Can you be fired from a future job for signing a petition?

If this is in the wrong place please move it, please/thanks.

On my college campus today there are petitions for legalization of cannabis. When I saw them my immediate thought would be to sign because I would like to advocate the advantages of hemp. However a friend of mine mentioned that he knew of someone who was fired for signing a legalization petition in the 90's. This did not seem possible however because I feel as though it should be a form of protected free speech.

One could conclude from such that any infringement or violation of this protected free speech is unethical and potentially illegal. But I was looking for anyone more knowledgable on the subject.

So I ask you all. Is it legal for a business to fire an employee for signing a petition which could legalize cannabis?

Also, Is it legal for a business to fire an employee for signing a (legalization) petition before said employee worked for the company?

Lastly. Is it legal for a worker of the public sector to be terminated for signing such petitions? (Before and/or during employment period.

Thank you!

a reply to: twhite93

If it is legal, it's messed up.

a reply to: twhite93

The CEO of Mozilla was fired for having made a donation with his own money before he was ever the CEO. So, yeah, be careful what you do because it could come back to haunt you if you wind up on the wrong side of an issue with your beliefs.

originally posted by: twhite93
... So I ask you all. Is it legal for a business to fire an employee for signing a petition which could legalize cannabis?

Also, Is it legal for a business to fire an employee for signing a (legalization) petition before said employee worked for the company?

Lastly. Is it legal for a worker of the public sector to be terminated for signing such petitions? (Before and/or during employment period.

Thank you!

You will shortly be visited by a representative of the Ministry of Love. No need to be concerned, citizen. We only wish the best for you and for your fellow citizens.

a reply to: ketsuko

Right, but a petition should be considered protected free speech? Right?

a reply to: incoserv

a reply to: twhite93

Constitutional free speech protects you from the government.


Nothing about constitutional free speech protects your job.

"Congress" shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the "government" for a redress of grievances.

a reply to: Grimpachi

But shouldn't it protect your job based on the premise that freedom of speech is upheld in all places and that includes the private sector. It would be hypocritical of our government to not uphold those who have had their rights infringed upon by their workplace. Firing an individual for signing a petition seems discriminatory. Discrimination in the work place is most definitely illegal. Can businesses not be held accountable for their discriminatory actions?

a reply to: twhite93

At most work places, they will have you sign an agreement not to embarrass the company which means you shouldn't do anything they consider damaging to their overall reputation. It was likely this that they used to force the Mozilla CEO out although I take issue with the idea that something he did well before he was their employee could be considered problematic. That gets awful thought-police for my tastes because it essentially means that you can never expect to actually have any real freedom of speech ... not if you expect to have a job too.

a reply to: twhite93

NO... Your job is not protected. Doing so would actually violate the employer's rights.


Free speech can also be picketing, Facebook posts as well as sending out e-mails and many other things.

If you picket talk bad about or disgrace your employer your job is not protected under free speech.


Your speech is protected from the government coming back at you that is it. That includes police coming after you for pissing off your employer.


As long as you are not slandering a company you can say whatever you want, but the company has the right to employ who they want.

Smack talkers and petition signers are not a protected class in society from discrimination.

a reply to: twhite93

Yeah you can sign anything....but later on you can be fired for zero reason. Something a lot of us forget when we take a job and that part that says "the company reserves the right to terminate...for any reason without notice etc." is in that application/hiring doc.

If they want to they can let a good, great exemplary worker, never late, efficient, works beyond the scope of his/her job etc....go without cause and say we knew they could when we took the position.

Want to sue them over that firing? Spend a year or longer suing them and paying your lawyers lots of $$$$$$...and in that last second? They can pull out the above card.

Can you guess how I know? Ill just say it was done to me 9 years after the fact....they pulled that card on me about me knowing they didn't need a reason...but their own.

I didn't have the strength, time or $$$$ to fight them. In the end...the judge said "Did you sign this when you were hired?"

Done. Do do it. Petitions, protests, Facebook, twitter, whatever...can come back to haunt you.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Generally, they will give you an excuse, and most companies don't have so many good workers that they will just fire a good one without some kind of compelling reason.

a reply to: ketsuko

Generally? Youre correct. But they can and do pull that when they just want to be done with it....and they usually have better lawyers, more time and more money....believe me.

I spent $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and time and documentations...and it all came down to that day they hired me and that little line buried in all our hiring papers we all sign day-one..."The employer reserves the right at any time....."

And they use that. And when they do...its not considered wrongful termination....no matter how we see it....bastards! (sorry...still upsets me to this day)

:/

a reply to: mysterioustranger

mhmmm!

yes. I'm only 23 but from a very young age I was brought up to understand that what you say can and will be used against you. so be careful what you say especially on the internet ^_^

i'm happy that i'm a fairly normal, personable individual--both irl and online. like, yeah i might have certain views on things, but unless I'm totally educated and well-versed in the subject I don't go out there spewing "facts". Like I might ask questions or show interest but I'm not going to take sides unless I'm 100% sure.

