The Questions That Abiogenesis Needs To Answer, Before Evolution.

a reply to: kennyb72

Reason I brought Chopra in this is simple, your view just remind me of his, and both are trying to mystify something that we simply don't know. So yes, even we don't know what consciousness really is, we can disregard Chopra's claims for simple reason - they are not scientific, not testable nor they are built by understanding certain part of science, but by bending them to his needs.

We know for sure that Chopra in all of this is for simple reason - money - his view pay, while work in lab and being just another scientist usually does not pay well. He is just simply rotten egg, and what you think is calm, its actually Chopra jumping from one topic onto other, trying to avoid acknowledging that he really has no evidence, just mix of wishful ideas that none of them have been proven or testable.

Some interesting reads...

www.newyorker.com...

No, Astrobiology Has Not Made the Case for God
By Lawrence M. Krauss


Recently, the Wall Street Journal published a piece with the surprising title “Science Increasingly Makes the Case for God.” At least it was surprising to me, because I hadn’t heard the news. The piece argued that new scientific evidence bolsters the claim that the appearance of life in the universe requires a miracle, and it received almost four hundred thousand Facebook shares and likes.

The author of the piece, Eric Metaxas, is not himself a scientist. Rather, he’s a writer and a TV host, and the article was a not-so-thinly-veiled attempt to resurrect the notion of intelligent design, which gives religious arguments the veneer of science—this time in a cosmological context. Life exists only on Earth and has not been found elsewhere. Moreover, the conditions that caused life to appear here are miraculous. So doesn’t that mean we must have come from a miracle at the hand of God? “Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?” Metaxas writes.
...

All those little thing to disprove science and provide ultimate answer to all questions - God did it...

a reply to: SuperFrog

Yes, I agree. From what I've seen with Chopra, he uses a lot of technobabble to explain his worldview. His conversation with the theoretical physicist is quite telling and actually reminds me of quite a bit of my interactions with Kenny on here. Chopra's view has nothing to do with actual quantum mechanics. He has romanticized his view of QM to suit his beliefs, rather than learning what the QM concepts actually mean, and considers it unwavering truth despite being almost 100% subjective. He also doesn't know much about science, but is happy to generalize it. "Understand the infinte", "a super position of possibilities", etc, these phrases do not actually mean anything in science. I just wish people would give science the time to study and understand concepts like that before abusing them to create a belief system.

well stated a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

a reply to: Barcs

At this point, I have a feeling that our little discussion with kennyb72 about science is best described by Tim Minchin in his poem 'Storm'. It is well described denial of science and mysticism in everything...




By the way, even his highness, Chopra made it into this song...

Similarly to 'Q - You know what they call alternative medicine that is proven to work? A - Medicine!', we can apply the same to science - alternative science that is proven correct is called - science .

a reply to: SuperFrog

We know for sure that Chopra in all of this is for simple reason - money - his view pay, while work in lab and being just another scientist usually does not pay well. He is just simply rotten egg, and what you think is calm, its actually Chopra jumping from one topic onto other, trying to avoid acknowledging that he really has no evidence, just mix of wishful ideas that none of them have been proven or testable.

The more I learn about Chopra the more I respect his views, I concurr completely with everything he has to say.

Oddly enough, there is not much in this interview that Dawkins disagrees with either, but I know which one I would trust most with my welfare. Your description of him as a rotten egg is totally unjustified and based on your own lack of understanding.

I am glad you found your Woo Woo scientist, that has no problem to misinterpret quote of others, mix different fields of physics that he does not master and create his own conclusion... it is not my lack of understanding, but actually Chopra's lack of understanding how science works...

Scientist would never say 'there is hidden connectivity', its either something you can prove, test and verify or its not.

BTW, here is woo woo explanation, by none other then Sam Harris...



Simply, it is just not true...

