Britain’s Secret History: The Irish Holocaust

a reply to: beansidhe

I was at secondary school in the late 80's- early 90's and it wasn't taught in any detail. There was a famine - folk emigrated was the gist of it

I went, sometimes, to a Comprehensive in North East England and left school in 1982.
History was about the only subject I had any real interest in.

We were taught in great detail everything about the 'Irish Potato Famine'.
We were presented with the facts, nothing was glossed over, and we were encouraged to draw our own conclusions and opinions on it.

With all my Grandparents being Irish it struck a bit of a chord with me.

I had a great history teacher, who was English as they come.
He tried his best to guide me in many things, one of the few teachers I had any respect for.
I still see him occasionally and have the odd pint with him, (and I still call him Mister despite his constant requests to call him by his first name).

The ruling classes of the time had very little regard for the common folk of every nationality - nothing much has changed there.
The vast majority of the landlords who exercised the policies that resulted in the 'famine' were English, and to a slightly lesser extent, Scottish and Irish protestants.

Definitely not the greatest moment in English history.
But we can't change what has happened in the past, we can only learn the lessons that history teaches us and try our best to ensure that they aren't repeated.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Growing up we were taught it wasn't the English colonialists who poisoned farms...

It was the Irish at fault because of their "harvest technique"...

First I've ever heard of that reasoning...

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Yeah...

After thousands of years the Irish somehow forgot how to farm Potatoes...

I would be very surprised if the Irish had been farming potatoes for "thousands of years"...

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
If I didn't have Irish ancestors and family I'd never have found out the truth, I'd have been force fed the establishment version.

Surprised you learned it in school Ewok, we didn't.

Evidently, you didn't learn much at school at all - perhaps a damning indictment of your ability to listen than against the "establishment" for not teaching it. For the record, we covered this off when I was at Secondary School in the 1990's.

Anyhoo, as for the OP, it was hardly a deliberate "holocaust" - it was as a result of a complex set of events set in motion many years prior, from the Corn Laws, land distribution and not least, the presence of a disease which crippled production of the staple crop of Ireland.

Whilst not entirely without blame, the British Government did try to help and started off quite well, but political infighting in Westminster stifled the response later and exasperated the problem.

It's worth noting that Ireland had experienced famine in the late 1700's and the Government response then was far more effective - they banned food exports, prices dropped and starvation was averted, while ignoring pleas by the Irish merchants to lift the ban.

Unfortunately for the Irish peasants (and it has to be highlighted that the Irish merchant and landed classes did very well out of the continued export of food) there was no ban on food exports in the 1840's famine because of merchant pressure to keep their cash crops flowing.

So, while I am quite happy to acknowledge this happened, it is entirely unfair and inaccurate to declare this a "holocaust" or to imply it was deliberate or entirely the result of "the British".

a reply to: Freeborn

The vast majority of the landlords who exercised the policies that resulted in the 'famine' were English, and to a slightly lesser extent, Scottish and Irish protestants. Definitely not the greatest moment in English history. But we can't change what has happened in the past, we can only learn the lessons that history teaches us and try our best to ensure that they aren't repeated.

Yep, the Reformation is another bit of 'fun' history. We shouldn't forget what happened or attempt to minimise it to make ourselves feel better, in case it happens again, I agree. I keep expecting George Osbourne to announce some sort of Victorian-workhouse idea as an 'austerity measure' for the unemployed - urghh.

originally posted by: beansidhe
We shouldn't forget what happened or attempt to minimise it to make ourselves feel better, in case it happens again

I agree it is important to teach our history as I experienced myself in the UK school system. Others have also expressed they were taught the same so it is clearly no secret as the OP title reads.
I do not need to feel 'better' about anything though, it was nothing to do with me or my family. No merchants importing Irish foodstuffs, or people in positions of power in my bloodline from back then, just poor Cornish tin miners.
Even if there were I wouldn't feel bad, still had nothing to do with me.