Which is why all these 'activists' confuse the heck out of me. Like, that's great and all but you need to do grassroots stuff and lobbying if you want to look legit. occupying things and protesting and striking doesn't look good. just like trying to get workers comp for shady false reasons is looked down upon. because it's like you protest against the same thing that you work for. which is talking out of both ends and looks bad to management. mean what you say and say what you mean. because otherwise you might end up looking like a liability. and we all know what happens to liabilities--they get fired, ofc

oh, and ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT. READ EVERYTHING YOU SIGN BEFORE SIGNING IT! lol

a reply to: twhite93

I have worked in the public sector my whole adult life. My job did a background check that was incredibly invasive,so yeah if you hope for public work be prepared depending on the job title to explain trading your lunch to the kid next to you in 2nd grade

originally posted by: twhite93
a reply to: Grimpachi

But shouldn't it protect your job based on the premise that freedom of speech is upheld in all places and that includes the private sector. It would be hypocritical of our government to not uphold those who have had their rights infringed upon by their workplace. Firing an individual for signing a petition seems discriminatory. Discrimination in the work place is most definitely illegal. Can businesses not be held accountable for their discriminatory actions?

No. The Bill of Rights prevents the government from infringing your right to say anything you want, but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for what you say and do. Part of your "freedom" is also to associate with whom you choose. A company also has that same right, to associate with people who they feel will best represent the company. When you go through a hiring process, it's not just a numbers game where X month's experience "entitles" you to Y job. It's an examination of your character.

When you talk about "workplace discrimination" you need to be careful about terms. A workplace cannot discriminate based on your gender, for example, because that is beyond your control. Various other issues of your personal life are also specifically protected (even though it could be said you have control over them), including your sexual orientation and your religion and, in some cases, even your age. These are "protected classes," but even here you have to prove your case. In other words, claiming, for example, that you were discriminated against because you were over 40 years old must be backed up with solid statistical data proving that age was THE factor. If an employer can show that, hey, we've got 10,000 employees and X% of them are over 40 just like the population in general and further, X% were promoted or otherwise treated the way you think you ought to have been, so obviously, we do not discriminate by age and we can prove it. In an event like that, your case will be dismissed.

But you are expanding these kinds of definitions way beyond what the law intends to everything you say or do, and most of those things are not in any way "protected" on the job. They aren't addressed by the Bill of Rights. They are not in any way illegal. That's one reason employers can legally test you for drug use. Yes, you may only do drugs on your own time, but if you are under the influence, then you are a liability to the employer and they are not required to keep you employed.

So basically the issue is this. If the employer thinks you are a jerk, then you are a jerk by their definition, and they do not need to hire jerks. Stuff you say and do can definitely be scrutinized to determine if, to the employer, you fit this category. Facebook posts, and posts like this on a forum, are fair game. Yes, it's your "right" to post what you want according to any site's T&C, but it is also the right of an employer to make a determination about your character based on how you display yourself. If your definition of a "jerk" is different, so be it, but that won't get you hired.

a reply to: twhite93

I'll put my 2 cents in, as I work for a company frowns on the particular substance you are talking about.

Legally, if you agree to a company's terms and conditions, you can be fired at any point in time. In my case, I couldn't hang around people that smoked it, because if I came in to work smelling like it, I'd be subjected to a "random" drug test.

And yes, if you do something that is outside of a company's core beliefs, you can be prevented from even passing the initial interview. If I were 100% against pot, and I find through a background search that you signed a petition supporting to make it legal, why would I even want to hire you, when you are already for one of the things I am not?

As for firing someone during the employment period, I doubt you would ever see the official reason being because you signed a petition; but you might find that the job will get rid of you for something small, something that barely passes off as an excuse.

And, just from my standpoint - If I went out, and signed a petition saying that all software, regardless of who built it, should be free for everyone to have and use, I think I'd have to work in a non-IT industry, as I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find a job after signing.

In short: Sign at your own risk.

-fossilera

a reply to: twhite93

Me again...Jumpin' in here again with a line from an job application I just filed out. This explains it all for everyone:

"I understand that, if employed, my employment will be at-will and not for any definite time, meaning that I may be terminated at any time, with or without cause or notice."

So there you have it. Fight wrongful termination or for something you signed or did? They don't really need to give you any reason whatsoever. Period.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

The fact that one MUST sign that to get a job seems unconstitutional to me.

a reply to: Autorico

Well...youre right. But, you wont get the job either. Employers can have their own rules and requirements for employment.

They can and do....and when they don't want to deal with you in being fired...they even can deny unemployment benefits you've paid into.