Believing what you know ain't so

a reply to: Grimpachi

Spot on.

Not seeing any intelligent statements coming from this guy so far. His stance as he claims himself is essentially the following:

freethoughtblogs.com...

" One way I can know there is no god is that the most common concept of God is defined by its being miraculous, meaning that defies the laws of physics and is thus physically impossible -by definition.

Also that it exists beyond our reality, meaning that it is not a part of this reality, meaning that it is not real "

These are opinions, not FACTS and this is the whole basis of his " gnosis ".

His problem just like any other anti-god spiel is that he claims he KNOWS something when he doesn't know $hit. If he can't see or measure it, its not real to him. Unfortunately thats not how reality works son. There are many unknowns in this reality. All i've read on his blog was nothing but logic fail after logic fail.

I will watch the videos as I'm open minded and will try to leave my christian bias behind but so far I'm very unimpressed. BTW, what scientific or educational creds does he boast ? Anyone know?



a reply to: OneManArmy

Also while searching for more of AronRA material to review I see him get totally owned here:

evoillusion.org...

This was funny to read. I'm seeing his credibility wane the more i look into him

unbelieversradio.com...

by another unbeliever..I think i won't even bother with his videos now. an hour looking into him is all i needed i think...

a reply to: wyrmboy12

originally posted by: intrptr

And the other has them magically created in electric mud poodles-- Poof!

Weight of scientific evidence versus mythological belief system.
Logical minds follow a logical path, and not in spite of questions remaining, but because of them.

Give me data and evidence over fanatical blind belief in sky wizards any day.

a reply to: peter vlar

It has nothing at all to do with origins so no... Evolution does not, nor does it attempt to, explain the origins of anything.

Thats dissociative behavior. If you can't include how life started then you can't assume it evolved as opposed to being "created" (or brought here).

By the way, I hold life was created, just somewhere else, not here.

Again, imo. If one insults the creators of life, to me thats like assuming a 747 invented itself instead of being built.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: intrptr

And the other has them magically created in electric mud poodles-- Poof!

Weight of scientific evidence versus mythological belief system.
Logical minds follow a logical path, and not in spite of questions remaining, but because of them.

Give me data and evidence over fanatical blind belief in sky wizards any day.

Except you can't prove how life originated either, so whether wizards are from the sky or in labs, they are still wizards.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
Not seeing any intelligent statements coming from this guy so far. His stance as he claims himself is essentially the following:

freethoughtblogs.com...

" One way I can know there is no god is that the most common concept of God is defined by its being miraculous, meaning that defies the laws of physics and is thus physically impossible -by definition.

Also that it exists beyond our reality, meaning that it is not a part of this reality, meaning that it is not real "

These are opinions, not FACTS and this is the whole basis of his " gnosis ".

His problem just like any other anti-god spiel is that he claims he KNOWS something when he doesn't know $hit. If he can't see or measure it, its not real to him. Unfortunately thats not how reality works son. There are many unknowns in this reality. All i've read on his blog was nothing but logic fail after logic fail.

I will watch the videos as I'm open minded and will try to leave my christian bias behind but so far I'm very unimpressed. BTW, what scientific or educational creds does he boast ? Anyone know?



a reply to: OneManArmy

Its not anti god spiel, its anti blind faith religious spiel. Its an opinion that differs from your own.
Its too late for leaving the christian bias behind. I dont think he claims to have any credentials at all, at least not in the video I have posted.
What he does seem to be gifted with however is a brain, and he is not afraid to use it. He isnt afraid to question what he holds to be true, so to further enhance his own wisdom. He isnt afraid of being proven wrong or to be made to look foolish, because like has already been said, wisdom is realising how little we know. Its not about gloating about how much we think we know.

Question everything, even if that challenges everything you hold dear.
That is how you find "truths" or understandings of how the universe works and better seek to understand the eternal question.."What does it all mean?"
Instead of relying on ancient texts full of contradiction, where many followers are hypocrites, hiding behind a mask of righteousness, fooling themselves that if they really believe hard enough, the religion will be true, and they will get to live forever after dying. But only if they have been a good christian, otherwise their insecure, jealous, demanding, all loving god will consign them to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity because he loves them.

Thinking, contemplation, viewing things from different perspectives without necessarily taking any of them as the truth.
Instead of taking somebody elses word for it. That is how you find the "truth".

Freethinking, if more people did it, the world would be a better place.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
Logical minds follow a logical path, and not in spite of questions remaining, but because of them.

Exactly.

Reality will always throw us questions, will we ever find all the answers?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: OneManArmy

I doubt anyone here arguing against evolution watched the video or attempted to.

