Missouri Lawmakers Don't Want Food Stamp Recipients To Buy Steak

originally posted by: macman
I do have a say. I am the tax payer that votes.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Correct. Which is why i said:

In other words: you can say what you want....but you dont get a say. We are a representative government. Your say stops in the voting booth

bolded emphasis mine.

originally posted by: caladonea
Rick Brattin a Republican lawmaker in Missouri...does not want people who get food stamps to be able to eat, steak, lobster, cookies, sodas. He says and I quote "that people are abusing the system by purchasing luxury foods, and believes that that must be stopped, even if it ends up requiring the inclusion of other less luxurious items."

So...poor people according to him should not be able to enjoy a cookie or some seafood etc.

Link to article: www.washingtonpost.com...

What are your opinions on this ATS?

I personally feel that people on Food Stamps should still have the freedom to buy what they want to buy.

I am so happy to see a thread on this topic. I am even happier with the way the OP was phrased cause it will allow me to get on my soapbox.....

Do you really want to know what I think? If so, let me tell you a true story......

In August of 2012 I went to work one day to find the doors on the business locked. A Shift Supervisor was standing outside telling each of us as we came to work that the business was now closed and we were all out of a job.

I spent the next 4 months unemployed. To some that may not sound like a big deal, but to me, a guy who was living paycheck to paycheck to begin with and barely getting by, this was a catastrophe. I went from making just enough to get by (roughly $1200 a month) to making $150 per week from unemployment benefits, or $600 a month.

Now lets do some math.....

Rent: $500 a month
Electric: roughly $125 per month
Water: $6.00 per month
Gas (not for car): $15..00 per month
Phone: $115.00 per month
Cable/Internet: $125.00 per month.

As you can see, $600 per month does not even begin to scratch the surface of what I needed to keep my head above water. As you can tell, the list leaves off things like food, toilet paper, bath soap, laundry soap, toothpaste, shaving cream and all other things one would need to just live day to day. Eventually I found a part time job which helped a bit.

The point of this story is this.....

I was forced to live in such a way that I had to become very good at budgeting money. I had to stretch every dollar I had to keep a roof over my head. I had to cut out anything that was not truly needed. Any luxury whatsoever had to be removed from my life if I was going to make it through this rough patch. Some of the things I did cut out, aside from the obvious like cable TV, nights out, things that are clearly a waste of money when you have no money, were......

Sodas.
Energy Drinks.
Steaks.
Shrimp.
Fresh Produce.
Cigarettes (which was a big deal for me).

I cut these things out due strictly to cost. Why would I buy a package of steaks for $20.00 to eat for one, maybe two meals, (notice I said meals and not days)- when I could buy a package of rice, 5lbs of ground beef, and some other things that would allow me to eat for the next 7 days?

When a person is truly poor, these are the types of choices they have to make, and these choices have very serious consequences. A person who is truly poor will not spend $50.00 on lobster for one meal, cause that one meal today just cost you 10-14 days of meals at the end of the month.

When a person is truly poor, very simple decisions that you take for granted are a big deal to a poor person. Let me give you an example... when you need soap to shower with, what do you buy? Do you buy liquid soap or bar soap?

Most people buy a liquid soap, or "body wash". Which will last a couple weeks if you shower daily and will cost between $8.00 and $11.00 at your local Walmart. That old fashioned bar soap that always seems to have a hair in it, well you can buy a package of about 12 bars of that soap for $8.00 and it will last me for the next 3 months if I shower daily.

Buying soap to wash yourself with is something most people would never give any thought to. A poor person though, does give thought to it. By getting that bar soap, I won't need to buy more anytime soon which in the end means I will have extra money later on down the line to buy things like food.

So as a person who has been poor, has been homeless, and has needed assistance I can say that I agree with this Lawmaker.

This is not a "boot stamp to the face of the poor".

This is not about "freedom to buy what you want"

When you are poor and you need assistance, it is about survival, and you just need to survive long enough to get back on your feet. There is no room for luxuries in situations like that and yes, cookies, chips, sodas, etc etc are all luxuries.

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
Unless I'm REALLY confused, I don't see how our taxes could be the ONLY source for the benefit.

