Definitive 9/11 guide?

a reply to: Jchristopher5

I saw your message, I'm gonna get in to it. I've gotten a couple other messages with some leads too. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I knew I was gonna have a lot of stuff to get in to and man do I ever lol

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Jchristopher5

I saw your message, I'm gonna get in to it. I've gotten a couple other messages with some leads too. Thanks for taking the time to answer. I knew I was gonna have a lot of stuff to get in to and man do I ever lol

My biggest advise is don't just study 9/11, study the history of flase flags, CIA activity, and nefarious activities orchestrated by the elite, and executed by governments like the US, or especially the US.

Study on Northwoods and Pearl Harbor. Read "Project for a New American Century" to see how 9/11 was called for. Understand how the elite, with their tools like the CIA, will stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to accomplish their goals.

When you do this, you will see how 9/11 is not shocking, as much as if fits in with previous crimes against society.

originally posted by: Shamrock6 Got a reason why the towers should/shouldn't have fallen?

this cannot possibly be a serious question.

a reply to: Jchristopher5

So I only have like 70 years of history to read through? Seems like an afternoon of light reading

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Shamrock6 Got a reason why the towers should/shouldn't have fallen?

this cannot possibly be a serious question.

Thank you for your input

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Jchristopher5

So I only have like 70 years of history to read through? Seems like an afternoon of light reading

Yes, it clearly a very complicated picture. Even Einstein couldn't grasp this in a day. It will take time, but definately ground yourself in the history, and you will see how 9/11 fits in, IMHO.

Well now that the "truther" side has listed their info, here are a few places to find reality.

www.911myths.com...

Extensive collection of media reports, witness statements and FOIA requests about that day. It also examines the majority of the conspiracy theories the reasons behind them and the probable reasons they are not accurate.

www.debunking911.com...

Deals mostly with the destruction of the towers and why they were not demolished.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Detailed examination of the engine debris found at the Pentagon and why it confirms it was a Boeing 757 that hit the building.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Discussing why the "truth" claim that ground effect would prevent Flight 77 from hitting the Pentagon is without merit.

www.wpi.edu...

Interview with one of the engineers who investigated the collapses.

www.architectureweek.com...://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

NOVA episode with one of the individuals who investigated the collapse.

www.luxinzheng.net...

Chinese University Paper on the collapse of the Towers.

www.crisispapers.org...

A skeptic's look....

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
Well now that the "truther" side has listed their info, here are a few places to find reality.

www.911myths.com...

Extensive collection of media reports, witness statements and FOIA requests about that day. It also examines the majority of the conspiracy theories the reasons behind them and the probable reasons they are not accurate.

www.debunking911.com...

Deals mostly with the destruction of the towers and why they were not demolished.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Detailed examination of the engine debris found at the Pentagon and why it confirms it was a Boeing 757 that hit the building.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

Discussing why the "truth" claim that ground effect would prevent Flight 77 from hitting the Pentagon is without merit.

www.wpi.edu...

Interview with one of the engineers who investigated the collapses.

www.architectureweek.com...://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

NOVA episode with one of the individuals who investigated the collapse.

www.luxinzheng.net...

Chinese University Paper on the collapse of the Towers.

www.crisispapers.org...

A skeptic's look....

Changed my mind. I like having my ATS account.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I've sat and thought about if I was a pilot asked/told to 'follow the plan' (take part in the initial conspiracy);

I wouldn't see anyone in my shoes willing to take part.../ of sound mind and body...

...drones are widely used today thanks to the moon being the goal for an astounding accomplishment.

The concrete floorpans (220 story's-worth) and the photos showing how well -all are accounted for? or not-

each floor is only what, 14 feet apart? Why have some disintegrated, and others have not???

14 feet is only 14 feet, where are the piles and piles of floorpans?

I've tied a few sticks of rebar, so I'm not quite the imbecile I may portray -to some.

Interesting question OP.

I do know there is a thread somewhere on ATS that has a huge suggested reading list along with a big list of documentaries that is set out really well which looks at both the conspiracy and the official version of events, so might be wroth you doing a search.

