Should Western Leaders show up for Russia's celebration of the Great Patriotic war?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Tough action actually STOPS war and doesn't start it.

A silly statement.

That kind of reasoning undoubtedly contributed to the outbreak of the First World War.

I for one think the Russian sacrifice in the Second World War should be commemorated and remembered and not be politicised.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
This is what happened last time after WWII finished when the Allies appeased the Soviet Union...

en.wikipedia.org...

The Baltic states were seized and dominated for 4 decades. 'Sanctions' were used back then too, just like in Crimea today.

Amazingly enough Russians still learn in their text books that the Baltics held 'revolutions' and joined the Soviet Union after WWII. Pretty funny actually, except it's true.

I think the topic is should our leaders act like adults and attend a memorial you are not on topic at all.

I find travelling to Moscow to stand beside Putin as he marches his best military weapons through Red Square appeasement. Thus my comment on where appeasement of Russia leads.

As always, feel free to alert a mod if you don't like a comment.

originally posted by: Kram09
I for one think the Russian sacrifice in the Second World War should be commemorated and remembered and not be politicised.

And you think the Red Square parades of tanks, missiles and military men are simply a commemoration without any politics going on?

Sure...

a reply to: Dimithae

Damn right they should.

WW2 would probably have been lost or at least seriously prolonged, without Russias manpower and the Eastern Front.

We owe the Russians respect for that, and bridges are built from respect.

Snub it and it is an insult to approx 8-10 million military war dead (out of 14 million allied deaths in total) and 12 million civilans.

Yes!

Those brave men and women did just as much to save the world from hitler than the US or UK troops.

Without there sacrifices we nay not have stood a chance.


What there leaders did after that victory be it stalin or putin is irrelevent.
It should not be about them but there brave sacrifices fighting hitler,

a reply to: noeltrotsky

This isn't about appeasement.This is about showing respect to those who laid down their lives and fought to rid the world of Nazism. This IS bigger than your hate for Putin or Russia or anything else.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
This is what happened last time after WWII finished when the Allies appeased the Soviet Union...

en.wikipedia.org...

The Baltic states were seized and dominated for 4 decades. 'Sanctions' were used back then too, just like in Crimea today.

Amazingly enough Russians still learn in their text books that the Baltics held 'revolutions' and joined the Soviet Union after WWII. Pretty funny actually, except it's true.

This is not about stupid politics or who did what.


Its about honoring the dead who died fighting hitler.


They had nothing todo with the actions of Putin or stalins annexing of eastern Europe, being dead and all.



Its about honoring them not petty politics.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I would hate to think,that we in this day and age are so small minded,that we would let those 50-80 million people who died on both sides of that war,died in vain.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Western leaders should celebrate the victory over the Axis powers by Sanctioning ALL Russian products and banning ALL Russians from entry to their countries. Russian TV channels should be removed from delivery systems.

When Russia returns Crimea to Ukraine and leaves them alone then they can join the international group of nations again.

Extreme? You bet! If this was done when the Baltics were grabbed after WWII instead of the stupid minor sanctions that were imposed then millions would not have had to suffer under Russian Imperialism for decades.

Tough action actually STOPS war and doesn't start it.

I'm coming around to the thought that, most of what Putin is saying and doing , is the act of a desperate man. He's been putin his hand in the till...forgive the pun . The drug and money laundering goes right to the top . The western leaders have no qualms with the Russian people , but might feel very uneasy going into the lions den. Especially the UK's Cameron, where its accepted that he Putin was implicated in the poison pellet death. Guaranteeing their safety would be the top priority for their security, and it might be that it cant be guaranteed. Especially as relations with North Korea , and other dicey states will have a presence there.

The Soviets won the war in Europe. If it wasn't for the Russians and their bravery the UK and the rest of Europe today would be ruled by the Nazis. As a Brit I honour the USSR for what it did to make me live....................Thanks USSR. If our leaders don't attend then I appologise, it is not the will of the people

a reply to: Dimithae

Has this Proxy war really ever ended and will it ever?