If it truly is only .03/day out of MY pocket...that's a little over $10/year?
That would only be over $200 in 20 years? How does that pay $200/month out?

I'm so confused......

There are roughly 122 million federal taxpayers. That adds up to over 1.2 billion dollars a year, which is roughly what is spent on the SNAP program. Some of the funding comes from state governments as well.

originally posted by: macman
Yeah I know right. Like that splinter that is just too deep to get at. I like being around. To show exactly what the Progressive mindset is all about.

All I'm seeing is someone doing what he is blaming others of doing.

Funny thing, that if I don't have a say, what makes you think that you do?

I never said I did. I don't. I'm not even american. Still doesn't mean your complaining is going to change anything.

a reply to: daskakik

I'm suckling at the Govt tit?
Or, I am voicing my opposition to Govt theft.

You might understand this if you were an American .

a reply to: macman

Then focus on the people stealing the real money, not the petty cash.

You're doing the equivalent of hounding the people that took one too many pennies from the take a penny cup and giving those that are really committing grand theft larceny a pass.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: macman

Then focus on the people stealing the real money, not the petty cash.

You're doing the equivalent of hounding the people that took one too many pennies from the take a penny cup and giving those that are really committing grand theft larceny a pass.

Actually continuing this thought it sounds a lot like cowardice.

What's really going on is, somebody takes too many pennies from the take a penny and you following them around bitching at them that it wasn't their money to spend however they want cause someone else left it, then cowering when the same store is robbed at gunpoint and saying, well they have a gun so I'm just going to hide. Which is what you're doing.

Little bitty take a penny, the poor person on food stamps can't defend themselves, unlike the rich people that control the government and have power and influence, so instead of concentrating on the people really creating the problems, you hide like a cowardly bully and pick on the little guy that can't defend themselves while pretending you care about the greater good, which you clearly don't. You just want to pick on the person you can get away with to feed your own sense of moral superiority.

You lick the boots of the rich while pissing on the people that have nothing.

originally posted by: macman
I'm suckling at the Govt tit?
Or, I am voicing my opposition to Govt theft.

Your complaining and you feel entitled. That is what you are pointing out about other americans, isn't it?

You might understand this if you were an American .

I grew up there so I understand it well enough.

originally posted by: TNMockingbird
a reply to: DarthFazer

Although I sort of agree with you,
isn't Peanut Butter kind of good for you?

Yeah, but after switching between peanut butter sandwiches and ham sandwiches, you get very bored with it, and will literally go without food just to avoid another night of peanut butter or ham. Yeah, peanut butter is very good for you, and after awhile can be very boring.

I agree that people should not be told what to eat or buy with either their own hard earned dollars or the dollars of the tax payers, but I see something deeper going on that just spending food assistance money on certain luxury items.

Here in my neck of the woods, is a big underground market when it comes to EBT cards, that goes to pay for illegal drugs, or for somebody that need cash instead of the food card at the moment

The EBT card business is growing and I see why people receiving them should be monitored more and why not? somebody is profiting from this practices after all.

I'm shaking my head at some of the posters. I do not understand why they even care what people spend on food stamp.

At most a person gets $200 a month on food stamp. It is hard to budget and stretch for a month on that. If you buy a few expensive food you take a chunk out of it and you suffer as a result maybe at the end of month.

If people are using food stamp illegally they will be found out soon or later. Don't worry about that.

a reply to: marg6043

But in my neck of the woods, there isn't a big market for such things. So why should people who live here have to put up with increased scrutiny?

Further, with only $80bil/year being put into SNAP, and that amount only being 0.06% (less than 1/10 of a percent) of the total annual budget....seems like a tempest in a teacup to me.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
I'm shaking my head at some of the posters. I do not understand why they even care what people spend on food stamp.

At most a person gets $200 a month on food stamp. It is hard to budget and stretch for a month on that. If you buy a few expensive food you take a chunk out of it and you suffer as a result maybe at the end of month.

If people are using food stamp illegally they will be found out soon or later. Don't worry about that.

Because apparently people are hateful. Hateful, as in "full of hatred". And controlling. Blindly searching for people they can feel somehow superior to. Sinking pretty low already -- to have to seek out people having problems such as those needing help buying food. Kicking people when they are down. It's becoming a sport.

