Something you probably dont realize

a reply to: onehuman

Methadone is a vile medicine. It can take up to 3 hours to "fully" kick in, but you do start to feel some effects after 20 minutes. Especially if you're in withdrawal from opiates when you take it.

However, it has an extremely long half life and will stay in your system actively for up to 36 hours, and inactively up to 3 times that long. (half-life)

When you go into withdrawal from Methadone as opposed to say, Heroin, it is far worse (IMO). The withdrawal slowly increases in severity over the course of a couple of days, then stays that way for at least a couple of weeks straight. Medications with a short half-life, such as Heroin, have severe withdrawal symptoms but they are much shorter lived.

For example, if you took someone on an equivalent dosage of Heroin and one on Methadone, forced both to have a cold turkey detox, the one who was taking the Heroin would make a much quicker recovery from the withdrawal, all other things aside. He'd be feeling almost over his sickness while the sickness of the Methadone user would just be beginning to get worse, and that user would stay sick for a much longer time. While the former Heroin user is now working at a job with mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms which are lessening, the Methadone user would still be at home for another week or two longer still possibly bedridden with ABSURD amounts of sweating going on.

I mean, the worst sweating you've ever seen or experienced in your life. And it never goes away. (Well, after a couple of months it might, if you quit and stay quit).

The sick thing is, once people get physically dependent on opiates, they rationalize the usage of the Methadone as a legal way to make sure that they do not go into withdrawals on a regular basis, so that they can try to live some sort of normal life. It's also stronger than other opiates, so, if you try to take a dosage of another opiate such as Heroin while on a proper dosage of Methadone, it does almost nothing to absolutely nothing, because the brain is so absurdly saturated by a stonger binding, longer lasting opioid; Methadone.

The unfortunate thing is that people trade a bad addiction for a worse addiction, for the sake of functionality. Worse addiction in the sense of purely the chemicals effecting your receptors. The up-side is the cessation of needle usage which spreads disease and ill health, and also the lack of being in-danger while seeking the drugs (from police as well as predatory people).

It lasts longer so you do not have to think about it or dose it, just once a day.

Just think about what it's doing to your brain in the process, and how you're going to feel one day when you quit.

The truly sad thing is when you remove the drug-seeking, the speaking to other drug-seekers to find the drugs, all the stress and danger that comes with that, and when you remove the lack of going into withdrawal on a daily basis, people truly start to become better productive citizens and improve their lives.

Then one day for whatever reason they can no longer get their dose, and back onto the streets they go, fiending far worse than ever, with a higher cross-tolerance to all opiates and opioids than ever, due to the daily Methadone usage.

The world is # and I decided a while ago to rather be in pain and depression for the rest of my life than on a chemical leash of something with such life-crushing power.

originally posted by: onehuman
how many people are driving around "medicated" on this stuff, it does become a bit scary to think about. I have seen pretty much a full spectrum from the very old, too people taking their kids in with them then getting back in the car and driving off dosed with the kids.

Don't worry about Methadone users too much; the only issue is if your dosage is too high, otherwise it provides more of an even keel as it plugs every single fiend-hole receptor in your brain with a crummy synthetic opioid particle that stays attached ... way too long .. heh.

Those nodding out on the stuff are making their situation far worse in the long run.

But what should be said is, since Methadone is such a terribly nasty chemical, it ramps up your tolerance to opiates faster than any other opiate in existence. So, while they might be nodding off from the daily dose one day, in time they'll surely be screwed as all it does will eventually relieve some pain and make them feel "normal" while under the influence. The Methadone clinics are trained carefully to make sure people don't continue to be over-dosed.

And, some have rules that you can't drive yourself to and from until you've been in the program for a certain amount of time.

Wow, what a bleak and depressing topic.

originally posted by: Razmijix
a reply to: Brotherman

You are correct. Sadly it does happen. Some people go to these clinics for a cheap pain management and some go for help.
Methadone does work. It has helped me tremendously.

I've personally known young people in their 20's, so-called friends, who were never needle-users, but decided to start doing the Methadone program because the cost and lifestyle of fixing illegally was getting to them. Prescription pill-poppers and nasal users of street dope.