Heck I'd be clinically depressed if I started feeling bad for all the horrible things Britain has done to other countries in history. All that matters is now, and whatever we can do for the good, now.
...it was only five years ago when Britain bailed out Ireland with a £7 Billion loan, we are friends again, let's remember that.

a reply to: stumason

Well written reply but I take Schiller's Institute report over any comment from members in here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting anyone's ability or logic, or even knowledge for that matter. But as you can see, Schiller's report is extensively documented, a lot of historical factors and records, references and at the end just a logical connecting the dots.

As for english, they considered irish as second class citizens. Actually even worst. In the words of:

The British historian Charles Kingsley, who accompanied the Queen on her gracious and glorious visit, wrote:

"I am daunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that 100 miles of horrible country. I don't believe they are our fault. I believe that there are not only many more of them than of old, but that they are happier, better and more comfortably fed and lodged under our rule than they ever were. But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much."

While another more "realistic" official writes:

However, Lord Clarendon, the British viceroy in Ireland during the famine, saw the situation more clearly. He wrote to Prime Minister Lord John Russell: "I don't think there is another legislature in Europe [other than the British] that would coldly persist in this policy of extermination."

So yeah, whether we like it or not, it was holocaust and by the hand of British.

a reply to: Telos

Better called capatlisms secret history. Its nothing new and still happening today. Economic warfare has killed more people than war in the mordern era.

purp

a reply to: Telos

Well, you are being selective in that source from Charles Kingsley, who was an outspoken critic of Roman Catholicism and a blatant racist - there were plenty of others who disagreed with him quite publicly too.

As I said, the Government in London did try to assist (and evidently did very well some 70 years prior by staving off famine then) but, as with today, the problem with a "democracy" is a tendency to take too damn long to do anything and even then it's usually a "compromise" which pleases no one.

I was just disputing this was a planned event - as implied by your use of the term "holocaust" - it was much more complex than that.

And, for the record, I have Irish ancestry, so I'm sympathetic to their plight - I'm just not going to buy into the "it's all the English's fault" mantra that is prevalent in the Celtic nations. It's quite often glossed over, but much of the protestant settlement of Ireland was actually by Scots, not English, especially in the North which still causes problems to this day which the "English" get the blame for.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Telos

Well, you are being selective in that source from Charles Kingsley, who was an outspoken critic of Roman Catholicism and a blatant racist - there were plenty of others who disagreed with him quite publicly too.

I'm not being selective. I just used few line to illustrate my point and I didn't think I'd need to use more of the material assuming that since I've posted the link, people who are participating in this thread should have read it by now. You can say selective about someone using lines that fit his/her opinion without showing the whole material. But in this case I've inserted a link which makes the report public. So I don't think selective is the right word.

At the same time we're trying to have a discussion based on historical facts and testimonies. The scope of this thread is not a witch hunt or make every english feel bad about the atrocities committed by British during history. The way you coming off in your replies makes it sound like you're taking it a bit personal.

a reply to: Telos

Not personal, no, but also not happy at having the entirety of the blame placed upon my country with the wording you have chosen to make out like it was a deliberate policy of extermination.

There is "debating historical facts" and outright misrepresentation to further an agenda. It seems to me like you trying to make out like it was a purposeful genocide.

a reply to: Ridhya

The British were more racist than the Nazis,

The modern take on genocide/ethnic superiority came out of the British Tavistok Institute, BTW Hitler got his ideas from there.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Hmmm - unless you're talking about another Tavistock Institute, I think you're confused. At the earliest, it was formed in 1922 as far as I can tell. I fail to see how Hitler was inspired by them as Mein Kampf came out in 1925 (written before then)

Do you have a link I can look at?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Telos

Not personal, no, but also not happy at having the entirety of the blame placed upon my country with the wording you have chosen to make out like it was a deliberate policy of extermination.

Not my wording, Schiller's wording.