What worries me about some of these comments, is the frenzy it could stir up. I'm serious. People grabbing groceries from recipients in the parking lot screaming "I paid for that" and such. It's troublesome. Yes, I'm really concerned about where all this fury might lead.

Caldonia, thank you for the topic however. It's been a real lesson in petty people I see on here everyday, and the greed and resentment that consumes many, and profound ignorance from others. Its' disheartening. : (
'
Puppylove, I think I love you. Hope you will love the new job and they pay you what you're worth! And BFFT, the voice of reason as always. You too, D.A.

Not a single mind or heart has changed. You can't MAKE someone experience compassion or understanding, I guess, if they don't have anything to work with, or only recognize suffering as a personal issue. *shrugs.

Is there irony at all is seeing the "all laws are personal infringements on liberty" folks ready to legislate freedom into the dust on the basis of a few dollars worth of food credits?

Government interference BAD ... unless I believe in it and want to use it to control the undeserving.

Right?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I'm not a socialist, but I think what's fair is fair. You don't take money from those who are barely scraping by.

BIG HUG to you!!!!

(Although, yes - you are a socialist....)
and welcome aboard!

Lol! how did I miss this post? Cracked me up............ ; )

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

Caldonia, thank you for the topic however. It's been a real lesson in petty people I see on here everyday, and the greed and resentment that consumes many, and profound ignorance from others. Its' disheartening. : (

I was thinking earlier today how some who have responded to this thread do come across as very hard hearted...I was wondering where the compassion and caring about humanity went to. I wish more people were tender hearted.

When I created this thread I had no idea I was going to get this large of a response.

Even though there are some members that i agree to disagree with...I still appreciate the fact that they took the time to respond and tell me what they think...and of course that goes to everyone else too!

originally posted by: mikecheque
Lobster may be a luxury food, but I do not see how steak is. The only "luxury" I see in steak rests in it being pre-cut for you. My wife went to our local farmer's market and bought ribeye roasts and had them cut into "steaks". She spent about 100usd for 20 or so steaks, cut an inch and an inch and a half respectively. Paired with some good frozen vegetables, a steak dinner costs us about 7 dollars per person. Not really a big budget meal in my opinion.

This goes back to what I said before about the complete disconnect. $7 on a single meal? To a person on food stamps that's often times several days worth of food. Using the average which is closer to $100/month for a single person with no kids that's $3.33 per day to eat. $7 on a single meal is more than two full days of food. So yes, that is big budget.

originally posted by: HomerinNC
$120.00 a week??? Stretch???
I honestly dont know what to say, I have to live on about $100.00 A MONTH

Human nature, for whatever reason people like to see themselves as living paycheck to paycheck. Those who are well off rarely if ever actually recognize that they're well off. Instead they see themselves as barely making it. Largely due to them accounting for every dollar they have and spending/saving it somewhere.

You're lucky you get $100/month. In my area they cut food stamps so I get $42/month. A couple years back it used to be $200/month at the same income. Throw in a couple years of inflation and somehow the amount is 1/5 what it used to be. Go figure.

originally posted by: bbracken677
It is my opinion that any govt benefits should be accompanied by a cup in which to pee into as well. If you can afford drugs, then by yumpin yimminy you can afford your own food. Why should my tax dollars contribute to supporting your drub habit?

Florida tried that. Only 2.6% of welfare recipients were using drugs. In Kansas it was 11 out of 2500 people or less than 1/2 of 1%. While your objection makes sense that we shouldn't be funding drug use, all evidence shows that we aren't doing so. Actually, what we've seen is that it costs more to perform the drug tests that catch the small number of drug users than it does to not do any drug testing, and fund a small number of them.

originally posted by: caladonea
In society there are some very cruel people who are very narrow minded...and like to invade peoples lives when they are not invited to do so. It is unfortunate...but it happens. I think perhaps that man that approached you was a narrow minded busybody.

