America and the Mirror of Rome

Olympus is falling...

originally posted by: MentorsRiddle
I joined ATS several years ago. Throughout the years I have seen a tumult of ideology surge through different threads, ranging from outlandish topics declaring Hitler as a misunderstood good guy to bigfoot being an alien species.

One of my favorite subjects that I occasionally run across here deals with history.

As a history buff I have always found it interesting how past events can parallel the present era. As the old saying goes: Those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

While this ominous warning is often taken very lightly by the majority of the population who believe history is something you learn in school and then forget, it’s near prophetic words are not to be ignored.

In a way this is my first conspiracy theory post, which I have pondered on for many years.

If you were to ask any good historian why the Roman Empire fell from power you would undoubtedly get several different responses, ranging from political turmoil to unsustainable power. But you would most certainly get several similar answers, which are undisputed by the majority of reputable historians throughout the world.


Reason One

The primary reason for the fall of Rome is hotly debated within historical circles. But it is agreed by many people that the most likely reason for the fall of such a powerful empire began from the degradation of one of the most fundamental foundations of any society: morality.

Because the morality of Rome became so undefined towards its end, a number of social structures were being affected – the number one being family life.

When the family began to break apart in Rome, defined ethics and morality began to decline with it.

Unarguably, when reflecting on American values the traditional family structure is clearly being broken apart by immorality and unethical behavior. Corruption on the highest levels of government are promoting this, while rewarding behavior that works against a well-structured society.


Reason Two

Political corruption is another reason for the fall of such a mighty empire. Political factions had their own agendas, serving their own needs while ignoring the will of the people.

This parallel is extremely obvious when observing American political leaders in office today – ranging from the run of the mill congressional servant to the highest levels of office.

A wise man once said a house divided cannot stand – a truth that speaks volumes.


Reason Three

Continuous wars began to take its toll on the Roman population. People were getting tired of it until their will to fight began to falter.

Over time Rome was stretched to its breaking point and the empire’s people were in a state of apathy. This allowed a super-power to be defeated by simple barbarians, who later would divide the empire completely.

America too has fought wars since its birth. Now the people are starting to become apathetic like the Roman citizens of old.


Reason Four

Because of cheap slave labor and cheap workers from foreign lands, the middle class of Rome began to be pushed into poverty – which is part of the reasons the family life began to degrade.

Eventually a middle class in Rome was virtually non-existent. Taxes stopped flowing in, the military began follow the coin where it was available, and the empire began to see its first fractures in its stability.

If we look at America today we can see a similar event happening. While we no longer have slave labor, employers are paying less and less, immigrants from foreign countries (legal and illegal) are bidding for jobs at much lower pay, while the middle class (the ones who arguably form the foundation of the country) are beginning to break apart.

Eventually only the elite were able to hold seats of power, which again is beginning to be paralleled in America. If you don’t have money to run for office, you might as well turn belly up and quit.


The Conspiracy

Natural disasters, mob mentality, and other reasons also lead to the fall of Rome. But none are more important that the primary four I have listed above.

It would appear to me that those in power today are very aware of the state of the American nation. But their selfish desires and non-compassionate views towards the people of this nation is leading towards America’s fall.

A lack of loyalty to the people of this nation allows our political leaders to sell us down river, while assuring their seats of power.

I cannot help but think these people know exactly what they are doing – and want to degrade the American people so much to the point where we are ready to break. This will ensure that we can never rise up in power to defend ourselves, or take back what belongs to us…. Freedom.

If we as a people continue to ignore the lessons of history, give in to our immoral urges, and don’t begin to use the voices we were given – then like Rome, we will fade into the ashes of history as another failed civilization….

I might agree with you except for your point one.

As a historical student and social scientist, as well as a professional in international development, I would be willing to be that there is no "scientific study" nor even peer-reviewed document in history supporting that the decline in morality and the family unit was causal in Rome's fall.

Remember, correlation does NOT equal causality. Can you show evidence (not conjecture and religious statements by moralists) of this claim? Yes, I have heard and seen this argument, but never has it come form a social science nor historical source that was credible. Most likely, even if your claim to denigration of family and morality is true, it is most likely simply itself an effect of whatever truly caused the fall. The true cause (or causes) are what is called "lurking" or "confounding variables," responsible for BOTH the fall of Rome AND fall in morality/family, hence creating a correlation but false connection between the two.

Social science 101.

Pay attention to propaganda. Compare and contrast, then and now.





If unfamiliar with this ATS thread in relation to this OP: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

If your first argument is that theres an obvious parallel between the fall of Rome and America allowing judges to issue marriage certificates to same sex couples who want a stable monogamous partner and even raise children then youre a moron. Somewhat eloquent yet no ability to use logic at a laughable and humiliating level. Forgive me if this isnt what your vague reference meant and if thats the case im sure you can understand and forgive my reaming you. Note to everyone: this is the type of post with behavior that is ridiculous to see on a supposed intelligent forum but after seeing the effects this attitude has on kids for a decade in a professional setting, Im done letting this bull go without calling the poster out since its just plain child abuse amongst other things.

AlexandrosTheGreat....

What I quoted above is all I managed to read of your wall of text.

Believe it or not there is more to morality than where people choose to place their genitals. There is drugs, pornography, work ethic, and a whole host of other things that can contribute to the decay of family life.

Not only did you assume I was talking about homosexual unions, but you proceeded to take that assumption and go on a rant about your opinion.

Ask yourself this - if you are so comfortable with your sexuality, or viewpoint, why do you feel the need to completely fly off the handle at a vague post on the internet which might hint at the idea of same sex union being negative? That isn't even the main point of my post.

I know you apologized in your opening comments in case you were wrong - but then go on to continue bashing, which leads me to believe your apology wasn't even thought out - but simply put there to cover your butt in case you were wrong.

While I accept your apology, even though I don't think you meant it, you need to do some serious soul searching and find out where your security is.

Even if same sex marriage was what I was talking about - a random strangers musings on the internet shouldn't be such a big earth shattering event for you that you totally lose your cool and go on a rant bashing people for having a different viewpoint than you.

There are billions of people in this world who disagree with your viewpoint. The sooner you learn to be happy with your opinions, despite other peoples' opinions, the happier you will become.