The Soldier

This was printed in my local newspaper, adn I love this "poem".

The Soldier

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the right to protest.

It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trail.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag.

And whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Charles M. Province


So show a little repsect for the soldier who died to give you freedom. Please people, refrain to positive posts here. I dont want WWIII to break out.

I have no problem with people tipping their hats to soldiers.

It is just such a shame that at this juncture they have to serve such a useless and corrupt Commander In Chief.

Yep, Masked, thats the problem. They give thier lives under false pretenses, and when the gov is finished with them, throws them out to the wolves, where they get trampled on.

It is the reporter, who becomes a soldier, and fights for freedom of press.

It is the poet, who becomes a soldier and fights for freedom of speech.

It is the campus organizer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to protest.

It is lawyer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to a fair trail.

It is the flag by which all good citizens see themselves, and know the duty they all owe.

I hate flag burning bastards

I once told our Senior Past Master, who saw all of WW2, went in 1942, got out 1946, with a small break in between because he and a few guys were the only ones left out of his entire company.

I told him, "No one shows respect to our soldiers anymore."

And he replied, "Well, when you take someone's life being that of your enemies as well as your friends, you wonder...do we really diserve respect?"

It is the civilian, who never saw war, who respects the soldier.

Originally posted by TheWanderer
It is the reporter, who becomes a soldier, and fights for freedom of press.

It is the poet, who becomes a soldier and fights for freedom of speech.

It is the campus organizer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to protest.

It is lawyer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to a fair trail.

It is the flag by which all good citizens see themselves, and know the duty they all owe.

I hate flag burning bastards

I once told our Senior Past Master, who saw all of WW2, went in 1942, got out 1946, with a small break in between because he and a few guys were the only ones left out of his entire company.

I told him, "No one shows respect to our soldiers anymore."

And he replied, "Well, when you take someone's life being that of your enemies as well as your friends, you wonder...do we really diserve respect?"

It is the civilian, who never saw war, who respects the soldier.

Indeed? And your personal experience in combat?

If I remember correctly Dragonrider your closest experience to combat is a friend whose greatest action was seen in ... panama? LOL.

What you quoted me saying is deadly accurate in ALL WAYS.

The list is accurate, because civilians make the soldiers, it is not a "breed" of men, a born life style, when freedoms are repressed, all citizens shall rise to defend it. Not just the "soldiers".

Soldiers ARE me and you, should the time come.

It came in 1941, and before you knew it my friend was there on the front lines, and he STAYED there for 4 years.

Which is more than you, or your little friends, or even my grandparents ever did. My grandparents saw WW2 as well, though the one in the army saw it for a year, and died before I could ever talk about it with him.

But judging from how he acted, and how he RARELY ever mentioned anything about it to my grandma, he felt the exact same way as every other person who saw War did.

My other Grandpa was in the Navy and I know he disliked it, he hated seeing boys (he was 25) getting into boats and not even half of them would come back.

I am infact right now disgusted that you would even doubt that what I wrote is true.

Because it is true, it is EXACTLY true.

Only civilians respect soldiers.

Soldiers know well enough that respect, and honoring, are two different things.

Because respect implies that what they did was good.

Honor implies that they did wat they needed to do.

And on a personal note, I'm sick of you stepping in here thinking you are the person who knows how others think.

When I told you snipers don't make the war, your friend said otherwise.

Well I'm sorry, but your friend saw about as much war as my cousin did. She's 11.

If I remember correctly Dragonrider your closest experience to combat is a friend whose greatest action was seen in ... panama? Posted by wonderer

Gee, how would you know this if you werent FM? Hammerite? A dozen other names??

Soldiers know well enough that respect, and honoring, are two different things. Posted by wonderer

Indeed, I dont actually disagree with this. What I do disagree with is that you presume to consider yourself a moral high warrior, and hitch along a ride on the bandwagon honoring those who laid down their lives for the people of their country. You, whose favorite game is "holier than thou", trying to pretend you give a DAMN about anyone who has faced combat so that you do not have to.