There's a lot of people out there that like to pass judgment on others. There's also a lot of people out there who have their sense of self worth tied up in seeing others go without things they personally can get. People like this Missouri lawmaker are one of those people. Someone in a lower economic class purchasing the same item he has, makes him feel like less of a human being. So he tries to legislate it away. This feeling is actually quite common, see this next quote for example.

originally posted by: Pants3204
They shouldn't be given the "fine things in life" on the government's dollar. They should be provided basic sustenance until they acquire the means to enjoy luxury foods on their own merit. If you're providing the "fine things in life" to people for free, what incentive is there to actually earn those things?

Why? Does it harm you for anothers discomfort to be taken away slightly? Can you only feel good about yourself when you can see others suffering and you can think to yourself "I'm glad I'm not one of them"? Perhaps it's more along the lines of "I'm not suffering like them so I made good choices in life, they're suffering so they made bad ones"? So if they aren't feeling bad, you're incapable of feeling good?

Lets put it this way. By definition someone is going to be in the bottom 1% of income earners right? If someone who is poor manages to get a job and earn more money what happens to the person they displaced? That person ends up at the bottom and now has a life of misery. You yourself are 1 good product idea of someones away from unemployment and bankruptcy. If that happens, should you goto bed hungry every night or be forced to make poor dietary choices? Have you ever even experienced the feeling of dread and sickness that comes with meals after you've eaten nothing but plain rice for the 20th day in a row? What gives you the right to inflict that on someone else when you have the power to easily alleviate that burden?

You're kidding yourself if you think being in discomfort motivates people to earn more money. Upward mobility in the US is nearly gone, infact the exact opposite is happening where people are rapidly falling through the economic classes. People have plenty of motivation to earn more money but the opportunity is gone. Eating nice food doesn't factor into it at all.

originally posted by: macman
But, your dismemberment insurance isn't being paid for by other tax payers.

Insurance is paid by others. When it pays out to you, it pays out far more than an individual put in. That's the purpose of it, pools of money are made and they cover catastrophic incidents. I don't see you pushing to have a say over what others in your insurance pool do. It makes you sound like a bit of a hypocrite. Of course, if you do then it just makes you a control freak.

originally posted by: macman
I didn't say bread lines, now did I?

Anything is better then handing over money to people that can't seem to keep the money they work for.

North Korea doesn't have bread lines either. They distribute a rationed amount of goods to households each month.

As far as people keeping money goes, maybe if jobs paid more people could hang onto some of what they have. That's not the way our current economy is set up though, the whole thing is designed for people to spend. Until you are wealthy there is little if any incentive to save anything at all.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If it is tax payer funded, then yes...the tax payer does have the right to say this, via Govt.

If truly is about food, then giving people food is the answer.

Whether that food is on an EBT card or given out as raw goods you're paying out the same amount either way, based on what you've said before as someone who thinks even clean needle programs are theft from you, you should be vehemently against the government taking your money to purchase food and provide it to others. The only thing giving out raw goods does is let you exercise control over other people. I guess that answers the control freak question. So much for your proclamation of a small limited government that allows people to make decisions.

a reply to: caladonea

I wish more people were tender hearted.

You know what's so odd about me though, is I'm really not all THAT tender-hearted! To some degree, yes of course, but my cues on what to think in these type circumstances come mostly from my brain (or what's left of it) -- its almost an innate, inherent sense of right and wrong. Of justice. On seeing a headline like this one and rather than feeling "aww, that's so mean", I think "now that's just WRONG dammit. Who do these people think they are?" lol!

Anyway, it's a mixed bag. Works for me. : )

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
If you want to abolish SNAP altogether...that is one thing. But to worry about how someone spends money that really isn't yours anyway....

Actually that money is mine so I do have the right to suggest what it is used for....

Like i said earlier: this is about individual rights. You and 1000 other people may want to decide where a homeless man spends his EBT funds, or what he spends it on. But you don't have that right.

I guess you have a problem with the WIC program too since they can not buy crap on it....

a reply to: Xtrozero

Beef is not "crap".

And, as I have said quite a bit: your say in how that taxed money gets used stops in the voting booth. Otherwise, I want a say in what everyone else gets to eat. Since my tax dollars subsidize farmers/ranchers, and provide lower food costs for everyday people.

Food stamps...tax breaks...subsidized food is subsidized food. Right? I only wish it were actually so. Since cotton is heavily subsidized, we could rid ourselves of pants that are worn too low.