Sailors of H. M. S. London who fought at Inkerman (1854)
Sebastopol in the Crimea was the great Russian naval arsenal on the Black Sea. A combined assault by British, French and Turkish troops resulted in the reduction of Sebastopol and led to the Treaty of Paris of 27 April 1856, guaranteeing the independence of the Ottoman Empire. By Admiralty Order the Crimea Medal was awarded to sailors and marines present during the campaign, between 17 September 1854 (the first landing at Eupatoria) and 9 September 1855 (when the allies secured Sebastopol). Her Majesty's Ship London, a 90-gun sailing ship, took part in the assault. Four clasps to this medal were awarded to the men present in the actions at Sebastopol itself, Inkerman, Balaklave (Balaclava) and (the sea of) Azoff. This is the roll for the sailors of the ship actually present at the battle of Inkerman, on 5 November 1854, where the Russian troops made an ultimately unsuccessful attack on the allied army.

www.theoriginalrecord.com...

originally posted by: anonentity
Especially as relations with North Korea , and other dicey states will have a presence there.

This is an excellent point. How many World leaders want to stand beside Putin and his new friend Kim Jong-un?

originally posted by: crazyewok
Its about honoring them not petty politics.

You should watch a march through Red Square someday. It's ALL about politics. I'm sure RT will broadcast it...take the time and judge for yourself.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I would hate to think,that we in this day and age are so small minded,that we would let those 50-80 million people who died on both sides of that war,died in vain.

And which country in Europe has used military force to conquer territory since WWII? Which country has spit on the lessons from WWII?

Let me give you a hint....it's capital is where your parade will be held.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: anonentity
Especially as relations with North Korea , and other dicey states will have a presence there.

This is an excellent point. How many World leaders want to stand beside Putin and his new friend Kim Jong-un?

Exactly sh&^%$ sticks.

Plus it might be said that little Kim countrymen, are the main producer of undetectable American currency , so why wouldn't Putin have a friend already there to build up his foreign exchange.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

This ceremony is ONLY about those that fought and/or died in WW2.
PERIOD

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: noeltrotsky

This ceremony is ONLY about those that fought and/or died in WW2.
PERIOD

So why did Putin invite Kim Jong-un??? I don't remember N.Korea fighting in Europe, but maybe you can tell me why.

www.kmbc.com...

a reply to: noeltrotsky

So that he can pay his respects.
second line

originally posted by: Fingle
Has this Proxy war really ever ended and will it ever?

Sailors of H. M. S. London who fought at Inkerman (1854)
Sebastopol in the Crimea was the great Russian naval arsenal on the Black Sea. A combined assault by British, French and Turkish troops resulted in the reduction of Sebastopol and led to the Treaty of Paris of 27 April 1856, guaranteeing the independence of the Ottoman Empire. By Admiralty Order the Crimea Medal was awarded to sailors and marines present during the campaign, between 17 September 1854 (the first landing at Eupatoria) and 9 September 1855 (when the allies secured Sebastopol). Her Majesty's Ship London, a 90-gun sailing ship, took part in the assault. Four clasps to this medal were awarded to the men present in the actions at Sebastopol itself, Inkerman, Balaklave (Balaclava) and (the sea of) Azoff. This is the roll for the sailors of the ship actually present at the battle of Inkerman, on 5 November 1854, where the Russian troops made an ultimately unsuccessful attack on the allied army.

www.theoriginalrecord.com...

After what the west has been doing to Russia lately, I agree that western leaders are afraid to go... because they are embarrassed. Imagine if there were any footage of western leaders out in the Russian public. Then we would see how much dislike the Russian PEOPLE have for the west thanks to grossly hypocritical sanctions imposed by the their allies and fellow world superpowers.

Lets see if any US media show up and uses the opportunity to get any reports from Putin-suppressed Russians that they can use back in the US to help the 'Hate Russia' campaign. Though something tells me they already know they are not going to get what they are looking for.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The trouble with Putin, he's created a Russia that could very well end up in confrontation . At the stage of the game that he is at, he needs war and rumours of war to maintain an iron grip. Just like Lil Kim, If no country will take him on, he will cause crisis after crisis. If their hasn't been a silent coup. and at present we are just getting fed B^&%$# then look out for some sort of challenging statements. So he can up the security and stifle opposition. He should remember, the West has a history of going to war with Dictators. www.haaretz.com... If it looks like that he could personally end up in a hole like Saddam , then he has nothing to loose.