Russia Decreasing PAK FA Order

It seems like the combination of a struggling economy and the cost of a 5th gen fighter has set in and made the Russians reevaluate their options. They will be decreasing the amount of PAK FA's on order from 52 to 12. Instead, they are looking to 4.5th gen fighters to lead the way.

thesentinel.ca...

a reply to: justwanttofly

There was a report the other day that they are looking at new build Tu-160s I think it was. They have 13 active, but only five are combat ready. It would be cheaper to build new ones than to make the rest combat ready, and then modernize them.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Tu-160s are bombers...?

Source

The Russians are building military for defence, so I guess they think Su-30 and Su-35 with upgrades can be sufficient in combination with SA-300, SA-400 and SA-500 systems. The SA-300 is the most modern after update, but they seem to have sufficient fate in them.

They do the same with their tanks, T-72s get upgraded to T-90s specs with tech from T-14 also in it, I`m guessing they think that will be sufficient too.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Yes, and it shows how they're realigning their military plans.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Zaphod58

Tu-160s are bombers...?

Source

The Russians are building military for defence, so I guess they think Su-30 and Su-35 with upgrades can be sufficient in combination with SA-300, SA-400 and SA-500 systems. The SA-300 is the most modern after update, but they seem to have sufficient fate in them.

They do the same with their tanks, T-72s get upgraded to T-90s specs with tech from T-14 also in it, I`m guessing they think that will be sufficient too.

yeah they are but they were planning on building a new fifth gen (so to speak) bomber as well but decided to look into opening up the 160 line instead. I think thats all zaph is saying since they are related.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I know, probably due to budgetary reasons also, but they seem to have also enough faith in the combination of their stuff as it is with new upgrades.

I read about a T-72 in Georgia being hit 7 times with an RPG in `08 and it still didn`t take him out due to the new active armour...so my guess will be, they have enough faith in that too.

I have no idea how the improved Su-35 will hold up against the F-22, but I think they will bet on the SAM systems being able to defend against those threats too.

And in some what related news, I also came across this...

By making graphene affordable, China says it can now make the best aircraft and spacecraft in the world

If true, China has something really good on their hands.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I'm sure they're also hedging their bets on outfitting the Su-30 and -35 to be able to employ the K-77m, if they haven't already.

I bet the drop in PAK's is part budget, part getting India some planes sooner. They were raising holy hell when they heard they wouldn't see a plane until 2020. I bet Russia just delayed their own PAK's until after India gets some planes.
Interesting they are proceeding with new bombers thou. No idea where they'll get the money for them.

Bottom line Russia has a MASSIVE budget problem that isn't going away. The price of Oil isn't going up soon it seems. That new reality is going to be very difficult for Russia.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

India doesn't want them right now. They said that as they are now they don't meet the performance they were promised, so they're evaluating what changes need to be made.

Official sources told IHS Jane's that the IAF's primary objections to fighter's preliminary design features included the inadequacy of its AL-41F1 engines, its stealth features and its weapons carriage system.

Differences also emerged over the operational capability of the Byelka active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. Additional IAF concerns include the overall development cost of the aircraft, its maintainability and safety features, the sources said.

As a result, in recent months the IAF has significantly reduced the number of FGFA aircraft it plans to acquire from around 220 to 130-145. It has also dropped its requirement for 45-50 twin-seat FGFA trainers as Russia had demanded an additional USD1 billion and extended deadlines for their development.

The IAF is also annoyed over Russian reluctance to share design information on the T-50 PAK-FA -officially designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF) by India - despite New Delhi being an equal financial partner in its development costs.

www.janes.com...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Can graphene stop lasers or can they FINALLY build their own jet engine?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Could the Russians be admitting the new engine isn't going to be ready for a longer time and so they are shutting down production to save on refit costs later then? Wonder if the Ukraine conflict has made the engine building harder?

I could post a quote from India saying how upset they were to wait so long...but I'm lazy right now. The Shaolin Monks thread got me watching some youtubes of them!

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Possibly. Russia has always had issues with their engine programs. They've improved in recent years after buying P&W engines for some of their commercial aircraft, but they had a lot of ground to catch up.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Can graphene stop lasers or can they FINALLY build their own jet engine?

I imagine they are going to mold aircraft out of it.

a reply to: yuppa

Now I've got an idea of a massive 3D printer pumping out graphene airplanes....Thanks!

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: yuppa

Now I've got an idea of a massive 3D printer pumping out graphene airplanes....Thanks!

YA welcome.

Here is where it could be a advantage. no metal to reduce RCS and build in the stealth coating with the graphene.

a reply to: Zaphod58

This is why and I quote.
The Russian prototype is "unreliable, its radar inadequate, its stealth features badly engineered,” said Indian Air Force Deputy Air Marshall S Sukumar

Problem is India thought Russian tech was ahead of theirs turns out the new fighter they are designing far exceeds Ruusia. And for security concerns they think they want their own design

Hi all! First post here!

I wrote this article - The Sentinel is my blog.

Thanks for sharing it.

Russia will in fact concentrate on their Su-30 and Su-35 and work them to their full capacity.

The bomber you guys were talking is the PAK DA .

en.m.wikipedia.org...

I know its Wikipedia



I am glad to have found this place!

originally posted by: Jowade
Hi all! First post here!

I wrote this article - The Sentinel is my blog.

Nice job! Great pics and solid layout. Personally I'm thinking there is much more to the story than simply money problems, although that is likely a huge factor. It's too bad you couldn't find more info to inject into the story.

Now that you're here...time to let the speculation run wild! What couldn't you put in the story due to lack of confirmation...but you suspect is involved in the decision to drastically cut the PAK order??? Spill....Now!!!!

Thanks!

I think Russia is not going forward with the original 52 because they will reinvest in Su-35 so they can more fighter aircrafts faster.

Russia is also broke and their major military drills are quicly draining the defense budget.