caused by the Greeks.

a reply to: intrptr

Nato is also a companion Greece doesn´t afford to. While they are in between a rock and hard place economically they have been investing in military crafts etc
Defense Budget: $6,540,000,000 which is twice as much what Finland has and area they are living in are 3 times smaller than Finland. Being a Nato country.. is expencive.

It looks like Greece night have another source of financing anyway, The Russians would love to run their Gas Pipelines into Europe through Greece and thereby bring the Greeks more into their sphere of influence.

www.zerohedge.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.zerohedge.com... offer-greece-new-loans-gas-price-discount

While Greece spent Easter weekend (not Orthodox Easter that is) assuring the IMF (the "institution", not the critical third member of the Troika that shall not be named) that the €450 million payment due to Christine Lagarde's "institution" will be made despite Greece officially (rather than just unofficially) running out of money and being forced to prioritize repaying its creditors over paying wages and pensions, its Prime Minister is currently evaluating what the Plan B will be when he visits Vladimir Putin tomorrow, one day ahead of the double Greek deadlines of IMF payment and cash running out.

As FT reports, "when Alexis Tsipras visits Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin on Wednesday there is a chance the Greek premier’s eastern manoeuvre will immediately bear fruit: kiwis, peaches and strawberries to be precise. Athens is hopeful that Moscow will lift a retaliatory ban on Greek soft fruits to demonstrate the abiding strength of Russo-Greek relations, just as both leaders feel a diplomatic chill with Europe over the Ukraine crisis and Athens’ bailout saga respectively."

Of course, every Greek request for a concession "quid" will be met with a proportional Russian quo, and it is this that worries European diplomats - namely will the Putin-Tsipras gladhanding amount to something more significant than fruit trade. "The big fear, in the words of one suspicious senior official, is a “Trojan horse” plot, where Russia extends billions in rescue loans in exchange for a Greek veto on sanctions — a move that would kill western unity over Ukraine."

No such shock is expected this week. But as Athens nears the brink of insolvency there is growing alarm that Mr Tsipras’s radical left government might turn to Moscow in desperation. It would set off the biggest panic over Greece’s strategic alignment since the 1947 US Marshall Plan, initiated to save the country from communist fighters that Mr Tsipras’ Syriza party lionise to this day.
Others are hoping that Tsipras visit is merely a, well, Trojan horse strawman, meant to instill fear in Europe that Russia can spread its tentacles to a country which is still a member of the Eurozone, and is merely a "ploy in bailout talks with Germany and the eurozone. In spite of historic cultural ties and Syriza’s Soviet romanticism, analysts think Greece is too tied to the west – through EU and Nato membership – and too deep in debt for sanctions-damaged Russia to buy it off as a reliable ally."

“The Greeks are using Russia as a way to piss off Berlin, to frighten them. Tsipras wants to show he has other options,” said Theocharis Grigoriadis, a Greece-Russia relations expert at the Free University of Berlin.

“But he has no intention of making Greece a Russian satellite. The Russians know that. The Germans know that. It is pure theatre, a Greek game, and I’m afraid it looks like a poodle trying to scare a lion.”
And that is 100% wrong, because every decision has a bid and an ask. And all it would take for Russia to expand its "satellite" nations by one more is to offer enough promises and gifts to a nation that has been on the verge of social and economic collapse of the past 5 years.

Such as a discount to all important energy prices and, even better, a replacement loan - one which comes with less "austere" conditions than anything Greece could get out of Europe. Which, according to Russian Kommersant as reported by Reuters, is precisely the carrot that Russia will dangle before the Greek PM. From Reuters:

Russia may offer Greece a discount on gas deliveries and new loans when Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras visits Moscow this week, the Kommersant business daily reported on Tuesday, citing one source in the Russian government.

A Kremlin spokesman said last week that Russian President Vladimir Putin and Tsipras planned to discuss economic ties and EU sanctions on Moscow when they meet for talks, which Kommersant said would take place on Thursday.

"We are ready to consider the issue of a gas price discount for Greece," the newspaper said quoting an unnamed Russian government source.

Russia's state-controlled producer Gazprom declined to comment. The Energy Ministry also declined to comment.

The source said that in exchange for the discount and some unspecified loans, Russia would want access to Greek assets. The source did not name any specific assets.

In recent weeks, the gas price charged by Gazprom has fallen, tracking lower oil prices. Gazprom said it wanted to acquire DEPA in 2013 but dropped its bid after failing to receive enough guarantees over DEPA's financial position.
So that is the Russian offer. The all important question remains: what will Russia request in return for these key concessions and will Greece be willing to accept it. Then again, running out of cash may just be impetus Greece needs to open up negotiating avenues which until recently it had said it would never cross as long as it is part of the Eurozone.

a reply to: namehere

a reply to: NavyDoc

And then they just run up more debt and are back in the same position because a country cannot spend itself into prosperity. Ultimately Greece's fiscal problems are caused by the Greeks.

Not if they start over. Thats the beauty of bankruptcy, its a clean slate. People will start anew and build equity all by themselves if you let them.

I'm no dummy though, NATO has bases in Greece. They aren't leaving anytime soon. That would be anti austerity.

The alternative is more misery and more land and resources given up to foreign interest, in lieu of interest payments on the unpayable debt. That is the goal you know. Thats why Usurers loan money…

What sovereignty, what independence?

Ah yeah let's play the Blame-Germay game. Most of the issues in Europe are not because Germany is trying to screw over everyone - it's because the Governments over there don't get their sh**t together and are highly incompetent. The truth is that Governments like France, Italy, Spain are just incompetent and only take but don't give. Greece the same thing - 60% of their country is run by the government - they failed to invest in private businesses and support the local economy and now they trying to find someone to blame. Ridiculous.

Now Greece can scream and kick and call Germany a Nazi state all day however the legal part of this has been already resolved 25 years ago. With the 2+4 contract Germany has been released of all legal war debts and concludes the post-war era. Legally "Germany" as of today only exists for 25 years now.

Also, this whole topic about Germany being responsible for the actions that happened 70 years ago need to finally stop. The Germany today has nothing to do with the Third Reich. It's a complete different country with different mindsets today (although I can't stand this whole communism light mentality - that's why I left Germany and immigrated in the US).

Personally I don't think this whole Europa idea is working at all. The cultures and mindsets are too different except maybe that they all embrace the Government-first idea but people don't care. Its very different to the US that was founded on principles of multi-state to federal government idea. I think expectations on the EU are too high. The whole EU zone will collapse or it will take 50-100 years before it's slightly similar to the US.

a reply to: dollukka

Being a Nato country.. is expensive.

Yep, the real hidden cost is "defense". EU is just another label to bind them to the cause of world domination. I think the greeks would rather sit in the sun and eat olives. They had their go with Alexander and also felt Nazi dominance, they aren't stupid, they're laid back.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Yes exactly!


2nd.