They have just assumed it is about evolution in some way, but the joke is, it is about them and how they act towards information, denying things without even looking at them and doing mental gymnastics to protect their beliefs.

They are unwittingly demonstrating with their posts exactly what the video said they would do.


Both have tried to label evolution as a faith or religion exactly as ARonRa said they would do and as he said they do it because they know faith and religion is not a logical way to go through life. Their responses are almost cliche.

Amen.

Is the most appropriate response to post.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

It has nothing at all to do with origins so no... Evolution does not, nor does it attempt to, explain the origins of anything.

Thats dissociative behavior. If you can't include how life started then you can't assume it evolved as opposed to being "created" (or brought here).

By the way, I hold life was created, just somewhere else, not here.

Again, imo. If one insults the creators of life, to me thats like assuming a 747 invented itself instead of being built.

It's not dissociative behavior, it's the reality of those fields of study. Abiogenesis, panspermia etc... are studies of chemical processes and completely separate from evolutionary theory which studies the affects of biological processes and charts the changes in biological organisms over time. Even if life were brought here in some form from another planet by some other sort of biological entities, it still doesn't eliminate the mountains of evidence that demonstrate the reality of evolution as a true force of nature. Your ET's didn't just show up with the billions of biological organisms shown in the fossil record that no longer exist and your version of events doesn't explain why there is no evidence of nearly every form of life currently thriving in our biosphere in the geological record billions of hundreds of millions of years ago or why they slowly show up in that very same fossil/geological record. The only dissociative behavior I'm witnessing here is yours.

If you want to believe that life was created elsewhere and then brought here, you're still not accounting for how it all originates, you're simply adding a middleman to take the heat off of having to bother with all the pesky science that gets in the way of that belief. It's taking the easy way out instead of looking for evidence of origins, examining that evidence and providing a legitimate hypothesis. No matter how you go about it though, you're still ignoring the real question... did life begin at some point by natural chemical reactions as a result of known or unknown rules in play that are inherent to the inner workings of our physical universe? Or was it all begun by some extra dimensional entity that is the equivalent of "god" as conceptualized by humans for thousands of years? If aliens brought us or the spark or seed that became us, then where did they originate? you can't just rely on extraterrestrial entities as a source of creation without something initially creating them. It's a paradox that thrives on ignorance.

If one insults the creators of life? Demonstrate evidence of such first then we can have a conversation. Instead you're just creating a strawman as a stand-in and utilizing idioms created by YEC adherents to rationalize ignoring all evidence that is contrary to their worldview. It's laziness to ignore the science and pretend it doesn't exist pure and simple.

originally posted by: peter vlar
It's laziness to ignore the science and pretend it doesn't exist

Thats not laziness, that is ignorance.
That is stupidity.

I know you may not know this but I'm gifted with a job that allows a lot of surfing time between duties. Some sites like youtube are blocked so I can't watch the videos here...and I don't come here whe nI'm off....instead i gave him his due and tried to read about his stances before blindly posting any reply like many others do here. From a philosophical standpoint there is nothing but error after error after error in his ramblings. A brain?...Well its not very functional in my opinion and thats just my own opinion so take it for what you will...

The link in my 1st post would have made my comment make more sense because all it contains is AronRA stating he knows things he has no ability to ever KNOW, contradicting himself and putting that brain of his into question...

The link in my 2nd post has someone else reveal how inadequate and error filled his stances are. Give it a read and you may tend to agree slightly or not.

As far as what you say about Christianity:

"Instead of relying on ancient texts full of contradiction where many followers are hypocrites
hiding behind a mask of righteousness "

( If I have ever been guilty of this I don't know. i'm sorry if I have but, I do not htink I'm righteous because I accepted Jesus as my LORD and savior. Based on 100's of hours of reading , watching videos, talking to people like me and YOU, the evidence pointed to this stance being the tuth in my personal view. Please point out the contradictions. I do love the failure of them being presented. It never happens, but if you choose to humor me please do so. I'll read them next week)

"fooling themselves that if they really believe hard enough, the religion will be true, and they will get to live forever after dying. "

( This isn't exactly how most christians view the religion. I most certinly do not. We accept/recognize that we are sinners where the wages for our sins are spiritual death. We stand guilty before god and require Jesus to wash us clean of our sins in order to essentially

" But only if they have been a good christian"

( Your works do not save you. Only the intermediary can and thats Jesus. you only get that by believing. You can't half believe or try to believe. )

otherwise their insecure, jealous, demanding, all loving god will consign them to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity because he loves them.

(People do not go to an eternal place of burning and torture if they choose to follow Satan and his deceitful ways. You are just eliminated. Hell=Grave or unconcious. You are burnt out of existence and its not some eternal long process. You were given free will, but your choices have consequences just as they do in any other aspect of life.