There are cases though where the stuff does help people quite a bit.

It's main purpose IMO is to address the social, legal, and health related ills of opioid addiction at the expense of the user.
It gets people off the street, reduces spread of diseases, reduces crime, increases quality of life and interestingly, property value.

(Please don't think I'm talking speculative ish, I only know what I've written from traumatic personal experiences that affect me to the present day)


PS: Thank the Nazis for the invention of Methadone; it was dirt-cheap to make and lasted forever. Truly an opiate of the masses.

a reply to: r0xor

It doesn't work for everyone. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

originally posted by: Razmijix
a reply to: r0xor

It doesn't work for everyone. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

I never joined a Methadone clinic, so I did not have a bad experience specifically with that.

It's more of a personal mentality, what you're willing to accept for the sake of potential improvement.

Almost as if you're trading the concept of true sobriety for a shortcut, one that one day becomes a longcut.

Speaking of which, I've heard a proper tapering of Methadone can take an entire year or longer to do if you want to reduce or prevent many of the long-term withdrawal symptoms.

I also know that if you can't pay your dues to the clinic, or you get in trouble, they taper you to zero over the course of a single 7 day week.

Such nice folks they are

a reply to: r0xor

Completely agree. I am no stranger to heroin or methadone and I know how insidious methadone really is. Anyone I've known that went to a methadone clinic usually relapsed or was just as hooked, if not more so, to the methadone as they were to the heroin or painkillers.

And methadone is easily abused. Some people hold their liquid doses in their mouths, spit them out to sell to desperate methadone addicts later. Not to mention iv'ing it.

Or pair methadone with benzos and try to stay awake, much less drive.

originally posted by: Ashirah
Or pair methadone with benzos and try to stay awake, much less drive.

Two former friends are dead from that exact combination; a father and his son, who was my age, actually. Two weeks apart, overdoses.

My mother also died from a combination of benzos and strong opioids, all prescribed of course, just not Methadone.

Although I will say that if you've gotten yourself into ridiculous levels of addiction trouble, if you're about to die from the stuff, or go to prison for a very long time, and you've got connect-the-dots going up your arm, the Methadone clinic program could save your life.

My gripe is that weak people join it for the wrong reasons, making life worse.

a reply to: r0xor

That's awful, my condolences. My mother finally got off all of her opioids after her glorified dealer had his license pulled by DEA.

I know this isn't the case for all, but many that I've seen or heard from that went to the clinic did it because they lost their 'connect', not to cognizantly quit or manage their heroin or painkiller addictions.

originally posted by: Ashirah
a reply to: r0xor

That's awful, my condolences. My mother finally got off all of her opioids after her glorified dealer had his license pulled by DEA.

I hope my mother's death influenced a similar outcome, only because they are truly glorified dealers. I drove her once to her appointment, and when she came back to the car, she thought it was so funny that one of the songs that they played in the office over the system like they usually do in a waiting room was Curtis Mayfield's "Pusher Man".

They had increased some of their security and paranoia towards the end of her life though, as I remember her telling me that they had began mandatory urine testing of all the pain management patients to help comply with feds.

Your story warmed my heart a little though, truly glad to hear it doesn't always go the same way.

The effects of all kinds of medications is complex with much variation amongst individuals with different levels of exposure and tolerances. Placing focus on the drivers cognition and driving capability is important. For the driver to reduce their likelihood of an accident they must have good levels of concentration and coordination. If someone has been addicted to opiates or some other dependent medication for a long time then I do prefer them on the road in their normal state rather than if they where going through withdrawals and struggling with everything.

As for how the law and the insurance companies deal with all this if an accident does occur is very much a case by case basis, unfortunately the system can be prejudice and blind to the realities of life at times.