This rings about as true as watching William Jefferson Klinton lay the wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

In fact, I would take the word of my friend and Lodge brother over any fool you can pull out of the closet.

It took me a long time to "open him up" and in the end it was probably my youth, and thus his elder desire to teach me something, that made it possible.

Because I never really experienced much in asking my own grandparents of how war was, but to think that when they wouldn't tell their wives they'd tell me was childish.

I asked my friend and his first thing was, "Well...when you have your first disaster, and disaster is when your good friend is blown to such small pieces you can't find any remaining trace of him. You have to figure out how you can go on. How you will deal with it. Today other people talk to you about your problems, but back then we needed to deal with it ourselves."

And you could see the pain in his eyes like, "Geeze I thought I'd forgotten it."

In fact Dragonrider I doubt you know ANYONE who ever saw action in WW2, more than being near the lines.

My one grandpa in the Army was NEVER NEVER, on the line, he was always behind enemy lines, and I do know that one of the few things he could tell my grandma, was how he had found a dead German, and took off him his wallet and he saw the family pictures in it.

The kids, the wife...and he could barely go on after that.

My other grandpa, like 5/6ths of all the soldiers in WW2, never actually saw combat first hand, it was either in a distance or he just saw its effects.

This is why I don't really care what whitty crappy comment you come up with next.

Because since Vietnam America has never seen "war", we've seen petty covert actions or massive technological displays.

And I pitty us when we do have to see war again, because it is NOTHING like on TV.

Which is obviously about how much you know.

Originally posted by dragonrider

Originally posted by TheWanderer
It is the reporter, who becomes a soldier, and fights for freedom of press.

It is the poet, who becomes a soldier and fights for freedom of speech.

It is the campus organizer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to protest.

It is lawyer, who becomes a soldier, and fights for the right to a fair trail.

It is the flag by which all good citizens see themselves, and know the duty they all owe.

I hate flag burning bastards

I once told our Senior Past Master, who saw all of WW2, went in 1942, got out 1946, with a small break in between because he and a few guys were the only ones left out of his entire company.

I told him, "No one shows respect to our soldiers anymore."

And he replied, "Well, when you take someone's life being that of your enemies as well as your friends, you wonder...do we really diserve respect?"

It is the civilian, who never saw war, who respects the soldier.

Indeed? And your personal experience in combat?

Hmmm, this poet, reporter, protestor = soldier thing sounds awfully familiar. This is a line out of another member-now-gone's repertoire.

Who was that member now banned?

Oh you get it all wrong Dragonrider.

I'm not on a "holier than thou" trip unless you are less "holy than I" trip.

Which you are.

As I said, I'm sick of you coming in and saying "what was your combat experience?"

The same as yours, NONE. So what kind of question is that?

You quoted me saying something GREAT.

Soldiers didn't fight for anything that should the time come, we would not fight for.

I disagree with the initial thread because of that.

It says "Soldiers gave you this right, blah blah"

No....WE gave us this right, WE ARE THE SOLDIERS.

Just like our Grandparents were.

Yet YOU are the one who comes in here thinking you are all HIGH AND MIGHTY.

And seem to think it wise to debunk me by asking, "and what is your combat experience?"


As if I need any to know what it was like.

Ask a friend and you shall know.

I was so fortunate to be surrounded by those who had seen COMBAT, not just been in the military, but seen WAR.

Vietnam, korea, WW2...not these petty Iraq bombings and terrorist nabbings in Panama and Sudan and all over.

But war...

Where the enemy is not a fanatic with no life, but another citizen, a peson like you or I, who has a family, like you or I, who had a life, until you or I took it.