All i can say to the non beleivers is the ruling elite very openly worship Satan/Saturn. Its all over the music industry, in all the major company logos, major sporting events, in your town, its practiced in Christian churches , catholic churches, in videogames, EVERYWHERE...

If these people that are way smarter than you ( the " elite " ) , richer than you, more successful than you, more in the know than you are participating in this activity and on the flip side attacking christianity, attacking family values, promoting unnatural lifestyles, greed, materialism, etc, etc....what does that tell you just in that small apsect? They're just dumb or doing it to fool you ? Thats lazy thinking in and of itself. You are fooling yourself.....




a reply to: OneManArmy

a reply to: OneManArmy

Hey, im just trying to turn over a new leaf and be a little less hostile and incendiary with my replies. I dont disagree with you at all though. The laziness of the stance certainly leads to pure unadulterated ignorance if it didnt begin there in the first place.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: OneManArmy

Hey, im just trying to turn over a new leaf and be a little less hostile and incendiary with my replies. I dont disagree with you at all though. The laziness of the stance certainly leads to pure unadulterated ignorance if it didnt begin there in the first place.

I dont disagree with you, I should have said its not just laziness, instead of taking laziness out of the equation altogether, because it is still laziness to not bother to find things out for yourself.
I should have been more clearer in what I was saying.
As for being hostile and incendiary, it happens to the best of us, lol.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
I know you may not know this but I'm gifted with a job that allows a lot of surfing time between duties. Some sites like youtube are blocked so I can't watch the videos here...and I don't come here whe nI'm off....instead i gave him his due and tried to read about his stances before blindly posting any reply like many others do here. From a philosophical standpoint there is nothing but error after error after error in his ramblings. A brain?...Well its not very functional in my opinion and thats just my own opinion so take it for what you will...

Its all opinion, and we all have one. As does AronRa, to err is human, for anyone to think their sh*t dont stink is delusional.
This is the whole damn point, opening up to the possibility that one might just be wrong. Accepting that oneself can be wrong is the first step of wisdom.

The link in my 1st post would have made my comment make more sense because all it contains is AronRA stating he knows things he has no ability to ever KNOW, contradicting himself and putting that brain of his into question...

The link in my 2nd post has someone else reveal how inadequate and error filled his stances are. Give it a read and you may tend to agree slightly or not.

Im not here to debate the intelligence of AronRa or his credentials, Im here to discuss what he speaks about in the video, which is a the way religious believers blindly follow. To be fair believers of any woo, but more particularly religious believers, they are the most zealous in their beliefs.

I know the bible advocates slavery. What is your stance on slavery?

As far as what you say about Christianity:

"Instead of relying on ancient texts full of contradiction where many followers are hypocrites
hiding behind a mask of righteousness "

Im not talking about Christianity, Im speaking about Christians, there is a subtle difference.

( If I have ever been guilty of this I don't know. i'm sorry if I have but, I do not htink I'm righteous because I accepted Jesus as my LORD and savior. Based on 100's of hours of reading , watching videos, talking to people like me and YOU, the evidence pointed to this stance being the tuth in my personal view. Please point out the contradictions. I do love the failure of them being presented. It never happens, but if you choose to humor me please do so. I'll read them next week)

So you accept an IDOL as your saviour, you accept a middleman between yourself and an all knowing, all powerful God, a middleman that takes worship AWAY from a one God and directs it to a man, an IDOL. If he was ever a man at all.
Does that not sound contradictory to you at all?

"fooling themselves that if they really believe hard enough, the religion will be true, and they will get to live forever after dying. "

( This isn't exactly how most christians view the religion. I most certinly do not. We accept/recognize that we are sinners where the wages for our sins are spiritual death. We stand guilty before god and require Jesus to wash us clean of our sins in order to essentially

MOST christians havent even read the bible, they claim christianity because thats what their parents were.
No we are not born sinners, we are born free, guilt free. I dont need to have nonexistent sins washed away by anyone.
I just need to try not to take advantage of others or hurt others for my own gain. Its not complicated.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I can be a criminal for half a lifetime and just because I accept Christ as my saviour, then my sins will be washed away. Bullsh*t. Sounds like a religion for criminals.

" But only if they have been a good christian"

( Your works do not save you. Only the intermediary can and thats Jesus. you only get that by believing. You can't half believe or try to believe. )

God doesnt need intermediaries. Hes all powerful. Apparently. If you "believe".

otherwise their insecure, jealous, demanding, all loving god will consign them to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity because he loves them.