My clinic is a pay clinic, I would fit into the pain management description you speak of. I have been at the same dose for 2 years and I promise you this... If someone is getting high on Methadone they are using something else, commonly a benzo if they are "nodding" or they are using heroin or some other strong opiate with it. There are many myths and stigmas that come along with the clinic, THANK YOU for joining in on the ignorance! For me, it makes me well, and that is it... Period... Have you ever taken it? Have you ever had Parkinsons and Ankylosis with a Dr. prescribing Opiates for 5 years, and then tell you the AMA set new standards and this will be the last time I give you this med, then close his practice and move out of state, to leave you sick with withdrawls and so much pain you can't get out of bed, and you don't know how you will be able to support your kids?! Have you? Did you research the halflife and absorbtion rates of Methadone, to justify you calling me out for putting the public in danger on my trips on the road home from my "dose"?

originally posted by: wastedown
Have you ever taken it? Have you ever had Parkinsons and Ankylosis with a Dr. prescribing Opiates for 5 years, and then tell you the AMA set new standards and this will be the last time I give you this med, then close his practice and move out of state, to leave you sick with withdrawls and so much pain you can't get out of bed, and you don't know how you will be able to support your kids?! Have you? Did you research the halflife and absorbtion rates of Methadone, to justify you calling me out for putting the public in danger on my trips on the road home from my "dose"?

I think the OP didn't consider all of that, just like most people never really know what it's like to have to live with or experience things others are dealing with. The only frame of reference would be similar experiences involving the same types of things. If you don't have that frame, you're kind of talking about a movie you've never even seen the preview for, in a way.

There is a valid concern and people should be worried about other drivers. Around here, ever so often, someone .. somehow seems to drive their car right smack into the front of a 7-11. It's usually an elderly person, but they don't always say that, you just hear it or see it on the news.

I don't think those people are necessarily patients of the clinic (lol, conspiracy theories..), but rather, on something, some kind of strong medication.

I think my point has been taken a bit out of context. No matter how you look at this, as a driver for the public, people place their lives in my hands every day. I have to constantly be aware of my surroundings and other drivers. Lol a fine trick that is in itself driving in Rhode Island. A state that is usually in the top 5 of the worse drivers next to Mass..

I take this responsibility rather seriously and I think as a passenger you would want me too. To say I don't understand what these people are going through is a bit extreme. I drive many of them every day and I'm pretty well aware of their lives and what they have to go through including the hoops they have to jump through just to get these doses.

Something I didn't mention is the fact that I am on my own pain medications. I do not take them before I go to work or while I am working. This means I can go for 8 hours or more in pain. Yes, that in itself can be distracting. Still though, it is my responsibility to be as clear headed as possible when I am on the road. With or without passengers.

In a perfect world everyone would be sober and drug free on the road, but we know that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Trust me I am no angel. I come from the days where open container was still legal and let's just say I drove a lot in the early 70s.

No matter what kind of in depth study I were to do into the methadone itself, it still won't take away from the fact that if you drive away from the clinic after being dosed, alert and wide awake or not, you are still driving under the influence.

I am sorry for anyone that has to go through this vicious and ugly never ending cycle. It is just so screwed up all the way around. I am not pointing fingers. I was merely pointing out something that I wasn't aware of myself until I started this job long ago, and figured others weren't aware of it either. I'm pretty confident in the fact that nothing will actually be done about it any time soon. Just trying to make people aware is all. Maybe someone might offer a friend a ride now if they know they are in this kind of program. If we save one life with this post, don't you think it was worth it?

a reply to: onehuman

A lot of these people that get it for pain management actually go to work after their dose. Which means others are working along side them probably oblivious that the person working next to them is legally high.

The thing is, if the people who are taking it really need it then it makes them act "normal". (whatever the hell normal is) Chronic pain is a bitch to live with.

People are driving around on a myriad of substances, everything from hard on pills to Heroin. America does consume the vast majority of the worlds pharmaceuticals. Everyone is high on something whether you like it or not.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: onehuman

And the taxpayers fund it all.

Absolutely NOT true!

The majority pay out of pocket or health insurance.

originally posted by: dezertdog

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: onehuman

And the taxpayers fund it all.

Absolutely NOT true!

The majority pay out of pocket or health insurance.

In Rhode Island and Massachusetts, I can guarantee that most drug rehabs and clinics receive tremendous public monies, I can't imagine it is much different anywhere else.