War...where your life is in mortal danger, and the enemy is every bit as dangerous, and cunning as you. They are not pawns, pathetic targets scrambling for their lives as the Mighty American Military Industrial Complex rolls over them. Our soldiers never seeing the enemy, they are just bugs on TV to squash.

Covert Ops is the only people I'd honor now, because they actually kill people, they don't just kill some spot on a TV screen. Which is a disgusting but sadly necissary way to fight war.

Either way.

That is why I lash at you now.

Because when I say something valuable, and right, that it is not Soldiers who give us freedoms, but ourselves, because WE are the Soldiers.

You come in and get on YOUR high and mighty horse...which I know I've done before, but that should not give you the right to do the same.

All that I've said is correct, and in this case there ARE differing opinions so it's not worth an argument, but it's worth reading and ADDING to your collective of knowledge.

TC why should I be shunned for such a contirbution as "Poet, farmer, desk worker = soldier" comment? This is completely true.

Honor soldiers yes, respect them? No, are soldiers any different than us? No.

They are us...is this a bad comment? ONLY IF YOU ARE AN INSANE SPARTAN WHO THINKS THAT SOLDIERS SHOULD BE BORN RATHER THAN INSPIRED!

Oh please get real. Soldiers today are nothing more than hired killers. Oh how brave it was to go out there with your laser-guided missiles and blow some guys with muskets.

don't get get me wrong, if there was a real threat that we had to defend ourselves against I would be at the front line. These guys ATTACKED, it is mass murder that has occured in Iraq. I hope everyone feels good for their revenge for 9/11.

I do feel sorry for them in a way. Their commander and chief is a lying idiot but if I was in their shoes and I saw what was really going on out there I would have laid my guns down and did time than live with the murder of all those people.

I'm sorry, I think I'm in a bit of a bad mood at the moment. Sorry if I've annoyed any of you.

PS. Drangon you are being well out of order and I believe it is you who is on the 'holier than thou' trip.

I think you are one of the best posters on this site but you are being a right smart ass here and completely changing the conversation to how it suites you.

The Wanderer made a complete valid point and you've completely took him apart for it. I think you should apologise. No doubt now you'll have some smart quip for me, so how about less of the lip and accept other peoples opinions.

Originally posted by TheWanderer
TC why should I be shunned for such a contirbution as "Poet, farmer, desk worker = soldier" comment? This is completely true.

Honor soldiers yes, respect them? No, are soldiers any different than us? No.

They are us...is this a bad comment? ONLY IF YOU ARE AN INSANE SPARTAN WHO THINKS THAT SOLDIERS SHOULD BE BORN RATHER THAN INSPIRED!

Naw, Naw Dawg, no shunning around here.

Yes, the soldier should be respected more than a reporter working for the slant or for the poet cranking out today's monotoned political crap or the homeless protestor showing his contempt for that which he is to lazy to attempt. You know why?

The soldier places his life between you and the enemy, he does it for little financial reward and he does it not for fame or publicity.

I don't care if the individual soldier is a drunken, foul-mouthed Dennis the Menace, he is the one that entered a profession that could get him blown into unrecognizable bits, or shot to death in a foreign land. A bunch of disrepectful derelicts blocking streets and damaging public and private property isn't even on the same par, nor is Maya Angelou or Bill O'Reilly, I don't care what some stupid poem designed to elevate others while denigrating the soldier says.

Please, don't think I'm not saying that the reporter isn't important, and the poet doesn't enhance the value of our culture, but these groups of people aren't the same as the soldier. Both are much more self-serving than the soldier. Of course, they aren't as self-serving as a couple other groups I can think of, those being lawyers and politicians.

Looks like I won the recognition this time Dragonrider, this is ground breaking news lol

Anyways I haven't read all of Nada's post but we agree it seems on a couple points.

One: The soldier today is NOT a soldier, I feel this because soldiers need WARS to fight and what we've been given is just a display of over-kill.

