Childless Parents

......you know the ones. The 20 year old, with no kids, no experience raising them, [ or they had a little brother or sister, so that makes them an authority ] and they have their "informed" opinion about how you should raise yours. "Well, the study said 67%......" "The polls say that 72%..."
THIS parent, who has raised 3 kids, one of which is Autistic, says you 100% need to S...T...F..U and stay out of it till you do have several years experience raising kids.
I Don't Care what Mommy and Daddy did, that's one set of parents, not a guide to parenting.
I Don't Care what you think, what your opinion is or what you would do in the same situation. "If that were me I'd...." No, you probably wouldn't! You don't know what you would do, because You don't have kids!.

You have ZERO experience getting up at 2 am to feed and change a baby. Or have warm baby puke running down the back of your shoulder after that. Or having a baby pee in your face, when you took his diaper off a little too soon, or the cool air makes him want to pee again. This time straight up at you. You don't know what it's like to have to clean a baby, after they've got a hand in what's in their diaper and smear it all over themselves, their crib, the blankets, the wall AND YOU when you start cleaning it up.

You have no idea what it's like to stay up all night because they have a fever. Or listen for the slightest sound from their room, pole vault out of bed and run in to see if they're choking on mucus, heart doing a Neil Peart impression. [ The YYZ solo for you fellow fans ] You don't know what it's like to have to "baby proof" a whole house. Or go through a room, inspecting every inch before you put them down, to make sure there are no little things lying around for them to stick in their mouths and choke on. You don't know the endless hours of potty training. Or the terrifying experiences you'll have when they start learning to walk. Or all the scrapes and scabs they'll have when they do learn.
You think because you baby sat for your little brother or sister a few times, you know what it's like to be a parent and that gives you the right to tell the rest of us we're doing it wrong.
No.
You Don't.
Till you have one and they're at least a few years old....stay out of it. Your opinion doesn't count.

a reply to: DAVID64

Good rant.

Respectfully, I lived with friends that had babies and I helped raise them. I got to experience everything they did.

Except affording them…

I also think that the way your parents raised you is going to have significant impact on how you raise yours.

And I agree with you, babies don't come with manuals.

Where does constructive criticism fit into all of this? Just because I haven't lived it doesn't mean I don't understand.

Very empathetic and intelligent people don't always need experience to offer good advice. I am an analyzer of whatever is in front of me and can easily find ways to make a situation more efficient. So well in fact, I get paid to do it.

Stop surrounding yourself with idiots or refrain from sharing in a way that shows angst, burden, or stress. When people see or hear that, they naturally want to give advice or help. Don't set yourself up to be bombarded with statistics or bad advice by complaining.

Not that you are.

originally posted by: DAVID64
......you know the ones. The 20 year old, with no kids, no experience raising them, [ or they had a little brother or sister, so that makes them an authority ] and they have their "informed" opinion about how you should raise yours. "Well, the study said 67%......" "The polls say that 72%..."
THIS parent, who has raised 3 kids, one of which is Autistic, says you 100% need to S...T...F..U and stay out of it till you do have several years experience raising kids.
I Don't Care what Mommy and Daddy did, that's one set of parents, not a guide to parenting.
I Don't Care what you think, what your opinion is or what you would do in the same situation. "If that were me I'd...." No, you probably wouldn't! You don't know what you would do, because You don't have kids!.

You have ZERO experience getting up at 2 am to feed and change a baby. Or have warm baby puke running down the back of your shoulder after that. Or having a baby pee in your face, when you took his diaper off a little too soon, or the cool air makes him want to pee again. This time straight up at you. You don't know what it's like to have to clean a baby, after they've got a hand in what's in their diaper and smear it all over themselves, their crib, the blankets, the wall AND YOU when you start cleaning it up.

You have no idea what it's like to stay up all night because they have a fever. Or listen for the slightest sound from their room, pole vault out of bed and run in to see if they're choking on mucus, heart doing a Neil Peart impression. [ The YYZ solo for you fellow fans ] You don't know what it's like to have to "baby proof" a whole house. Or go through a room, inspecting every inch before you put them down, to make sure there are no little things lying around for them to stick in their mouths and choke on. You don't know the endless hours of potty training. Or the terrifying experiences you'll have when they start learning to walk. Or all the scrapes and scabs they'll have when they do learn.
You think because you baby sat for your little brother or sister a few times, you know what it's like to be a parent and that gives you the right to tell the rest of us we're doing it wrong.
No.
You Don't.
Till you have one and they're at least a few years old....stay out of it. Your opinion doesn't count.