There is "debating historical facts" and outright misrepresentation to further an agenda. It seems to me like you trying to make out like it was a purposeful genocide.

I don't have an agenda. Once again, I did bring in the thread the whole material. Is there for everyone to read. If it's deemed a genocide, those are the conclusion of an Institute in Washington.

a reply to: Telos

I have read that article here and it couldn't have been a more biased and loaded piece of crap, for example comparing the "English policies" (when actually it was the British Government) to Nazi policies of extermination for example.

His constant referral, in fact, to "the English" and also other comments about modern society betray a blatant bias so forgive me if I don't take his article for much.

It also totally ignores the measures that were tried, the massive political fallout in Westminster as a result which destroyed the Whig party and ended many a career for failing to deal with it properly (there were huge critics in Parliament for the Government's mishandling of it) and the huge changes brought about in the legislation (such as the repeal of the Corn Laws for example) that led to the problem in the first place.

So, again, I totally reject the notion this was a "holocaust" and in any way planned by the British Government. It was a sequence of events which, when not properly dealt with, led to the catastrophe. Again, as I pointed out, a similar situation was averted very successfully in the 1700's.

It gets a lot worse than that. The Irish were sold as slaves by the English and in fact were valued at a fraction of the price of Africans. Cross breeding was used to breed a more profitable slave.
www.globalresearch.ca...

History is written by the victors. That's why you don't let the entitlement mentality dictate what you're going to do. They are creating a trap for the entitled as we speak. You learn from the truth and make plans with insight from the past. This way you don't starve when they put some diabolical plan in place.

The great potato famine was taught to me from ancestors and college. Nothing was told of it in high school. It is what it is. I learned about the American Indian in the same way. I'm Irish and American Indian myself. History is indeed written by the victors.

PS: I can grow food like it's no bodies business now. I still like potatoes.

originally posted by: wes_dublin
It gets a lot worse than that. The Irish were sold as slaves by the English and in fact were valued at a fraction of the price of Africans. Cross breeding was used to breed a more profitable slave.
www.globalresearch.ca...

Well there you're talking about a dark period of British history when there were actual Wars between Protestants and Catholics, (often as extensions of other conflicts on the continent) including the English Civil War which saw the monster Cromwell put in charge - he was cruel to everyone, not least the Irish. It was also common up until the 19th century to send convicts to the colonies, be they English, Scots, Welsh or Irish.

I'm Irish and I've lived here all my life (Co. Kildare) I remember back in 5th class (age 10/11 primary school education so what ever your equivalent is) we studied Irish history in detail and the famine was one of them. Focus was maitained on the fact that it was due to the potato blight and nothing about British interference. I have only begun to learn about it in the past few years.
When I was in second level education we studied Irish history great detail for leaving certificate level (state exams) however there was nothing on the curriculum about the famine only Home Rule, The Easter Rising, War of Independence etc. The Famine was not a part of any of the state curriculum at the time. (2009).

And I'm a little pi**ed about the fact that Channel 4 (British television channel) creating a comedy show about the Famine/Genocide.

originally posted by: eire91
And I'm a little pi**ed about the fact that Channel 4 (British television channel) creating a comedy show about the Famine/Genocide.

I can only apologise for that, but C4 often do TV shows (both factual and comedy) which are nothing short of inflammatory rubbish, from "100 Days of UKIP", to "Cannabis Live", to "Benefits Street" - they are all designed to elicit a desired response..

It's quite ironic, actually. C4 was set up as the "anti-establishment" TV channel but it seems more these days it tries to protect the establishment and hold the country back with garbage.

Now I know the true origins of the burning rage of my heritage. The enslavement and genocide of my ancestor's.

a reply to: Gh0stwalker

If you want to believe biased, one sided garbage, sure. I would recommend you do you're own research into the famine and you'll see it wasn't a genocide.

(And I will point out again, I have Irish ancestry, so they're mine too)