Two: Wow I really like Nada, he sees through my brashness to the point I'm really making lol

Either way conclusion: Thomas see one of the things I'm saying is that these people are ALL the same.

Poets//reporters//soldiers WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

In WW2 Joe Somebody used to work at a News office writing news and on the spare time wrote Poetry, but when the country needed him Joe Somebody became G.I. Joe. After world war 2 Joe Somebody, now retired G.I. Joe settled himself into a nice comfy Lawyer job, helping other now retired G.I.s just like him to get settle house loans for their fledgling families.

It doesn't matter what you do...You're Citizen first, and a requirement of Citizen is while you can hold out as long as you like, when the draft paper or when the war knocks on your door, you heed that call.

So the "Respect soldiers" is a moot point.

Because you may very well become that soldier some day.

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by TheWanderer]

In fact Dragonrider I doubt you know ANYONE who ever saw action in WW2, more than being near the lines. And I pitty us when we do have to see war again, because it is NOTHING like on TV. Which is obviously about how much you know.Posted by Wonderer

What do I know about combat?

I know that I had 2 grandfathers who went to war during WWII, one in the Pacific, who came home with only one leg. The other went to war in Europe... he didnt come home.

I know my uncle went to war in Korea. He was one of the survivors of the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir. He doesnt talk about that.

What do I know about combat?

Do you know where Vidor Texas is? Do you know what it is? It is a small town in East Texas, not far from the Louisiana state line. It is the Texas Headquarters for the Ku Klux Klan. I grew up near there. They dont like "half breeds" or "mud colored people" there.

I know this very well. Why? Because when I was 16, 3 kids there tried to lynch me with a length of clothes line tied to a tree limb. I guess God must have been watching over me, because the limb broke, and I survived, although I lost a number of teeth and had my jaw wired shut for 2 months after they kicked me in the face a number of times.

I know where this place is, and I have been back to visit it a few times. This time, I carry my Colt Defender with me when I visit.

What do I know about combat?

I know that one night 4 large men tried to break our door down in order to gang rape my girlfriend. They werent expecting to find me, and my friend John Moses Browning inside with her. I fired one round at them, missing, and they decided they had other things to do that night.

God must have been watching over us again that night, because neither my girlfriend or I were hurt, and I wasnt forced to kill anyone that night.

What do I know about combat?

I know that I have spent a large sum of money and a good deal of time at Thunder Ranch, where I was taught the ballistic arts along side SWAT officers from across the country. I put myself through physical action that no one would willingly put themselves through. I trained hard, and I trained long, and I hurt myself in the process.

To this day, I spend hundreds of dollars each month, and hours each weekend on the range, ensuring that I am totally familiar with the ballistic arts, and that my skills do not fade from lack of use.

Why did I do this? Because I have had the experiences throughout my life that I have had, and I understand that there are very evil people in the world, who live to inflict pain and suffering. I have done this to ensure that no one inflicts such pain and suffering on my family.

Am I soldier? No, I have never been in uniform, and I dont pretend to be in the same category as those who risk and loose thier lives for America. I do respect those people, as they do indeed deserve our respect.

You are right, ordinary people could well be the next soldier. I think I could well be such, as I have spent much time and effort learning how to survive and defend myself and others.

Ordinary people could be the next soldier. SOME of them anyway.

What do you know of combat?

Wonderer who the hell are you to tell Dragon whom he has in his family that's been in WW2 or have been on the line? Until your wearing the uniform and have went through the necessary training you�re NOT a soldier Wonderer. You sit here and flame Dragon and others because they disagree or don't think the same absurd crap as you do and yet I bet you wouldn't even be able to survive basic training if your life depended on it.

But possible.

Actually people don't always survive BCT and AIT. But most fatalities occur in OSUT.

Wander/Hkot/The Master/Hammerite/FreeMason, you have no right to flame DR. So what, have you served in the army? Have you seen the horror and pain of war? Or do you just hear stories of the accounts like all of us?