UK General Election Debate! My take!

a reply to: [post=19168228]crazyewok[/post
Sorry but you will have to explain to me how a sovereign country with its own currency can go bankrupt?
National economies are not like households, the books don't need to balance, on the contrary running a balanced budget can extremely detrimental to the nations economy.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Sorry but you will have to explain to me how a sovereign country with its own currency can go bankrupt?

Because if you default on your debts and spend recklessly other country's and international businesses will lose faith in the pound and refuse to do business in it. Our pound would then have the value of toilet paper like some 3rd world African currency. If that happens we can not import vital goods.

with vital food and material shortages and a pound you cant do business with company's will flock from the UK.

Congratulation you have made us a third world cesspit.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
National economies are not like households, the books don't need to balance, on the contrary running a balanced budget can extremely detrimental to the nations economy.

Your fecking nuts if you think that.

Go live in Greece or Italy you will fit in there quite well and see where unbalanced books gets you.

a reply to: Domo1

It's mainly to break into subsections.


I'll try

a reply to: paraphi


Lol yeah, the Tories are te only honest party.


Sure




Btw, the debt we've amassed was a collaboration of voters from all sides bailing out the banks...
Not just Labour...


And austerity is immoral...
Not what will fix the UK...

That will take hard work and creativity.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

And austerity is immoral...

Depends on were that austerity hits.

There is plenty of pork throughout government spending.

Like the 6 figure council bosses and NHS managers ect

And lets not even start on the foreign aid budget.........

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Not what will fix the UK...

That will take hard work and creativity.

You got two options:

Tax hikes

Cuts.


Those are the only ways to rise or reduce money.

a reply to: [post=19168325]crazyewok[/post a country with its own currency doesn't need to default on its own debts, most of the debt is owed to ourselves anyway.
Pretty much every western country runs a deficit, how many have went bankrupt? The problems with greece/italy are related to a badly designed single currency.
To stress again a governments accounts are nothing like those of a household or a companies. Attempts to simply the issue to make it sound like they are is just political sound bites.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Austerity isn't just immoral its bad economic policy. The worst thing a government can do in down turn is cut spending.
Your are right that it will take hard work and creativity. Sadly current policies are more aligned with creating a low wage exploitation economy.

It wasn't a debate though was it, it was just the two leaders taking turns of saying the same old same old election garbage they all spout at this time of year.

Free golden teapots and hookers for everybody! Vote for us! The sun will shine!

Pointless exercise. If they're not going to actually let them debate each other, they shouldn't bother.

This was just a 90 minute party election broadcast. Complete farce.

a reply to: crazyewok

Cuts in places that don't need the money and hiking tax on the rich 1%, corporations and energy companies is Miliband's current plan.

I trust him enough to at least force the issue in the minds of the people...



I never take a politician on their word alone.

That'd be counter productive.

a reply to: Painterz

They did debate each other's policies and were asked similar questions...

All they did was remove the backbiting and hoo haa of talking over each other.



I thought the premise was better than if they were face to face.

& I think one of those types of debates is still to come.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: [post=19168325]crazyewok[/post a country with its own currency doesn't need to default on its own debts, most of the debt is owed to ourselves anyway.
Pretty much every western country runs a deficit, how many have went bankrupt? The problems with greece/italy are related to a badly designed single currency.
To stress again a governments accounts are nothing like those of a household or a companies. Attempts to simply the issue to make it sound like they are is just political sound bites.

You don't get it.

The UK pound has no fixed value.

It is only worth what the international community say its worth.

IF we continue to borrow recklessly and refuse to deficit spend and pay back our own banks then the international community will refuse to do business with the pound. It will become worthless, a soft currency.

Sure we own most our own debt. But we don't have 100% control on our currency value as its a fiat currency and is only worth what other people thinks its worth.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: crazyewok

Cuts in places that don't need the money and hiking tax on the rich 1%, corporations and energy companies is Miliband's current plan.

I trust him enough to at least force the issue in the minds of the people...



I never take a politician on their word alone.

That'd be counter productive.

Thing Is we just don't understand how little power the PM has in regards to cuts.