But, there is something more important that we are missing here, it is not just as you see it my bias toward Chopra or just his misinterpretation of science, but how hard it to find clear line between his foolishness and find where it turns into fraud. You can actually get a book that explains this well... Might be of interest to you...

Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud

Without the Source code nothing can operate, which means life must have a programmer...Common sense dictates this.

a reply to: SPECULUM

Do nature create mathematics or do it exist by itself?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SPECULUM

Do nature create mathematics or do it exist by itself?

Same answer....The Programmer

a reply to: SPECULUM

Same answer....The Programmer

The Programmer created himself? Wow. Profound.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SPECULUM

Same answer....The Programmer

The Programmer created himself? Wow. Profound.

Isn't It?

a reply to: SuperFrog

But, there is something more important that we are missing here, it is not just as you see it my bias toward Chopra or just his misinterpretation of science, but how hard it to find clear line between his foolishness and find where it turns into fraud. You can actually get a book that explains this well... Might be of interest to you...

It is just hopeless trying to continue this discussion, as it, to me compares with describing the colour of the sky to a blind man. You are missing a faculty.

I have arrived at the conclusion that many people have been denied this sight, so as to have a particular kind of human experience.

You cannot tell those of us that know, at this very profound level that we are wrong. It is clear to us. Not a fuzzy feeling nor a misinterpretation. It is as real as life. Our life experiences have reinforced our beliefs to the point that it cannot be denied.

I knew before I was ten years of age, that this experience was not as it appeared to be, and my particular experience was designed for me. We all have different spiritual goals. I will rephrase that, we are all require to do certain things to aid in our consciousness development. You just don't get it in this life, period. It's not your mission this time round.

Woo, Woo is just derogatory speak by the ignorant.

It is clear to me, that one day, you will all regain your sight and all will be revealed to you. The lessons learned from the foolish mistakes made in this lifetime, will become our strengths in subsequent lives. That is how it works, that is the reality of life.

If that statement riles you, I am sorry, that is not my intention, to me it is just the truth.

So to paraphrase your last reply, God (or something similar) gave you insides and 'made a plan' just for YOU??

The same entity, as described by Sam Harris in following video kills kids in millions every year, but special YOU are part of plan, where appears they are part of some different plan??



This can be applied to all religion that place their followers above everyone/everything else...

Only derogatory thing in this topic is Chopra's misinterpretation of science...

Forgot to add, WooDoo Science was printed 14 years ago, since then Chopra went far more south... that thoday probably whole volume would be designated just for his misinterpretation and misquotes.

a reply to: SuperFrog

The same entity, as described by Sam Harris in following video kills kids in millions every year, but special YOU are part of plan, where appears they are part of some different plan??

Millions killed by what? The hands of men with weapons invented by science, health destroyed by pesticides invented by men. Cancers, diabetes, autism, endemic in the environment,caused by what exactly? Starvation through greed of multinationals that steel their resources and despots paid to comply with them.

Free will is the gift of mankind and you blame the creator for their short little lives. Every precious soul born on earth has a plan prepared for them and many of them never get the chance to see it through. What a nerve to blame anything other than humans for those atrocities. And you quote the same Sam Harris that thinks it's OK to torture people.

Truly remarkable logic, Is that what science teaches you?

a reply to: SPECULUM

Math is a man made system used to quantify and measure things. It wasn't there until we created it to explain what we observe.

I wasn't planning on responding to you again, but I had to point out this statement:

originally posted by: kennyb72
It is just hopeless trying to continue this discussion, as it, to me compares with describing the colour of the sky to a blind man. You are missing a faculty.

I have arrived at the conclusion that many people have been denied this sight, so as to have a particular kind of human experience.

This is exactly how religious fundamentalists argue and it is an insulting statement. You are saying that somebody is mentally handicapped because they do not believe your claims, without even entertaining other possible explanations for your personal experiences.