I'd have quite a number tell me how to raise an autistic child, yet they have normal children, or no children. I even had my sister tell my daughter once jokingly, "You don't have to listen to mom!" Yeah, well my daughter took it literal, and when my daughter got out of control and refused to listen, then my sister pulled a, "You better get her under control!" Ummm, how, you told her she didn't have to listen to me? Got a solution for this one? LOL Things were extremely chaotic then, but thankfully have settled since. She's learned to talk to me first, THEN make a comment privately and not in front of my daughter because of how literal she can be.

At the age of 8, I was told my daughter should be institutionalized because she crawled under a restaurant table to pick up a crayon she dropped. But mind you, she had the mental age of 4, which would be borderline behavior for that age. I was told if I REALLY loved my daughter, I would put her on the Kevin Treudeau Olive Oil diet and cure her of her autism, and I must not really love her because I keep putting it off. My daughter must not love me that much because she behaves soooo much better for everybody else, they don't know what MY problem is. *eye roll* Yup, 19 years I heard them all. I've heard comments about my frequent miscarriages and how I must have "deserved" it by my stepmother and stepsister.

originally posted by: eisegesis
Where does constructive criticism fit into all of this? Just because I haven't lived it doesn't mean I don't understand.

Very empathetic and intelligent people don't always need experience to offer good advice. I am an analyzer of whatever is in front of me and can easily find ways to make a situation more efficient. So well in fact, I get paid to do it.

Stop surrounding yourself with idiots or refrain from sharing in a way that shows angst, burden, or stress. When people see or hear that, they naturally want to give advice or help. Don't set yourself up to be bombarded with statistics or bad advice by complaining.

Not that you are.

I think constructive is meant in love and kindness, all around criticism is meant in meanness in general.

a reply to: DAVID64

Star and Flag.
I am pretty sure I know what prompted your valid rant.
I remember hearing one of my three daughters moaning one night shortly after she went to bed. I got to the bottom of the carpeted stairs just in time to see her launch a formidable projectile vomitus down at me. She hit every stairstep, the walls, the landing and the door at the bottom.
Parents earn their stripes.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: DAVID64

Star and Flag.
I am pretty sure I know what prompted your valid rant.
I remember hearing one of my three daughters moaning one night shortly after she went to bed. I got to the bottom of the carpeted stairs just in time to see her launch a formidable projectile vomitus down at me. She hit every stairstep, the walls, the landing and the door at the bottom.
Parents earn their stripes.

I think I was that daughter a loooong time ago. It was tomato soup and I had the stomach flu. My dad made it with milk because we didn't know about the flu and milk back then I don't know. I do know I baptized the living room carpet, the hall carpet, allll the way to the bathroom. LOL Needless to say, tomato soup and I have made a pact to never meet again. LOL

a reply to: DAVID64

Like the well meaning lady at the grocery store who was so disturbed because when ours fell asleep in his carrier he would INSIST on his head flopping over at a disturbing 90 degree angle to the rest of his body.

You know what lady? It freaked us out too the first few times he did it and we did everything to prop his head up, but he always found a way to let it fall back over. By now, he does it so often and without ill effect ... that we just let him do it. He's sleeping, he's happy, and he's quiet.

Funny thing is, my husband and I are childless by choice and one big reason is that I have more than 7 years experience raising several children as a full time nanny, some years live-in [read 24 hours availability] [put me right of the little buggers ].

I know all the bad bits of raising children, I have been there when they were ill and cranky, when they puke and pee on you. I have raised infants up to 7 year olds and [which is the best part] I worked with an Autistic child for almost 2 years, I have probably more experience than some parents, how dare you OP believe that people with no children have no clue?

What about siblings of [disabled] children, who have been there every day, helping, knowing more about them than anyone ever could? How do you even know how deep the critic's knowledge of child rearing is?

I am sure there are new parents who think they know it all, so what? They are all trying to do their best. Maybe they had bad experiences as children with certain ways of parenting and are trying to avoid making the same mistake.

Also why can't you go by how your parents brought you up if you feel that the outcome was a good one?

Maybe people are right when they criticize you, maybe what's wrong in your opinion makes perfect sense to someone else, there is no rule book, there is only experience and common sense, which varies greatly amongst the human animal. Thankfully I say, or we would all be brought up as a herd rather than individuals.

a reply to: eisegesis

Nope. Sorry. Not trying to be mean, or dismissive, but those who don't have the 24/7/365 experience, just don't know. You see snippets of their lives, we get the whole mess, good and bad and have to make decisions from experience, not just spot observation.

a reply to: Hecate666

The problem is that when you are trying very hard as a parent to do things in a consistent manner with your child and you are in a difficult spot because the child is acting out, the last thing any parent needs is for another adult to come along and undermine you, even if they may "know better.'