For me if i would to suggest any book to you it would probably have to be the looming tower by Lawrence Wright as a start point and start to build from there. Its also really good to look at the conspiracies as well, I have learned loads about 9/11 but critically examining the credibility of these theories. It also depends on how much you want to know, I have spent years now studding 9/11 I have even done courses on related topics at university level, but if you're wanting more of a general over view then I think the book I mentioned is a really good start. Another thing that i have found is that 9/11 is such a big topic when you start to really explore it you may find that you only have time to really examine one aspect of the attacks. So I for example spent a lot of time just reading up on the history of Islamic extremism, but others may get caught up in engineering or counter-terrorism policy and so on.

9/11 is a really interesting topic, I would definitely recommend you avoid some of the revisionist history that conspiracy theorists try to through at you at first. It always amazes me the number of people who believe conspiracy theories because of all the perceived "holes" in the official story yet they have no real grasp of the official story.

Good luck and please if you have any specific questions send me a U2U!

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: Shamrock6

Do you have kids?

You know your kids. You grow up with them growing up. You hear when they are genuine - every time they are genuine. You know when they want some something, every time they want something. You know when they lie, every time they lie. No "evidence" required.

You can substitute all of that with western democracy and media.

I am not a robot. I cannot train my beliefs to be based on "official" anything let alone what would be admissible in court.

For me on the issue off 911 and other things, is exactly what you said about knowing a lie when a lie is told. Since a very young age I have been able to tell if a big lie is being told, and I always know somehow. Maybe its some sort of universal telepathy, who knows. But no matter where it comes from it has never failed me in lies that affect people and leave a wake of damage in their path. It doesn't matter if the culprits are people I have always liked, supported, or despised. When 9-11 happened I just knew that the Bush cabal deserved to be hunted down like dogs and dragged off to Leavenworth awaiting their deserved death sentence and whoever else carried this out.

Before this I was a Bush supporter, but that was before he said he wasn't going to raise taxes (having said that, I wasn't quite ready to call him a mass murderer, that is, until he committed the act of showcasing to all the world what a true pile of garbage he was and still is. He will vehemently continue to defend his lie most like until death, but if he is wise, he better not wait until after he passes on, although that is none of my affair, and I am not judging him in that manner.

Saw a missile hit the pentagon in a video on the news, and then 5 minutes later it was never shown or mentioned again, and anyone claiming to have seen this on television was ostracised and rideculed quite violently. I saw a lot of folks calling in on talk shows mention it, and they were violently ostracised and insulted by all the hosts, but perhaps FCC licenses are more important to our hosts of the airwaves than getting the truth.

And when big fat lies are told, the liars ALWAYS forcefully warn the public about not listening to any crazy conspiracy theories, they rant, warn and threaten because they know the are the scum of the century and they can't tolerate anyone accusing them of the truth.

These people are so stupid they think they can FORCE people to believe a big lie just because they are who they are.

I heard yesterday and haven't checked it out for myself yet that some people who were listed as dying on one of the flights had already been dead several years. Like a lot of voters these days.

No one, and I mean NO ONE can tell me a (big) lie and have me buy it. It has to be a pretty big whopper that affects a lot of people relatively, and leaves wakes of damage, sadness, and evil glee in it's path. It's a gift that I don't always mention to people, because they are happier living in their own version of reality, and telling some people the truth seems to do more damage than good sometimes. This means I often just go along with some of these things for awhile and figure people will learn eventually, or in their next life perhaps.

The free fall of the buildings reminds me of shaped charges blowing upwards so they don't destroy the charge below it so it can continue like dominoes. Very ingenious except for the fissionable isotopes left behind. Consider if this is the truth, then it shows the collosal arrogance and psychopathy levels of these people.

When a big lie is told just like this, it has an official pattern of recognition. They probably use some sort of checklist to get their story straight, but liars have to be alot smarter than the truth in order to not F IT UP!

You have to be the perfect con, and the greatest story creator, or to put it simply, a better fiction writer than the best fiction writer because you want everyone to belive that your story, even though it is a total work of fiction, to be believed by EVERYONE.