They can say cut bureaucracy in the NHS or Police. Demand its cut.
The problem is its the bureaucrats that decide who gets cut......and no one is going to sack themselves.
So they then pass the cuts down to the front line staff and they get cut even though there originally were not meant to in the first place.

See the problem?

Milliband or Cameron its the same thing. They have no executive powers. They say cut or spend and its the bureaucrats that do the action and stuff it up.

Only way to even begun to get around it is by forgetting the PM's and forget even partys and focusing on who is in your area and seeing if they are pro bureaucrats and feeding of the UK public. Local MP have some control over the bureaucracy's in there area, more so than say the PM but even then the powers limited.

Its a #ty situation and the whole Milliband and Carmon things a farce.


Its why not matter how much money labor dumped into things like the NHS in the old days it never seemed to improve.
Because like cuts, spending works the same way. The new money has to go through the same greedy bureaucrats and they will waste 70% of any money coming in before it reached the front line.

a reply to: [post=19168728]crazyewok[/post
Can you post without personal attacks? A little civility goes along way.
No one is talking about defaulting on debt other than you. There is absolutely no need for the UK to default as it has its own currency.
Of course the currency has no inherent value (regardless of bring fiat or not) it is a measure. What is important is the economic activity that backs up that currency. That is why austerity is such a ridiculous and self defeating concept.
Reducing the economic output of a nation so that the books balance(which they won't because you have savaged your tax base) does not make us better off.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: [post=19168728]crazyewok[/post
Can you post without personal attacks? A little civility goes along way.
No one is talking about defaulting on debt other than you. There is absolutely no need for the UK to default as it has its own currency.
Of course the currency has no inherent value (regardless of bring fiat or not) it is a measure. What is important is the economic activity that backs up that currency. That is why austerity is such a ridiculous and self defeating concept.
Reducing the economic output of a nation so that the books balance(which they won't because you have savaged your tax base) does not make us better off.

You dont have to default on your debt for international investors to consider your currency to be unreliable.


Just mounting debt and unrestricted defeciet spending make banks and big business lose confidence in a currency.

a reply to: crazyewok
So UK wasn't going bankrupt in 2010, it was a loss of confidence. Doesn't really seem like the same thing.
If the UK was broke in 2010 then it was also broke for pretty much the entire period of the empire as debt levels were similar. Also cost of servicing the debt was lower than any point between 1945 and 2000. We seem to have been on the verge of bankruptcy for a lot of our history?
That AAA rating must seem quite strange in retrospect? Incidentally whose watch did we lose that under?
Just to state this outright, the UK did not nearly go bankrupt and it would be impossible for the UK to go bankrupt.

originally posted by: crazyewok


You got two options:

Tax hikes

Cuts.


Those are the only ways to rise or reduce money.

There are two other options.

1) Tax collection, have HMRC collect the billions of unpaid corporation taxes.
None of the current political parties in the running for election in May have the bollocks to take on international businesses that pursue aggressive tax avoidance. Not only will they (HMRC) have to tackle the companies themselves but also examine their own practices and clean up their act. Aggressive tax avoidance tactics involve big business PR with swish expense accounts to court and groom tax officials.

2) Create a clean slate and destroy the current system. Disempower the banks, wipe all debt and make exploitation profiteering a crime against humanity. The only people likely to seriously support such action would not be coming forward for election any time soon.

originally posted by: teapot

originally posted by: crazyewok


You got two options:

Tax hikes

Cuts.


Those are the only ways to rise or reduce money.

There are two other options.

1) Tax collection, have HMRC collect the billions of unpaid corporation taxes.
None of the current political parties in the running for election in May have the bollocks to take on international businesses that pursue aggressive tax avoidance. Not only will they (HMRC) have to tackle the companies themselves but also examine their own practices and clean up their act. Aggressive tax avoidance tactics involve big business PR with swish expense accounts to court and groom tax officials.

2) Create a clean slate and destroy the current system. Disempower the banks, wipe all debt and make exploitation profiteering a crime against humanity. The only people likely to seriously support such action would not be coming forward for election any time soon.

Actually both parties have agreed to start closeing tax loop holes.

a reply to: crazyewok

Do you believe them?

Can Tories be trusted?

Can Labour be trusted?

Election pledges mean nothing.