IRS in 2016

Hello friends,

Just a short little OP with some thoughts I have about the upcoming elections.

Will we see front runners for the positions of POTUS use abolition of the IRS as a platform? Does that mean that they will be puppets of a New World governance? Even if the IRS is simply audited, it could potentially be the downfall of the organization as we know it and the open door to a new structure all together.

Brief History of IRS

Origin
The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses.

16th Amendment
In 1913, Wyoming ratified the 16th Amendment, providing the three-quarter majority of states necessary to amend the Constitution. The 16th Amendment gave Congress the authority to enact an income tax. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1 percent tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6 percent surtax on incomes of more than $500,000.

In 1918, during World War I, the top rate of the income tax rose to 77 percent to help finance the war effort. It dropped sharply in the post-war years, down to 24 percent in 1929, and rose again during the Depression. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.
1913 Form 1040 (PDF 126KB, 4 pages, including instructions)

A New Name
In the 50s, the agency was reorganized to replace a patronage system with career, professional employees. The Bureau of Internal Revenue name was changed to the Internal Revenue Service. Only the IRS commissioner and chief counsel are selected by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

Today’s IRS Organization
The IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998 prompted the most comprehensive reorganization and modernization of IRS in nearly half a century. The IRS reorganized itself to closely resemble the private sector model of organizing around customers with similar needs.

www.irs.gov...


Bottom line in my thought process is that The IRS will be abolished. Reason being is that they do not want to pay what has become billions of dollars in tax returns to the middle class after the next election.

a reply to: antar

Yes, we must repeal the 16th and 17th amendments.

Well for a quick socialist view of a possible future America...

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: greencmp

Nice on the direct links. One would think that none of this even matters anymore as our Government seems to have sold it down the river without the consent of the Natural Citizens, Voters and even Congress.

a reply to: antar

You know it's all well and good not to want to pay taxes but what will you do when all those services that the government provides are no longer available? What ya gonna do then?

Roads
Electrical infrasture
Border Security
Military
80% of all Research and Development is funded by the tax payer.
Social Security
Education
Courts
Jails and Prisons
and the list goes on and on.

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: antar

You know it's all well and good not to want to pay taxes but what will you do when all those services that the government provides are no longer available? What ya gonna do then?

Roads
Electrical infrasture
Border Security
Military
80% of all Research and Development is funded by the tax payer.
Social Security
Education
Courts
Jails and Prisons
and the list goes on and on.

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

Increase in sales tax would cover it if the government ran with actual financial over site, and we paid them what they were worth.imo

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

Some facts and figures would be nice for comparison.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: antar

You know it's all well and good not to want to pay taxes but what will you do when all those services that the government provides are no longer available? What ya gonna do then?

Roads
Electrical infrasture
Border Security
Military
80% of all Research and Development is funded by the tax payer.
Social Security
Education
Courts
Jails and Prisons
and the list goes on and on.

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

You do realize that in order to pay for all that infrastructure, income tax could be dropped to less than 10% and sales tax to zero, IF we didn't have to pay interest and carrying charges on the debt to foreign nationals through the FED or the Bank of Canada. Right? Ninety (90) plus percent of income taxes and sales taxes are used to pay just for interest and carrying charges.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: FyreByrd

States can raise all of the taxes that the federal government needs.

That will allow for the retention of the practice of voting with your feet to have a non-political mechanism to resist tyranny.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: antar

You know it's all well and good not to want to pay taxes but what will you do when all those services that the government provides are no longer available? What ya gonna do then?

Roads
Electrical infrasture
Border Security
Military
80% of all Research and Development is funded by the tax payer.
Social Security
Education
Courts
Jails and Prisons
and the list goes on and on.

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

You know, because with all the money they've siphoned from the working class, they sure are doing a bang up job maintaining the things you listed... well with exception to the military of course, it will always be over funded.

a reply to: antar

So the traitor Lincoln started all this mess.....Go figure. The federal reserve........This is the real power behind all of this. They wanted control over the masses using currency and debt......It worked. The progressive lie we live under today can find it roots in federal reserve/16th+17th. It is all a lie......The entire system has been corrupted and is unconstitutional.

originally posted by: Mandroid7

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: antar

You know it's all well and good not to want to pay taxes but what will you do when all those services that the government provides are no longer available? What ya gonna do then?

Roads
Electrical infrasture
Border Security
Military
80% of all Research and Development is funded by the tax payer.
Social Security
Education
Courts
Jails and Prisons
and the list goes on and on.

Frankly, big business will never let the income tax stop as the biggest recepiant of Federal dollars are private businesses - either though contracts, tax credits, or out-right subsidies (corporate welfare).

Increase in sales tax would cover it if the government ran with actual financial over site, and we paid them what they were worth.imo

Sales tax is a State Tax. So the state is going to provide it's traditional services and Federal Services too.

You know, a lot of the Federal Income was by way of Custom Duties and Tarrifs - but those are gone. Free Trade!!! Free Trade!!!

a reply to: xuenchen

On subsidies alone (out right give away - pure welfare):

www.ewg.org...

thinkbynumbers.org...

On specific give-aways:

www.goodjobsfirst.org...


On outsourcing:

Employees in administrative support positions working with claims assistance and examination get $57,000 if they're working in-house for the government, compared with $76,000 on average in the private sector.

But the government would pay a contractor a whopping $277,000 a year for the same work, according to a report from the nonpartisan Project on Government Oversight, known as POGO. That's more than the average federal judge earns.

latimesblogs.latimes.com...

www.pogo.org...