Guess what? They suck at fiction. The truth only requires reporting all the facts, assuming all the facts actually occurred.
These people are going to eventually answer for this in a very big, and sad way. And every lie will be exposed.

This is how I understand that 9-11 DID NOT happen the way it is officially told. Even a monkey could see these buffoons as liars, and would gang storm them in a crap throwing contest, and the monkeys would win. They already did win, but the liars are too self seving to know it or care.

I think I'll stop now before I really get carried away. I hope I addressed some of things you were looking for, but obviously this topic is highly charged, and it is easy to drift.

PS: A lot of the little lies about this that are used to support even bigger lies appear as if they are coming from a military grade top secret "How to commit incredible black ops false flags and have the public asking for your eternal love and gratitude" manual, because they are showing a pattern of deployment in many other issues, and like all patterns, you see them being used by the people you already know as LIARS, and not being used by other people in government, who don't know jack about what actually happened, but go with the flow, so they can keep everything they cherish in this world.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
Well now that the "truther" side has listed their info, here are a few places to find reality.

www.911myths.com...

Extensive collection of media reports, witness statements and FOIA requests about that day. It also examines the majority of the conspiracy theories the reasons behind them and the probable reasons they are not accurate.
NOVA episode with one of the individuals who investigated the collapse.

www.luxinzheng.net...

Chinese University Paper on the collapse of the Towers.

www.crisispapers.org...

A skeptic's look....

Everything you mention has huge holes in it, but I definitely will not waste my time or yours any further by telling you that your wrong. If you really want the pure unadulterated truth, you won't need ridecule or inuendo labels. It appears you don't wish to be bothered with the truth, because your mind has been made up for you already, like a cookie cutter.

If I was in those big places where these lies are being announced, do you think I would dare speak up and call them out? I am that guy, and they know they can throw people out to the dogs, but they can't do that forever.

This is the same thing that those in our government do to the people. They take you by the hair, and shake you violently with "their" truth and force you by sheer peer pressure, by proxy, or by violent reprisal TO BELIEVE OR forever wear their imaginary "dunce cap" they have made you appear to be wearing, by how they speak to "disbelievers"

This doesn't work on honorable men and women who can't be bought, can't be bullied, and are only accepting the truth.

This means THE REAL TRUTH, not the Truth that was constructed and put to the people to accept or be publically humiliated.
The pathological liars are so proud of themselves and so filled with their own personal aura of sheer power that they have the GALL to think that they can create TRUTH out of fould smelling sludge and force everyone, even people much smarter than them because they are so important, who will challenge them publically? Many who have done that are DEAD.


And I am not targeting you out of disrespect because you think the way that you do, rather I am trying to shake you into thinking honestly, just as you believe you are shaking me and others into thinking honestly. Just remember, when people defend lies, they have a mountains more work in front of them, than the truth does, and often when the originating lies are told, the people telling them are always going over their own story to prepare in case they missed something, and they always have a ready answer they knew was coming. Too many cover stories to cover the other cover stories that had a few big oops in them.
They are constantly patching the mortar, but the rain of truth keeps pooring in, and will soon wash away their house of SAND.
Maybe we can call them "Sandbaggers" (The official story believers I mean).
Peace to you!



(in a hurry, sorry for spelling errors, (and what I'm sure you will feel are factual errors) Can there be 2 truths? Those telling these big offical stories have an answer for every single mistake they make, or cast blame on to someone elses factual error. They can even say it was "misreported earlier, and make up a fresh new lie that fits the ongoing work of fiction.

PATTERNS that pathological lovers of their own facts the way they want people to see it as happening. This is what official story tellers are always doing, and it leaves a wake of sociological mistakes.

The truth would not need so much BS

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Go ahead, keep your blinders on. You really should research just how much money is being made by people pushing "Truther" theories.

I'm in the same position as the OP. I want to look at 9/11 from all angles.

My main enquiry is about motive. If 9/11 was an inside job, can someone explain what the motives are?
I guess I need a good starting point to understand motives regarding 9/11. Anyone help?

Please be patient. I know such a question is probably silly to those who have researched or studied 9/11 for years, but for those just starting to scratch the surface, there is so much to get our heads around.

a reply to: AlmostRosey

I guess I need a good starting point to understand motives regarding 9/11. Anyone help?