You cannot tell those of us that know, at this very profound level that we are wrong. It is clear to us. Not a fuzzy feeling nor a misinterpretation. It is as real as life. Our life experiences have reinforced our beliefs to the point that it cannot be denied.

I believe that people can create their own reality. You do this every waking moment of your life. If you believe something very strongly and "know" it to be true, it becomes "real" to you and will be manifested somehow in your life. Now, obviously, this is my subjective view, but it is based on my real life experiences as well as observing people from various walks of life that have experienced paranormal phenomena. I believe that this is the common bridge that links the many unexplainable things that people witness and experience and can also sum up your belief system.

BUT, you don't see me promoting this view as fact and calling folks that disagree mentally incapable of understanding it, or claim that you are hallucinating and misinterpreting your experiences. You claim to "know" that you are right, just as many biblical literalists claim to "know" Jesus. Everybody always seems so sure, but everybody can't be right. To me it's obvious. Anyways my point is that you don't have to insult people's intelligence and put your own view on a pedestal above everyone else. Accept that it is your own interpretation as well as your own experience, and that other folks see it differently.

originally posted by: kennyb72
You cannot tell those of us that know, at this very profound level that we are wrong. It is clear to us. Not a fuzzy feeling nor a misinterpretation. It is as real as life. Our life experiences have reinforced our beliefs to the point that it cannot be denied.

If you know this then, you should also know that what you are doing here is pointless.

I will rephrase that, we are all require to do certain things to aid in our consciousness development. You just don't get it in this life, period. It's not your mission this time round.

So, why are you pushing the issue?

a reply to: Barcs

I wasn't planning on responding to you again, but I had to point out this statement:

Hello Barcs, I wasn't intending to make any more posts on this thread either but just as you felt compelled to respond to a comment, so did I.

Nowhere In my statement have I suggested that anyone was mentally handicapped for not understanding or seeing the truth of reality, I am talking of a spiritual awareness that some have and some most certainly do not. I would call that spiritually handicapped. How else can we explain that for some it is as clear as day and others, not even on the radar.

This is exactly how religious fundamentalists argue and it is an insulting statement. You are saying that somebody is mentally handicapped because they do not believe your claims, without even entertaining other possible explanations for your personal experiences.

Would love to hear what those other possible explanation could be, but I understand that you find it an uncomfortable experience communicating with me so we will just leave it at that shall we.

I believe that people can create their own reality. You do this every waking moment of your life. If you believe something very strongly and "know" it to be true, it becomes "real" to you and will be manifested somehow in your life. Now, obviously, this is my subjective view, but it is based on my real life experiences as well as observing people from various walks of life that have experienced paranormal phenomena. I believe that this is the common bridge that links the many unexplainable things that people witness and experience and can also sum up your belief system.

Eureka, and when science can explain that to me, I will be relieved because then we will know that research toward explaining the reality of life is on the right track. Thank you Barcs, now I know we are on the same page, and I am delighted that you experience this.

Also the more you accept it, the more it manifests in your life. hylozoics explains it completely in a very logical scientific and non woo woo way. Science yet to be explored.

Anyways my point is that you don't have to insult people's intelligence and put your own view on a pedestal above everyone else.

Coincidentally, that is exactly the feeling I get talking to evolutionists.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: kennyb72
You cannot tell those of us that know, at this very profound level that we are wrong. It is clear to us. Not a fuzzy feeling nor a misinterpretation. It is as real as life. Our life experiences have reinforced our beliefs to the point that it cannot be denied.

If you know this then, you should also know that what you are doing here is pointless.

I will rephrase that, we are all require to do certain things to aid in our consciousness development. You just don't get it in this life, period. It's not your mission this time round.

So, why are you pushing the issue?

I am a slow learner, got in now though. Thank you for your concern

a reply to: kennyb72

Eureka, and when science can explain that to me, I will be relieved because then we will know that research toward explaining the reality of life is on the right track.

Have you considered:

Wikipedia: phenomenology