One of the firmest rules between parents in the house is that one should never undermine the other in front of the child or children. If there is a disagreement over the discipline or how a situation was handled, it ought to take place later in almost every circumstance (obviously if one is beating the snot out of the child or otherwise endangering it, that's different).

It just sets a bad precedent for the person who should be in authority to be undermined.

a reply to: Anyafaj

I've heard comments about my frequent miscarriages and how I must have "deserved" it by my stepmother and stepsister.

I don't know how you kept from spitting in their face. At least.

a reply to: DAVID64

There's a HUGE difference between a non-parent using their limited experience with children to give their sincere advice (which I have done many times) and some arrogant little brat who is just out to drill insults into other people (which I have seen on ATS)...

Please don't lump us all into the heading of "childless parents". When I give advice, it's with the understanding that in my many years on this planet, while I have cared for literally hundreds of children, some over long periods of time, I don't have the experience of being an actual parent (except to the 4-legged variety of child). So, even though I can only imagine what it's like to be a parent, I have a pretty darn good imagination and my advice is given with the care and respect due to parents.

So, I won't STFU. May I suggest that you simply ignore me or others like me, who get under your skin so badly?

a reply to: Hecate666

Maybe people are right when they criticize you, maybe what's wrong in your opinion makes perfect sense to someone else, there is no rule book, there is only experience and common sense, which varies greatly amongst the human animal. Thankfully I say, or we would all be brought up as a herd rather than individuals.

So, if something is right for their child, it must be right for mine? No, the whole point was, people who have little to no experience, telling people how to raise their children on what they think is right. No practical experience, just their uninformed opinions. It would be like me telling a mechanic, with 20 years experience, how to fix cars, when I've never fixed one myself.

a reply to: DAVID64

Yea, i agree. I hear it all the time from 30 somethings who will probably never have children nor get married. I just smile and say yea, knowing that there genes will simply die. Sort of a self policing ideology right?



esiegesis

I am an analyzer of whatever is in front of me and can easily find ways to make a situation more efficient.

Yes and it sounds like your ego makes you think you know what your talking about, even though the point is you don't have any basis for authority right? Humans are not logical, they are not all the same, they do dumb things. Trying to codify, quantify, structure human behavior is simply a study in futility. Especially when three year olds are involved.

Think of this way, have you ever played an RPG where you have to gain experience to progress? As a human, if you don't have any children you will be stuck at level 2. You may be a wonderfully successful level 2, but a level 2 is all you will ever be.

V

Seems having kids isn't as wonderful as everyone pretends.

a reply to: Lysergic

There are compensations ...

But sometimes, it doesn't take a village.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So, if you had came across me and my autistic son, when he was 4 and sitting in the aisle at Wal Mart, would not get up and was crying, you would feel free to give advice? Do you know he's autistic? Do you know why he's doing that? Do you know what happens if someone picks him up and he doesn't want to be touched?
Please, feel free to give advice when you don't know the whole story.

originally posted by: DAVID64
So, if you had came across me and my autistic son, when he was 4 and sitting in the aisle at Wal Mart, would not get up and was crying, you would feel free to give advice?

Absolutely not. I would only give advice about kids if it was asked of me. It's none of my business how people raise their children. I'm hesitant to offer help to little old ladies in the store who can barely move or reach the shelf because I don't want to offend them. I know how sensitive parents can be about their kids.

But when someone starts a thread here asking for advice or opinions on kids, I sometimes oblige, because I have a LOT of experience, even though I don't have kids.

I guess it isn't even about tendering parenting advice so much as the timing.

My husband and I and others talk about parenting all the time with other people, but that never takes place around our kids. When people are talking about parenting or asking for advice on how to handle situations is one thing. Those are the times when you can get the full details of what's going on with both them and their kids.

But when you see someone in the grocery store with child in a full-on screaming fit, wrapped around their leg and the parent is simply dragging the kid along as they shop ... It's easy to assume the kid is throwing a tantrum because the parent refused to buy an item. That was my assumption because it's the only reason my son would possibly stoop to such behavior.

However, for the parents here who have autistic kids ... well, maybe there might have been another reason.

So, would it have done any good for me to stop the lady and politely offer the advice of taking her screaming son out of the store to the car which is what either my husband or I would have done with ours had he suffered such a meltdown (or even approached suffering such a meltdown - I believe the term we use is "not fit for human consumption")? I don't know the particulars of her situation or even if she had a partner with her to continue her shopping while she waited with her screaming kid in the car.

Basically, I probably would have just irritated the heck out of her and wouldn't have helped at all. And I think that's the point of this rant.