As a result of the campaign to make profits off the government and taxpayers, government by contract has significantly increased over the past decade. According to a new report by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), federal spending on service contracts went up 90% from $136 billion in 2000 to $259 billion in 2012. Who were the serial outsourcers? Leading the pack was the Defense Department, followed by Energy, Veterans Affairs, NASA, State, USAID, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Bureau of Prisons (BOP), FAA, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, and National Institutes of Health.

DoD has been singled out as the biggest outsourcer of them all. In 2012, the largest share of DoD’s contract spending went to contracts for professional, administrative, and management services. These are functions that are supposed to be performed by federal employees, who are a lot cheaper than contractors. But because of pressure from anti-government politicians to dismantle the workforce, hiring freezes are being implemented and work has been either outsourced to contractors, who are two to three time more expensive than federal employees, or transferred to military personnel.

www.afge.org...

www.cbo.gov...

No-bid vs bid contracts:

Taxpayer is the loser when Pentagon doesn't require competition among contractors. "The lack of competition is a scandal," says one expert.

www.publicintegrity.org...

The consequence, according to those investigative agencies and commissions: wasted dollars, lower quality goods and services, and in some cases, outright fraud.

www.goodjobsfirst.org...

a reply to: antar

Reason being is that they do not want to pay what has become billions of dollars in tax returns to the middle class after the next election.

They pay with paper and ink. Why wouldn't they want to pay?

originally posted by: antar
Hello friends,

Just a short little OP with some thoughts I have about the upcoming elections.

Will we see front runners for the positions of POTUS use abolition of the IRS as a platform? Does that mean that they will be puppets of a New World governance? Even if the IRS is simply audited, it could potentially be the downfall of the organization as we know it and the open door to a new structure all together.

Brief History of IRS

Origin
The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses.

16th Amendment
In 1913, Wyoming ratified the 16th Amendment, providing the three-quarter majority of states necessary to amend the Constitution. The 16th Amendment gave Congress the authority to enact an income tax. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1 percent tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6 percent surtax on incomes of more than $500,000.

In 1918, during World War I, the top rate of the income tax rose to 77 percent to help finance the war effort. It dropped sharply in the post-war years, down to 24 percent in 1929, and rose again during the Depression. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.
1913 Form 1040 (PDF 126KB, 4 pages, including instructions)

A New Name
In the 50s, the agency was reorganized to replace a patronage system with career, professional employees. The Bureau of Internal Revenue name was changed to the Internal Revenue Service. Only the IRS commissioner and chief counsel are selected by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

Today’s IRS Organization
The IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998 prompted the most comprehensive reorganization and modernization of IRS in nearly half a century. The IRS reorganized itself to closely resemble the private sector model of organizing around customers with similar needs.

www.irs.gov...


Bottom line in my thought process is that The IRS will be abolished. Reason being is that they do not want to pay what has become billions of dollars in tax returns to the middle class after the next election.

Who's New World Governance are we speaking?

originally posted by: greencmp
States can raise all of the taxes that the federal government needs.

Sounds like you'd like to go back to the Articles of Confederation and just scrap the Constitution. That's a bit of an extreme stance, isn't it?

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: greencmp
States can raise all of the taxes that the federal government needs.

Sounds like you'd like to go back to the Articles of Confederation and just scrap the Constitution. That's a bit of an extreme stance, isn't it?

There isn't very much wrong with the articles of confederation but, I do prefer our constitution complete with our bill of rights.

What is extreme is the idea that what I believe is extreme.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

You do realize that in order to pay for all that infrastructure, income tax could be dropped to less than 10% and sales tax to zero, IF we didn't have to pay interest and carrying charges on the debt to foreign nationals through the FED or the Bank of Canada. Right? Ninety (90) plus percent of income taxes and sales taxes are used to pay just for interest and carrying charges.

Cheers - Dave

Got a source on that?

www.cbpp.org...

This place shows that more goes to retired goons than goes to interest. Not sure I believe that.

It also claims that a measly 3% of my taxes go to infrastructure.

originally posted by: lordcomac

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

You do realize that in order to pay for all that infrastructure, income tax could be dropped to less than 10% and sales tax to zero, IF we didn't have to pay interest and carrying charges on the debt to foreign nationals through the FED or the Bank of Canada. Right? Ninety (90) plus percent of income taxes and sales taxes are used to pay just for interest and carrying charges.

Cheers - Dave

Got a source on that?

www.cbpp.org...

This place shows that more goes to retired goons than goes to interest. Not sure I believe that.

It also claims that a measly 3% of my taxes go to infrastructure.

Sorry, I missed qualifying that, it is more than 90% of the FEDERAL income tax portion including the GST sales tax. Provincial income taxes and provincial sales tax pay for pretty much everything else provincially, with the exception of;

a. the gasoline excise tax which pays allegedly for roads but is more often used to bribe town councils with grants so they will follow UN Agenda 21 programs (I know this for a fact as I have been at the meetings and seen what comes down from the AMO (Ontario NGO) and ECLEI (UN NGO).

b. Corporate taxes which actually pay for much of the governmental operations, some infrastructure and defense spending.

c. excise sin taxes on cigarettes and alcohol which are diverted to both government operations and some goes to provincial health care.

d. infrastructure is split up between excise taxes, a small portion of federal income taxes and corporate taxes.

Thanks for noticing, forgot to qualify that 90%. I will see about sourcing the documents for you.

Cheers - Dave

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and opinions on this question. What would replace the current tax codes if the IRS were to be disassembled? What would America look like? With the 3 years in arrears going to the illegal aliens, is it nothing more than a bribe to get them to come forward and then to somehow turn it around to benefit whatever the new face of America becomes?

One thing I sense are winds of change in everything we have known since the conception of the IRS and none of it will be to the betterment of the American citizenry, or not the laborers and average person.