Sure!

I think I would suggest looking up a book The Secret History of Al-Qaida by Abdel Bari Atwan he gives some really good details of the ideology behind those who were responsible for the attacks that is pretty good for somebody just starting out looking for a bit of back ground on motivations. I also think a good understanding of the teachings of a guy called Sayyid Qutb and a understanding of Salafist Wahhabisim is a good start before you start getting into other radical teachings.

Finally a good look at what happened in 1979 to the Islamic world is also quite a interesting starting point in history I think for the radical brand of Islam we see to day.

Any questions shoot me a U2U

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: AlmostRosey

I guess I need a good starting point to understand motives regarding 9/11. Anyone help?

Sure!

I think I would suggest looking up a book The Secret History of Al-Qaida by Abdel Bari Atwan he gives some really good details of the ideology behind those who were responsible for the attacks that is pretty good for somebody just starting out looking for a bit of back ground on motivations. I also think a good understanding of the teachings of a guy called Sayyid Qutb and a understanding of Salafist Wahhabisim is a good start before you start getting into other radical teachings.

Finally a good look at what happened in 1979 to the Islamic world is also quite a interesting starting point in history I think for the radical brand of Islam we see to day.

Any questions shoot me a U2U

Thank you very much for your reply and book suggestions. I appreciate it. So will that material help me understand how there may have been motives for an "inside job"? I've heard many tout reasons for the official theory having holes, but no real understanding (on my part) on why the government would have benefited.

Thanks again

a reply to: AlmostRosey

Those sources will give you nothing on possible motivations for why any branch of the US Government would want to kill almost 3000 Americans in such a tragically spectacular way. There are quite a lot of idea's behind what may have motivated them, a good documentary series called "the Power of Nightmares" is probably another good one to look up as it gives you a idea of the motivation for the terrorists but also goes into the neoconservitive movement. Form the documentary you can infer some possible motivations that the neocons may have had.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: AlmostRosey

Those sources will give you nothing on possible motivations for why any branch of the US Government would want to kill almost 3000 Americans in such a tragically spectacular way. There are quite a lot of idea's behind what may have motivated them, a good documentary series called "the Power of Nightmares" is probably another good one to look up as it gives you a idea of the motivation for the terrorists but also goes into the neoconservitive movement. Form the documentary you can infer some possible motivations that the neocons may have had.

Thanks for your help! When you first start looking into this topic, you realise there's so much to it. So many conflicting opinions and theories. For someone new looking into it, it's hard to know where to start - or what to believe!

According to the truth movement, this is what really happened on 9/11.

Everyone will eventually know that al-Qaeda never existed, acted under the control of the US Government and acted on its own initiative but with the passive complicity of the US Government to hijack planes, not hijack planes and try but fail to hijack planes, that the US Government, a small rogue element within the US Government, and Mossad operating without the knowledge of the US Government crashed the planes into the towers under remote control, crashed different planes into the towers undeer remote control, didn't crash any planes into the towers but projected holograms of the planes crashing into the towers, and didn't crash or project anything but convinced everyone that planes hit the towers by showing it to them on TV, after which the towers were blown up by explosives that made lots of explosions that everybody heard, weakened by thermite silently which explains why nobody heard any explosions, blown up by nuclear weapons in the cellar which started collapses from the top, and turned entirely to dust by energy beams from space which is why there was no debris, and that the debris pile was then kept hot for months by thermite that hadn't reacted when it all reacted to bring the towers down, and all the steel that wasn't there was immediately taken to China which is why the steel recovered shows signs of explosives, melting and dustification, and a plane, a missile, a different plane and a hologram all crashed into the Pentagon except that it was only one of them, or pulled up at the last second and flew over the Pentagon, leaving a neat 12 foot hole that caused 90 feet of the bit of the wall that had recently been reinforced to collapse, and another plane was shot down at Shanksville then landed in Cleveland leaving no wreckage at Shanksville that was spread out over too large an area to be from a crash even though it didn't exist. That's what really happened, and some day everyone will figure out how obvious it all is.

911 was a Mossad Job.