(People do not go to an eternal place of burning and torture if they choose to follow Satan and his deceitful ways. You are just eliminated. Hell=Grave or unconcious. You are burnt out of existence and its not some eternal long process. You were given free will, but your choices have consequences just as they do in any other aspect of life.

To me hell = earth. But hey opinions and all that. Of course our choices have consequences, some of those consequences can carry over for generations, which is why you do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

All i can say to the non beleivers is the ruling elite very openly worship Satan/Saturn. Its all over the music industry, in all the major company logos, major sporting events, in your town, its practiced in Christian churches , catholic churches, in videogames, EVERYWHERE...

And? Satanism is a religion just like yours. Are they not allowed to believe in fairy tales too?

If these people that are way smarter than you ( the " elite " ) , richer than you, more successful than you, more in the know than you are participating in this activity and on the flip side attacking christianity, attacking family values, promoting unnatural lifestyles, greed, materialism, etc, etc....what does that tell you just in that small apsect? They're just dumb or doing it to fool you ? Thats lazy thinking in and of itself. You are fooling yourself.....






a reply to: OneManArmy

Im not fooling myself, the people fooling themselves are the ones that allow themselves to be ignorant and easily led by propaganda and social engineering. Knowledge is power, power to see through the lies and propaganda that is destroying society. Especially religious propaganda of ALL flavours. Not just your own.

a reply to: peter vlar

it still doesn't eliminate the mountains of evidence that demonstrate the reality of evolution as a true force of nature.

Or adaptation. Life is remarkable in that stead. I thought "life evolved" meant it began from lifelessness?

Thats impossible. Because it isn't happening today, the biosphere isn't filled with proto forms of life from microbes to complex organisms. Life favors what you call it, not the mutation. The mutation dies. it can't divide or, if it does is malignant, and then dies.

originally posted by: OneManArmy

originally posted by: peter vlar
It's laziness to ignore the science and pretend it doesn't exist

Thats not laziness, that is ignorance.
That is stupidity.

I promise I wont ignore the science, can someone show me the science
Science is not assumption and or faith.

Evidence

No the geological timescale and fossil record is not science, its faith

Prove either one is a science
prove they are relevant
Prove they are accurate

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: OneManArmy

originally posted by: peter vlar
It's laziness to ignore the science and pretend it doesn't exist

Thats not laziness, that is ignorance.
That is stupidity.

I promise I wont ignore the science, can someone show me the science
Science is not assumption and or faith.

Evidence

No the geological timescale and fossil record is not science, its faith

Prove either one is a science
prove they are relevant
Prove they are accurate

You seem to be under the false impression that Im arguing for or against evolution.
Im arguing about the way religious people act, you are proving my argument.
You are the evidence.

Oh the irony.

originally posted by: OneManArmy


Im here to discuss what he speaks about in the video, which is a the way religious believers blindly follow. To be fair believers of any woo, but more particularly religious believers, they are the most zealous in their beliefs.

I know the bible advocates slavery. What is your stance on slavery?

I think evolution is atheists Woo, just a religious belief
Something that atheists have to blindly accept as a doctrine to live their lives.

Its tumultuous, I have seen atheists who struggle with evolution crucified because they see fault in some of its teachings. Some fundy atheists will tear at them for questioning the evolution doctrine.

I am a christian and know many christians who believe in evolution, I could as well and have no fear in my christianity.
jesus is my saviour, not creation.
You have a very simplistic understanding of what I can believe

I think atheist zealots like yourself are as bad as religious zealots, no question, your faith is as uncompromising.
You see no fault in evolution, I can see much fault in my faith, I am different to you.

Slavery is a long theological discussion based on many factors. Jesus could have started a slave revolt causing many deaths if He chose to call an end to it, it seems a wise decision that He chose to call His followers to love slaves as opposed to demand an end to it.
many non Christians would react violently if they lost their possesions


Think before speaking

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: peter vlar

it still doesn't eliminate the mountains of evidence that demonstrate the reality of evolution as a true force of nature.

Or adaptation. Life is remarkable in that stead. I thought "life evolved" meant it began from lifelessness?

Thats impossible. Because it isn't happening today, the biosphere isn't filled with proto forms of life from microbes to complex organisms. Life favors what you call it, not the mutation. The mutation dies. it can't divide or, if it does is malignant, and then dies.

The very goal of life is to survive, evolution has been a long series of life reacting to the environment in which it is placed.
Life will find a way. And it did. Now whether God or muddy poodles started it? That is still a mystery. The universe could just be the inside of a giant easter egg, we just dont know, until we do, the universe being a subatomic particle in a much larger universe remains a possibility.
The mechanics of it all are technicalities, the big question is "Why?"